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	<title>Comments on: The Traditional Latin Mass</title>
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	<pubDate>Sun, 22 Nov 2009 18:35:58 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Bill</title>
		<link>http://www.timboucher.com/journal/2005/04/24/the-traditional-latin-mass/comment-page-1/#comment-433</link>
		<dc:creator>Bill</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Apr 2005 02:38:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.timboucher.com/journal/2005/04/24/the-traditional-latin-mass/#comment-433</guid>
		<description>I am pretty sure that the Old Testament was written in Ancient Hebrew and the New Testament in Greek.  I've read (don't remember where) that in some ways the New Order of the Mass is supposed to be more traditional (stripping out rituals that have creeped in over decades if not centuries), despite other changes (which some obviously regard as very significant) such as use of vernacular languages and altar girls.  


Apparently, according to some articles I've read, documents of the Vatican II were written in such a way that one can support either the idea of the Vatican II "staying the course" or "promoting liberal reform" (or something like that). See URL below.

Regarding Ratzinger's experiences, such as under National Socialist Germany:

"Only by grasping this core conviction, that slavery begins when power dislodges truth, is it possible to understand how Ratzingerâ€™s supporters can insist he has not been a repressive force."

The Vaticanâ€™s enforcer by  JOHN L. ALLEN JR. NCR staff
http://www.natcath.com/NCR_Online/archives/041699/041699a.htm


And I'd agree that he is the best chance we have right now of Hell breaking out between for example the West (Christianity and secularism) and the East (Islam) or U.S. (of America, not Mexico (although Mexico could become the 52nd state after Israel)) vs. an alliance such as between Venezuela, Russia, China, India, and Brazil.

Not sure what to make of it:

If America dares to attack Venezuela, every supertanker approaching the American southern oil terminals will be sunk by Mach 2.9 missiles by Joe Vialls http://www.vheadline.com/readnews.asp?id=29045</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am pretty sure that the Old Testament was written in Ancient Hebrew and the New Testament in Greek.  I&#8217;ve read (don&#8217;t remember where) that in some ways the New Order of the Mass is supposed to be more traditional (stripping out rituals that have creeped in over decades if not centuries), despite other changes (which some obviously regard as very significant) such as use of vernacular languages and altar girls.  </p>
<p>Apparently, according to some articles I&#8217;ve read, documents of the Vatican II were written in such a way that one can support either the idea of the Vatican II &#8220;staying the course&#8221; or &#8220;promoting liberal reform&#8221; (or something like that). See URL below.</p>
<p>Regarding Ratzinger&#8217;s experiences, such as under National Socialist Germany:</p>
<p>&#8220;Only by grasping this core conviction, that slavery begins when power dislodges truth, is it possible to understand how Ratzingerâ€™s supporters can insist he has not been a repressive force.&#8221;</p>
<p>The Vaticanâ€™s enforcer by  JOHN L. ALLEN JR. NCR staff<br />
<a href="http://www.natcath.com/NCR_Online/archives/041699/041699a.htm" rel="nofollow"></a><a href='http://www.natcath.com/NCR_Online/archives/041699/041699a.htm'>http://www.natcath.com/NCR_Online/archives/041699/041699a.htm</a></p>
<p>And I&#8217;d agree that he is the best chance we have right now of Hell breaking out between for example the West (Christianity and secularism) and the East (Islam) or U.S. (of America, not Mexico (although Mexico could become the 52nd state after Israel)) vs. an alliance such as between Venezuela, Russia, China, India, and Brazil.</p>
<p>Not sure what to make of it:</p>
<p>If America dares to attack Venezuela, every supertanker approaching the American southern oil terminals will be sunk by Mach 2.9 missiles by Joe Vialls <a href="http://www.vheadline.com/readnews.asp?id=29045" rel="nofollow"></a><a href='http://www.vheadline.com/readnews.asp?id=29045'>http://www.vheadline.com/readnews.asp?id=29045</a></p>
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		<title>By: J. Puma</title>
		<link>http://www.timboucher.com/journal/2005/04/24/the-traditional-latin-mass/comment-page-1/#comment-399</link>
		<dc:creator>J. Puma</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 25 Apr 2005 16:47:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.timboucher.com/journal/2005/04/24/the-traditional-latin-mass/#comment-399</guid>
		<description>we use a few latin phrases in our mass at the eg (though it's mostly in english), and it's almost certainly for the reason campbell gives.  it's about creating &#38; instilling a sense of mystery &#38; timelessness.      

ever read 'the chaldean oracles'?  

http://www.anunnaki.org/library/oracles.php

they're basically a condensed myth-system for roman era theurgists, and they address the issue:

"Never change the barbarous names;
For there are names in every nation given from god,
Which have unspeakable power in rites."

Iamblichus says the same thing in "On the Mysteries."  </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>we use a few latin phrases in our mass at the eg (though it&#8217;s mostly in english), and it&#8217;s almost certainly for the reason campbell gives.  it&#8217;s about creating &amp; instilling a sense of mystery &amp; timelessness.      </p>
<p>ever read &#8216;the chaldean oracles&#8217;?  </p>
<p><a href="http://www.anunnaki.org/library/oracles.php" rel="nofollow"></a><a href='http://www.anunnaki.org/library/oracles.php'>http://www.anunnaki.org/library/oracles.php</a></p>
<p>they&#8217;re basically a condensed myth-system for roman era theurgists, and they address the issue:</p>
<p>&#8220;Never change the barbarous names;<br />
For there are names in every nation given from god,<br />
Which have unspeakable power in rites.&#8221;</p>
<p>Iamblichus says the same thing in &#8220;On the Mysteries.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Ran</title>
		<link>http://www.timboucher.com/journal/2005/04/24/the-traditional-latin-mass/comment-page-1/#comment-378</link>
		<dc:creator>Ran</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 24 Apr 2005 15:34:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.timboucher.com/journal/2005/04/24/the-traditional-latin-mass/#comment-378</guid>
		<description>"...which is more out-dated: a medieval hierarchical religious system based on fear and guilt..."

Hierarchy and fear are not outdated! In many ways they are now at their peak. Unequal distribution of wealth and the rule of "experts" are two forms of hierarchy that are worse now than ever, and contemporary Americans are the biggest fear-worshippers of all time. I hope I live long enough to see this shit outdated.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;&#8230;which is more out-dated: a medieval hierarchical religious system based on fear and guilt&#8230;&#8221;</p>
<p>Hierarchy and fear are not outdated! In many ways they are now at their peak. Unequal distribution of wealth and the rule of &#8220;experts&#8221; are two forms of hierarchy that are worse now than ever, and contemporary Americans are the biggest fear-worshippers of all time. I hope I live long enough to see this shit outdated.</p>
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		<title>By: Tom Harrison</title>
		<link>http://www.timboucher.com/journal/2005/04/24/the-traditional-latin-mass/comment-page-1/#comment-377</link>
		<dc:creator>Tom Harrison</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 24 Apr 2005 13:25:43 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>I'd always supposed that it was part of the whole "catholic" thing; That the mass was in Latin so that all Christians everywhere were saying and hearing the same thing. Maybe over time it evoloved into a mechanism to exclude the laiety, but if that were the case then Latin wouldn't have been so agressively taught in school. 

In my small town, people said it didn't make any difference when they switched from Latin to English. The Priest had such a thick German accent that nobody could understand him anyway. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;d always supposed that it was part of the whole &#8220;catholic&#8221; thing; That the mass was in Latin so that all Christians everywhere were saying and hearing the same thing. Maybe over time it evoloved into a mechanism to exclude the laiety, but if that were the case then Latin wouldn&#8217;t have been so agressively taught in school. </p>
<p>In my small town, people said it didn&#8217;t make any difference when they switched from Latin to English. The Priest had such a thick German accent that nobody could understand him anyway.</p>
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		<title>By: crasspastor</title>
		<link>http://www.timboucher.com/journal/2005/04/24/the-traditional-latin-mass/comment-page-1/#comment-374</link>
		<dc:creator>crasspastor</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 24 Apr 2005 07:06:24 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Nail meet head.  Yep.  If it was only until the 1960's that the RCC finally allowed mass to be held in local vernacular, one must suspect that anything they do today is geared toward something to the same shortsighted effect.

Perhaps the RCC took the enlightenment as embodied in the western liberal revolution of the 1960's and 70's seriously.  The US, where they had stacked all their corporate cards went down hard in Vietnam, as far as reputation and opinion go, thus causing them to tuck their tail and fortify what they knew they had.  Now, we're seeing a follow the leader routine that leads everybody straight into the abyss of unthreatened empire as there does not seem to be any form of revolution outside of South America.

However, once the force that does rise to take it on does, I think we will quickly find it is nothing any of us will want anything to do with.  The polarized paradigms will simply be too confusing and aggressive, making any middle ground impossible.

</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nail meet head.  Yep.  If it was only until the 1960&#8217;s that the RCC finally allowed mass to be held in local vernacular, one must suspect that anything they do today is geared toward something to the same shortsighted effect.</p>
<p>Perhaps the RCC took the enlightenment as embodied in the western liberal revolution of the 1960&#8217;s and 70&#8217;s seriously.  The US, where they had stacked all their corporate cards went down hard in Vietnam, as far as reputation and opinion go, thus causing them to tuck their tail and fortify what they knew they had.  Now, we&#8217;re seeing a follow the leader routine that leads everybody straight into the abyss of unthreatened empire as there does not seem to be any form of revolution outside of South America.</p>
<p>However, once the force that does rise to take it on does, I think we will quickly find it is nothing any of us will want anything to do with.  The polarized paradigms will simply be too confusing and aggressive, making any middle ground impossible.</p>
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