Fulfilling Forged Prophecies
A reader left a good comment on my post about Benedict XVI fulfilling the Gloria Olivae portion of St. Malachy’s Papal Prophecy. I’d brought up the fact that some scholars believe this prophecy is actually forged, but that this doesn’t make much difference to people. The commenter wrote in response:
Even if the St. Malachy prophecy is a hoax from 1600’s, don’t you find it odd that current popes fit the descriptions of the hoax? Are you suggesting Popes are elected and/or take names which fulfill a forged prophecy?
Of course I find it “odd” or I wouldn’t have spent so much time researching and writing about it. I’m of the opinion at this point though, that whether or not it was forged, it’s still pretty damned interesting. I follow the creed laid out by Jacques Vallee with regard to the investigation of weird phenomena: that your responsibility is first and foremost to look at how real people are affected by this, rather than worry about whether it is objectively provable. What I mean by that is whether or not it’s a hoax doesn’t matter to me. It’s still been followed for hundreds of years - perhaps now more than ever. Just because something is a fiction doesn’t preclude it from having factual effects on people’s lives.
I’m not a scholar and thus am in no position to prove or disprove the authenticity of Malachy’s prophecy. What I can do though is look at different sides of it, and consider the implications. Perhaps the most interesting scenario of all is if it really is fake, but that people since then have been trying to make it real. A reader named ‘crasspastor‘ in another comment wrote:
Keep in mind too, that nobody ever said the book of Revelation and other biblical prophecies couldn’t be self fulfilling.
Consider for a moment that this is true. That what originally started as a form of Apocalyptic protest literature, was later seized upon by people in power to establish their own legitimacy. By playing upon the fear and superstition of works like the Book of Revelations, people in power are actually intentionally trying to push our centuries-long programmed buttons.
The other more rational possibility to consider is that none of the “reasoning” behind the fulfillment of prophecies usually makes a lot of sense. Let’s use the connective line between Malachy and Benedict XVI as an example. The only thing “Malachy” ever said was “De Gloria Olivae” - the Glory of the Olives. This in itself is essentially meaningless. It’s the equivalent of me going into a trance and saying “Shoe Underwear Rocket” and having this be a prediction about what stock will be popular in 20 years on the market.
Now, if I was a trusted source, people would spend 20 years scouring over companies which might meet this pronouncement. The question is, how did Malachy become a trusted source? This is where the forgery comes into play. Supposedly Malachy gave this prophecy in the 12th century directly to the Pope himself. But nobody mentioned this in Malachy’s biography written some years after his life. In fact, this list of popes didn’t come out until over 400 years later. By this time, Malachy’s list had retroactively prophesied popes who had already come and gone. But the initial retroactive set of his predictions were not at all as vague as the ones after that. They were in fact quite clear and obvious correlations to the names and deeds of the popes who’d come in the intervening 400 years. Thus, Malachy’s prophecies became a “trusted source.” To use my analogy above, all I would have to do is to put together a list of all my stock market “prophecies” - basing it solely on the matter of historical record. If I could fake like I predicted these way before it happened, it would make my “Shoe Underwear Rocket” gambit seem much more plausible because I’d been “right” so far.
What happened after Malachy’s prophecy was released in the 1600’s is that it supported the Jesuit favorite for the papacy. Don’t have who that was in front of me, but the info’s out there. Presumably, once that worked out, people kept the prophecy on the back burner, looking for correlations to all the popes who came after that. The weird part, of course, is how many of them seem to be “proven” right by history. Like John Paul II being “De Labore Solis” and his birth and funeral coinciding with eclipses of the sun. This begs the question of whether or not there’s something really to them. Or, are we just really damned good at finding correlations when we want to, but really awesome at overlooking obvious ones when we don’t want to (ie, George Bush stolen elections; government foreknowledge of 9/11, etc).
UPDATE!
Comments by the reader below reminded me of a point I neglected to write about above. The connection between Malachy and Benedict XVI is even more tenuous than described above. Besides the possible forgery, let’s look at the other connection. The Benedictine monks have been saying (for an undisclosed period of time) that “De Gloria Olivae” would come from their order. The reason being that they or a faction of them are sometimes called Olivetans, by somebody somewhere. Now that Natzinger has chosen the name Benedict, everybody’s (okay, well, not everybody) going nuts because this somehow “fulfills the prophecy.” But does it really? Benedict himself is not actually OF the Benedictine order, nor has any other plausible connection to olives been put forth yet. Even if he WAS of the Benedictine order, what does that prove? Does it prove the Malachy’s “Shoe Underwear Rocket” prophecy is correct, or does it prove they had a secret hand in the election of the pope, or does it prove none of these things at all?
Personally, I don’t see anything as being “merely” coincidental. Just look back at the article I wrote recently on the Kabbalah and synchronicity. I think what we DO need to realize though is that prophecy does not function according to “logical” standards. To say Malachy therefore Benedictines therefore Ratzinger is not a logically consistent or provable statement. This doesn’t mean it doesn’t have worth though, because it does. It’s an example of the non-rational connective networking style of thinking. I think it’s actually much more powerful than rationalism at times for unearthing archetypal and unconscious material - but it’s not logical. And it’s not a replacement to logical thinking. They complement each other. Now that we have logic, let’s use it, and let’s combine both styles together conscientiously and with fun and freedom as our purpose.




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April 20th, 2005 at 3:17 pm
I wanted to say that I just happened across this site a few days ago at a point in my life where I’m really wrestling with religion and faith as both authentic and constructed experiences, and I’m really into the things you’ve been saying on this site about religious experience being socially constructed, and particularly in this article the maxim that the authenticity of the document (in this case, the prophecy) is less relevant than the impact it has on the lives of believers. It’s just really awesome.
To be cynical for a moment, you have to wonder to what extent some of these things are purposely exploited by the Catholic church. The almost-eerily fitting designations of the last two popes have a lot to do with external factors that may or may not be mystical in origin, but so far the only real evidence that there is for Rottweiler being Gloria Olivae is that he chose the name Benedict, and the Benedictines believed this pope would come from their order. Was he a Benedictine, though? I believe not. So all the “coincidence” so far is a name that he chose, or was chosen for him, through some method concealed from the general public.
One of the themes of the Christian apocalypse is that it’s more or less unpredictable, and Christians have to constantly be on their guard that it could happen any moment, and not let their beliefs or their faith slip in case tomorrow is the day it happens. But as time goes on and the apocalypse doesn’t happen, the urgency slips, and the paranoid reinforcement of religious fervor relaxes. In a time of crisis for the church, when they want to reinvigorate the faithful and bring them back in line, it seems like a useful tactic to find ways to keep that urgency going. Any Catholic that knows of the prophecy–and if there’s one thing that Catholics are good at, it’s knowing when the apocalypse is going to happen–is going to latch onto these signs and take them as reminders that they need to get their affairs in order in case it’s really going to go down this time.
And even if it’s not a deliberate political exploitation by the church, it could still as easily be a conscious factor in the decision-making process. If Rottweiler knows the prophecy and knows where he’d ostensibly fall into it, and he more or less believes in it, then he might feel the need to abide by it in his own way.
April 20th, 2005 at 3:27 pm
hey thanks for your comments. im happy that youre connecting with the stuff im talking about.
if you want to look at the church intentionally exploiting “prophetic” material, look no farther than the marian apparitions at fatima. i personally find it pretty much impossible to believe that the virgin mary herself would descend from the sky in order to tell three shepherd children that russia was evil. it makes no damn sense at all.
April 20th, 2005 at 4:31 pm
Very interesting reading your comments. Perhaps we all lead ourselves into fulfilling prophecies by what we read. I’m sure you get many replies to this site regarding peoples own opinions. Well mine is that if the Bible is truth (which I believe is) then the second coming is drawing nigh. I have looked at many prohecies regarding Christs return and there is none that I am aware of that predicted His return after 2010 (hmmm) I personally don’t believe it will be before then, however as stated in the Bible “no man knoweth the day nor the hour when the Son of Man cometh.” I beleive its soon, but then again how soon is soon. The fact of the matter is are we ready to meet Him (Just food for thought).
April 21st, 2005 at 1:32 am
[…] Hm, debunk Malachy’s prophecies… I suppose you are refering to my post “Fulfilling Forged Prophecies” or the post on which that was base […]
April 24th, 2005 at 3:52 pm
To add a pennysworth… the cardinals voted for the wrong man. Had they followed the prophecies of Malachi and Nostradamus and a few others, Lustiger would have been chosen because he
alone is a Parisian and was once a Jew. The jewish connection, which Ratzi doesn’t have, is necessary because ‘Gloria Olivae’ enotes a jewish connection- the olive being the symbol of the Jews as well as the Olivetans. Lustiger has an Olivetan connection- Ratzi does not. This can only be redeemed by Ratzi using his position to bring about a Jewish-Catholic rapprochement, unlikely as it may seem today. Otherwise, his taking the name of Benedict is meaningless or just an attempt to portray himself as the right man. His election was hasty and may not be allowed to stand- you can guess how. It depends what h says and if his war record stands up to scrutiny. It appears the timeline is false or concocted as are his weak excuses. Some blogs say that he cashes in his chips before WW3, assumed to commence in 2012. What that Mayan date has to do with anything beats me… it has never been accurately checked or verified. One dumb believer copies from the last. In fact, WW3 starts in 2007 as several sites will inform you.. just search WW3 2007 and see for yourself. Coincidentally or not, the Catholic church is defunct about 2012 but only resurrects itself to inflict more lies and evil than it has managed in the 2000 years to date. One more event for your consideration… WW4 starts 2043. I first saw tht written down in 1982 but you go check the sources for yourself, if you can. That’s 5the real Armageddon when 1/3 of the world’s population dies. Dinna ye fash yeselves aboot Ratzi, ye ken?
May 28th, 2005 at 2:40 pm
[…] r to break out in Jerusalem, ushering in the coming wrath of God. As we talked about in my Fulfilling Forged Prophecies article: […] Nobody ever said the […]
October 1st, 2005 at 12:35 pm
[…] to check). Really though, this is an integral component of how prophecies work. From the papal prophecies of Malachy to the Biblical Book of Daniel, the vast m […]
June 8th, 2006 at 11:53 am
[…] Fulfilling Forged Prophecies […]