23 Reader Responses

1. alistair Says:
   June 12th, 2005 at 2:50 pm

   i don`t think it`s racism.nobody forces these people into grass skirts.do we put white people in there for fear of being racist?it`s a job.it`s like the feminists saying that strippers and port actresses are being exploited.wrong.it`s a consensus between entertainer and consumer.if there is a racist amongst us it`s jesse jackson and that farakhan chap.they are telling people what the behaviours and motives are before we can draw our own conclusions,whether we are black,white or striped.it will come to a point where it becomes exploitative to expect people in school to get marks and people with jobs to do work.the racism at work here is in the mind of the person making the comment.
   the subtext of german culture was telling also.
   mindyou it was a dumbass idea considering the political climate of moral indignation and such.who in modern society wants to keep animals in captivity?

2. scott rassbach Says:
   June 12th, 2005 at 4:21 pm

   You say nobody forces them to do this job.

   However, in Germany, if you’re unemployed, and refuse a job offer for which you are qualified, you lose your benefits, and I’m told it’s quite difficult to either regain the beneifts or get hired once this happens. There’s been a big fight over this policy, and the fact that the sex industry (pornographers and prostitution houses) can offer their jobs through the unemployment office.

   So, it is possible that they’re being ‘forced’ to work for the zoo, with the loss of their safety net being the stick.

3. alistair Says:
   June 12th, 2005 at 5:36 pm

   yes,that can be assumed but that line of assumption leads to hitler reborn.it is laughable to suggest that a society advocates the ridicule and humiliation of people in such a way.i would be embarassed to wear a mcdonald`s hat or greet people at wal-mart,especially if i was a retired person but there is no conspiracy to ridicule seniors that way,or me,for that matter.our collective skins need to be just a little thicker,because if not we are prey to all sorts of opinion manipulation.vegitarianism,feminism,environmentalism…………tools for manipulation.and racism too.

4. rhondda Says:
   June 12th, 2005 at 5:41 pm

   A while ago, I heard that in Germany, women were forced into prostitution because it was legal there and if you refused, you got cut off your benefits. There was alot of chatter about this, but it turned out that it was a bit of a myth. However, on another level, if you are desperate for work and you qualify, I can certainly see a pressure to do it, just to get away from the degrading way wefare recipients are treated. What is the difference between exploting yourself or someone else exploiting you? It gets relabelled entrepreneurship. “Miss Candy” is here for your pleasure or “I have this chick I call Miss Candy and she will do anything”. Same thing can be relabelled for African Culture. Are you teaching about the culture or are you being exploited for someone else’s benefit.
   On another level, just who is in the zoo?

5. alistair Says:
   June 12th, 2005 at 7:42 pm

   from the intergalactic proctologists standpoint we all are.

6. rhondda Says:
   June 12th, 2005 at 7:59 pm

   That’s good and I am going to steal it for my next circle argument.!

7. carlos Says:
   June 13th, 2005 at 1:01 am

   the problem here isn’t racism.

   it’s that zoos are not seen as the barbaric torture chambers they are. it’s that we think we can experience life by proxy. it’s that we mistake the representation for the real thing. it’s that we play god with the lives of others.

   “racism” distracts us from the real issues, as it was designed to.

   captivity is profoundly cruel and stupid, and to pretend that exploitation only occurs when there is a socially acceptable “victim” stereotype involved is just typical of the idiocy of this fucked up planet.

   free the elephants and rhinos!

   then nobody has to dance around in a grass skirt for a pittance, black skin or not.

   and anyone who wants to experience the “genuine exotic ambience” of africa can fucking go there. lazy pricks.

8. alistair Says:
   June 13th, 2005 at 10:11 am

   yep,well said.vicarious experience is lazy and expensive.it is urban behaviour,for the most part,people living in glass towers,who,for the most part go from elevator to car to office to restaurant and home.there`s nothing wrong with this.it`s merely that millions of people live this way and thier view is supported by the media and is represented by environmentalism(of course you would think there`s no green space left if you lived that way)feminism,vegitarianism,racism,etc.
   the suburban/rural view is vastly different.we cook our own meals.have lawns and hills and farms close by…….artistically arranged.(who is that landscaper?)and we are closer to the rhythmn of animals that nest in our back yards.the raccoon fights are noisy,to say the least.
   zoos are part of the consumerist spasm.and a means for selling global politics.wwf,for instance would be nothing without the marketing of zoos.it is delivered right into the classroom and sold to six yearolds.

9. J. Puma Says:
   June 13th, 2005 at 12:49 pm

   i fuckin’ love zoos.

   they get a bad rep among certain sets for being all ‘evil’ and ‘barbaric torture chambers’ and whatnot, which was true in the nineteenth century and might be true in different nations, but generally speaking, they’re pretty good here in the u.s.

   if it weren’t for zoos, 99.9% of the population of our insular consumer culture wouldn’t give two shits about, or have the opportunity to experience, the diversity of animal life on this planet. i know i, for one, wouldn’t have half of the appreciation i do for animals (i frickin’ *love* animals) if it weren’t for zoos.

   i’ll admit that it sucks that they have to keep animals captive in order to teach people these lessons, but better an animal survives in captivity than goes extinct in the wild because nobody’s ever seen it so they decide to kill it. if it weren’t for zoos, the ‘great white hunter’ would still roam the savannahs.

   seattle has an incredible zoo. my fiance was an animal-rights activist and was hesitant to go, but she came out a convert when she saw how awesome it was.

   if you wanna talk about evils of animal captivity, direct your ire at circuses, or at people who abuse pet dogs and cats. zoo animals have it about a zillion times better than your average ghetto pit bull.

   as to whether this black person thing is racist, it certainly is! i can’t stand this whole ‘oh, it’s not racism, it’s . . . ‘ mentality among the conspiracy set. they’re hiring *black* people, therefore it’s *racism*. if they were hiring white people to portray tribal members, too (and there’s no reason not to– we all come from the same tribal background) then it wouldn’t be racist. but, they’re not. so it’s racist. and fucked-up.

   it’s been done before, in eugenics-crazy america. i have a post on it here:

   http://www.snant.com/fp/2003_09_07_archive.html#106322205011913280

10. Occult Investigator Says:
    June 13th, 2005 at 1:08 pm

    yes, thank god. i thought i was going crazy. THIS IS OBVIOUSLY RACIST, PEOPLE.

11. J. Puma Says:
    June 13th, 2005 at 1:59 pm

    it’s like that bill hicks routine where he talks about ‘basic instinct,’ that stupid sharon stone movie:

    “But you know I saw this movie this year called last year called er, ‘Basic Instinct’. Okay now. Bill’s quick capsule review: Piece-of-Shit. Okay now. Yeah, yeah, end of story by the way. Don’t get caught up in that fevered hype phoney fucking debate about that Piece-of-Shit movie. “Is it too sexist, and what about the movies, are they becoming too dddddddd.” You’re, you’re just confused, you don’t get, you’ve forgotten how to judge correctly. Take a deep breath huuh, look at it again. “Oh it’s a Piece-of-Shit!” Exactly, that’s all it is. Satan squatted, let out a loaf, they put a fucking title on it, put it on a marquee, Satan’s shit, piece of shit, walk away. “But is it too, what about the lesbian connot.. ddddd.” You’re, you’re getting really baffled here. Piece-of-Shit! Now walk away. That’s all it is, it’s nothing more! Free yourself folks, if you see it, Piece-of-Shit, say it and walk away. You’re right! You’re right! Not those fuckers who want to tell you how to think! You’re fucking right!”

    this is racist, that’s all, end of story. any further prevaricating is an error in judgement. racist! that’s all it is! walk away!

12. alistair Says:
    June 13th, 2005 at 4:18 pm

    there are people who are so overbought in this blame game that they call all white people racists by default.how does one walk away from that.
    and i always thought that basic instinct was an infomercial for sharon stone`s bucket.
    we are all being held hostage by the actions of the big business interests of the slave trade of the 19th century,who by the way traded in white,black,yellow………anyone who they could buy and sell.those here now are not slaves,but are being told they are.for fun and profit.we are all still slaves in the feudal/corporate world.shackled by the visa card.
    noam chomskey asks us to find a definition for the term terrorist.he is,after all,a proffesor of linguistics.so let`s do that with the term racist.we discover it a slippery and elusive term to define.it becomes a linguistic hand grenade,tossed lightly into a discussion to blow the limbs off our ability to resolve issues through thought.
    i have a friend who just happens to be blek.he`s worth a couple of million.he owns a mutual fund company.he knows it`s a game.he`s too busy earning money and driving his bentley.he likes to wear his bozo the clown t-shirt too.he`s a musician,like me and we are both pure and happy jamming.though there are those who may find elements of exploitation in that to.i can`t go everywhere he goes and he`d like to have more time to jam.such is life.

13. Carnacki Says:
    June 14th, 2005 at 12:58 am

    I maintain the reunification of Germany wasn’t necessarily a good thing for global peace.

14. alistair Says:
    June 14th, 2005 at 9:00 am

    how about the destablisation of the middle east?or how we don`t know much about india,the country with the largest middle class in the world.and what does germany have to do with the tribal conflicts in africa,a continent of constant war?contrary to liberal opinion,i think that democracy is the antidote to war.it stabilises economies,allows human rights and limits tribal hostility.it`s not magic though.it took america a hundred years of intense shooting war to finally sign papers.
    the seperation of germany wasn`t to stop future conflicts.it was to carve up the spoils of war between the americans and the russians.once the soviet union dissolved then the reunification was a matter of course.the new russia had niether the resourses nor the inclination to support a cold war barrier any longer.
    global peace will happen when eveyone starts listening to bono…..i mean,when all the humans are gone.

15. Yasha Says:
    June 14th, 2005 at 4:07 pm

    Here in Seattle, the Woodland Park Zoo has an African Village exhibit. It’s not peopled like they’re planning in Germany. It’s a group of buildings with a classroom and some artifact displays, intended to be a context from which to view the African Savannah section.

    “The Village’s primary message is that East Africa is a complex
    environment, combining elements of the ancient and modern,
    where humans and animals live in increasingly close proximity.
    In the Village, visitors might feel as though they have experienced
    a day in the life of East Africa.”

    Well, okay, that sounds educational. But it strikes me as insulting to have this as the only such cultural exhibit in a zoological garden. (”We have elephants, orangutans, snow leopards and an African village.”) If the whole park was an integrated cultural / zoological exhibit showing how people around the world live alongside animals, then I would find it a lot more acceptable.

    What would be cool would be a “North American city” environment with possums, raccoons, pigeons, squirrels, crows and cockroaches. And feral bunnies, like we have in the park right next to the zoo.

16. Yasha Says:
    June 14th, 2005 at 4:10 pm

    … and rats. I forgot rats. I’d love to see an alley with swarms of rats.

17. Occult Investigator Says:
    June 14th, 2005 at 4:27 pm

    man, thats a great idea and an excellent point, yasha. it would be really cool to have an exhibit about animals that are right alongside us but we just ignore. it could include also robins and pigeons and dogs and cats.

18. alistair Says:
    June 14th, 2005 at 6:19 pm

    kinda redundant though.i used to love a visit to the zoo,back before it was an indoctrination into politics.i remember donating money to the toronto zoo to help brum the tiger,an albino. a mighty proud beast who needed an operation on his paw.so i gave a couple of dollars.i love tigers.simple simple.wrong.i discovered that i`d given money to the wwf.(not the wrestlers.)for years after that i got mail from them asking for money for thier next whatever.i thought i was helping a specific tiger that i`d had a conversation with during my visit to the zoo.
    i was wrong.
    by the way we have bunnies and foxes and raccoons(noisy pricks)and hawks and doves and the like right out on my back deck in suburbia.my boys and i sit on the couch and watch the woodland creatures right up close.it`s nice.
    i have this enduring fantasy that i could sit with a tiger and have a chat,much like i do with my housecats and have him nod contentedly.it would fill me up in a meaningful way but i know the tiger.i`m food,or at least the means to getting food.period.everything else is something i created in my mind.
    these are wild creatures and i believe we are stealing thier lives for our edification.and for the political and economic needs of corporations.some of the animals seem happy enough,like the seals and fish in tanks and such but that feeling nags at me that they are captive,nontheless.
    mind you,there are sociological display centers.the man and his world exhibition in montreal has(had)exhibits of culture from around the world.each pavilion had it`s own country theme and you could learn something about china or germany or england or lapland by going from building to building.not as exciting for kids these days as spongebob or disneyland but it`s purpose was cultural and educational as opposed to “entertaining”.

19. carlos Says:
    June 14th, 2005 at 11:38 pm

    jp: of course it’s fucking racist, white people are being denied job opportunities on the basis of their skin colour. oh, you meant that exploitation of black sterotypes is the problem. so you noticed racism against blacks, but not that it is racist against non-blacks at the same time. isn’t discriminating between types of discrimination on the basis of race also racist? this is what i meant when i said that racism is a “divide and conquer” distraction. isn’t it completely fucked that ANYONE should have to dance in a grass skirt in a prison full of depressed animals?

    shouldn’t the outrage be: ohmygod, they’re putting PEOPLE in zoo exhibits!!!

    the fact that these people are black is racism. being concerned because these people are black is also racism. it’s just the pc “let’s help all the poor little niggers” form of the disease. i wonder how a poor black german would feel being deprived of a job opportunity because of the fashionable outrage of white people.

    so… captivity is good for animals because it protects them from the “great white hunter” and raises awareness of the plight of these animals? ahh, the old “welfare” argument for captivity. and racism. and the war on terror.

    because it’s better that we live in captivity than risk being killed in the wild by the ignorant barbarians who hate our freedoms, right?

    and it follows, then, that these poor black people should be caged too, to protect them from the “great white hunter” who is doing the exact same thing to black people as is done to elephants and rhinos. that is, fucking up their natural environment and forcing them into captivity. steel bars, economic slavery, it’s still captivity.

    but my point is this:

    captivity is cruel. whether you think zoos are great or not depends on what side of the bars you are on.

    remove the bars that separate man from “beast” and you go a long way towards removing the prejudices that separate the “races”. [try and define “race” without using arbitrary culture-derived definitions and see how far you get]

    we’re all people, elephants and rhinos included.

    ps. i certainly do direct my ire at circuses, and highways, and laws requiring dogs to be kept behind fences or on leashes, and police, and schools, and kidnappers, and anything else that holds us captive. doesn’t do any good though. everyone keeps missing the point.

20. Occult Investigator Says:
    June 14th, 2005 at 11:53 pm

    man, speaking of dogs on leashes i was at this park recently where they had a sign that said youd get a $300 fine and prison time for not leashing your dog. that drives me apeshit

21. Haeresis Says:
    June 15th, 2005 at 2:52 am

    by the way we have bunnies and foxes and raccoons(noisy pricks)and hawks and doves and the like right out on my back deck in suburbia—

    I kinda miss living in the country, we used to have everything (don’t miss the peacocks- they would stand outside my wiondow and scream all night) out there. We even had a red-tail hawk crash into our bedroom and land right on my bed. I got a couple pics before we figured out how to get him out. Here, we have a pair of jays and a squirel.

22. alistair Says:
    June 15th, 2005 at 8:26 am

    my niegbour took a picture of a red-tail that had skewered a dove on his back deck.interesting symbolism there.it does bring the savagery of nature into focus.for me,suburbia,where we are,is a nice balance between the resourse and market of the city 30 miles away and the farmlands 2 or 3 miles up the hill.there are days where i feel like this community where we live is a sort of zoo.we can drive around inside but the wheels turn automatically at the invisible threshhold.everything is here,the shops,the soccer fields,the schools.so we don`t notice how much effort is actually required to leave.
    i think philip k. dick wrote a book about it.

23. Carnacki Says:
    June 17th, 2005 at 12:45 am

    Funny, I thought democracy was a liberal idea. It’s the conservatives in this country that keep loving and embracing and supporting right wing dictators like Saddam in the 1980s and the Saudi royal family today.