25 Reader Responses

1. Rev max Says:
   June 19th, 2005 at 12:30 am

   INteresting POV. I remeber back in 2002 my GF and I were watching 60 minutes and they had a story about Saddam’s use of chemical warfare against the kurds. We both look at each other like WTF? This story s over a decade old. EVeryone knows already. WHy are they trotting it out again now?

   Ifs was eerie, reading the signs, in the run-up to war, the way all the barkling heads suddenly started talking about “well maybe we should invade iraq” long before Bush ever mentioned it publicly, like they were all reading from the same playbook. You wante dto grab them and shakle them and ask “what makes you say that? why do you suggest it?”But the writing wa son the wall, everyone knew there were no WMD, KNEW Bush had already made his mind up, KNEW the real reason was not wa sthe causa belli supposedly was.

   No, nothing does seem to damage this adminsitration, that’s the maddening part, all of the facts are right out in the open but everyone ignores them. And language is getting so wrestled into submission and battered and wrenched now, the same people who once exchanged knowing glances and discussed how Clinton killed dozens of people back in his cocaine smuggling days now smirk and roll their eyes and call you a conspiracy nut when you point out that The US supported Saddam against Iran. And I mean, that’s not even a theory, its a widely iacknowledged fact

   But I think the layers of deceptiona and disinformation are so thick right now that nobody knows what to think anymore, secrets within secrets within secrets and yeah, its like Icke talks about, the battle of the opposames, the problem-reaction-solution, etc.

   I actually don’t think there’s some bigger conspiracy behind that though maybe just the cosmic conspiracy that first landed the talking monkeys on this planet.

2. crasspastor Says:
   June 19th, 2005 at 12:35 am

   In politics, nothing happens by accident. If it happens, you can bet it was planned that way. –FDR

   I don’t know what the DSM portends, but I do know, if it’s a bandwagon, I ain’t gettin’ on it. I’ll walk thanks.

   To me, the sole problem with any “smoking gun” memo as far as this administration is concerned, is that if you’ve been paying any attention you would know every ounce of this presidency has always dwelt in an ongoing fascist absurdity that hides behind the decorum of managed tradition. Perhaps it’s always been this way. But I don’t think so. Not to this degree.

   If anything, as the proles have become more savvy, so too has the government been cornered into a rather dramatic position of having to inject more chaff into information of its affairs. I wonder if we’re looking at a government that no longer can hide its covert activities and therefore is powerless but to begin dipping into its bag of social control techniques.

   As stones continue to be turned, we shall find another one waits behind it and another and another. They will never run out of stones to place. These public “clues”, such as the DSM, could be doing us all a huge favor. As they throw us off the scent and some become complacent in their surety that “Watergate happened because Nixon was a rat!”, only scaled for this day and age’s public cynicism, we can go back to the regularly scheduled program, which is a continually ramping up global rhetoric, that war, loss and death are going to be the norm for some time.

   All of the clarions of Empire from Europe to Africa and every other point, are beginning to emit their social apprehension pheromone. All possible because we are fully interwoven within the “brand” of world we live in. For instance, I oppose this brand, but she likes it fine. In other words, we’re arguing over brands, not the truth that I am me and you are you. Well, let’s add “Brand China” into this mix now and then “Brand South America”. You’ll note, that it’s playing out like a giant game of Risk.

   You know when you fortify your forces out on the frontiers after attacking another empire? I just get the feeling, that is what’s going on. But this is an even more complex game than that. Within each territory are bomblets of dissent and desperation that must also be quelled and the power harnessed. Also in each territory are incorporations of wealthy business owners who also see their fortunes wisking away. Look for them to radically factionalize under an aegis, which the federal government will give its stamp of approval, that business is the only barometer of freedom. Via la Capitalism!

   So the businesses and corporations will begin to go into the business of protection rackets. See Burbclaves. Again, under the aegis of freedom and democracy. Pretty soon, before you know it, it becomes illegal to be “loose”. See the movie Code 46.

   So, what do I think about the Downing Street Memo? It’s probably one of the initial steps in ensuring peaceful passage to the next personality of government. Everybody cuts loose from Dubya and then it’s onto the next round. Keep in mind though, that throughout this farcical time in which the tongue tied Dubya “ruled”, the corporate consolidating forces of planet Earth totally took over. When and if America ever gets a decent personality as president anything the people might want out of such a personality, will be all for naught. War will be the game then and we will all march arm in arm into the nuclear sunset remaking the planet, because America finally had a great leader once more. Or somebody will roll right over us, believing the same glorious, enslaving, claptrap.

   Either way, organized crime is going to be ticking the fuck up into the stratosphere soon. Which will call for a policestate response. And on and on. . .

3. Occult Investigator Says:
   June 19th, 2005 at 12:47 am

   Crasspastor wrote:

   If anything, as the proles have become more savvy, so too has the government been cornered into a rather dramatic position of having to inject more chaff into information of its affairs. I wonder if we’re looking at a government that no longer can hide its covert activities and therefore is powerless but to begin dipping into its bag of social control techniques.

   Yeah, this is pretty much what I was aiming at with this. It’s both true and a diversion - which is a new tactic, I think. Although, I’ve heard there is a PR technique (not sure what it’s called) where when you catch wind that somebody is going to blow the whistle on your company, you quickly organize an effort to beat them to the punch. You make a public admission of something, but something that is totally trimmed down and framed much smaller than the actual problem. Then, when the whistleblower’s strike, the public is already tired of the issue. The debate has already been framed as desired, and information which doesn’t fall into it is basically dropped. “The company apologized,” people think. “They said they’re sorry and that they’re fixing it. What more could we want?” Anything beyond the public admission becomes a conspiracy theory or a vendetta.

4. badger Says:
   June 19th, 2005 at 1:21 am

   Iran. We have three recent books on the shelves insisting on the immediate nuclear threat Iran is. The war drums are beating. Someone in Britian doesn’t feel like going through this farce again. The area is destabilized enough.

5. crasspastor Says:
   June 19th, 2005 at 1:51 am

   Does it just go on forever? Do we ever get to quit fighting it? Do the marketers pack it up one day and leave us all alone?

   What strange and formative times these are.

   Some guys at Taco Bell wanted to kick my ass for “being too cynical” last week.

   I saw another girl the week before with a shirt that said, written across her ample bosom: Are you blogging this?

   I thought to myself, “Now that you remind me I just might!”

   Last night I went to see what happens when Paul Van Dyk turns on his computers at a nightclub. I couldn’t help but be mesmerized by the “slipstream” trance of observing hundreds of people all do the same thing to a lolling yet aggressive/sexually suggestive beat under viewscreens of such pernicious Van Dyk brand marketing. The screens showed picturesque scenes of high alpine cliff jumpers. The footage was intense and stirring. But intertwined where other more “sinister”, darker, more grimy scenes and flashes of suggestive buzzwords. I tried to take note of who else was paying attention to the screen, but nobody else’s eyes seemed locked on it. Then it made sense, as I watched the loop, that the video isn’t meant to be watched undividedly. It’s ambient imagery, sorcery if you will, that simply adds to the experience. Even I, with nothing to take notes with, yet taking mental note of everything I saw, I can only come back with an impression. I can’t remember what the words I saw flashed above were, or the more bleak scenes. I can recall however, each and every crisply filmed steadicam shot of the helmet and bright colorful suit clad cliff jumpers though.

   So I got to wondering what’s going on in everybody’s heads here. I looked around for visual clues, studying the eyes of all those around me. And I noticed, nobody looks at anybody else, unless that person is what you want. It’s easy to get laid and it’s easy to get into a fight. In fact far easier to get your ass kicked than get laid, but who knows which is worse coming from a dance club anymore? I began to wonder what the potentials of this kind of high strung reptilian drama would be if it were directed towards something tangible.

   It’s a scary place until you notice that nobody else notices how scary it is. You can set yourself at ease knowing you cannot get in any trouble if you’re not there to cause any. It’s almost an austere yet ornately savage form of interaction. It’s like its the communal sacrificial destruction of all moral limits. One cannot be safely outraged or provoked to virtuous emotion anymore, because the human shell has been devalued to $0. There are no limits to mortality other than its own mortality. It’s as if to say, the joke is on us.

   For five years I have paid more attention to politics than I ever would have imagined. What do I have to show for those five years? I want to unplug and yet then I want to stay at it.

6. Occult Investigator Says:
   June 19th, 2005 at 2:34 am

   Badger wrote:

   Iran. We have three recent books on the shelves insisting on the immediate nuclear threat Iran is. The war drums are beating. Someone in Britian doesn’t feel like going through this farce again. The area is destabilized enough.

   I was thinking about this angle as well. But my thoughts were, what if instead of trying to avert war in Iran, this memo is actually intended to boost the cause. Consider this excerpt from an article linked above:

   Ricketts outlined how to win public and parliamentary support for a war in Britain: “We have to be convincing that: the threat is so serious/imminent that it is worth sending our troops to die for; it is qualitatively different from the threat posed by other proliferators who are closer to achieving nuclear capability (including Iran).”

   Maybe what this Downing Street Memo really says is: “Okay, by now everybody has figured out war in Iraq was bullshit. Look here is a morsel for you to feel smart while we move ahead regardless in Iran.”

7. badger Says:
   June 19th, 2005 at 11:09 am

   i was going to ask, “But with what army? The U.S. military is stretched to its limits already.”

   In a report to the council, Gelb was scathing about America efforts to train an Iraqi army. ‘’If you ask any Iraqi leader, they will tell you these people can’t fight. They just aren’t trained. And yet we’re cranking them out like rabbits.” As for plans to train a 10 division Iraqi army by next year, Gelb was scathing. ‘’It became very apparent to me that these 10 divisions were to fight some future war against Iran. It had nothing to do, nothing to do,” with taking Iraq over from the Americans and fighting the insurgents.

   Oh, that army… suddenly i’m a lot more sympathetic to that possible interpretation of the DSM.

8. Orbis Quintus » Blog Archive » bait and switch with Downing Street Memo Says:
   June 19th, 2005 at 11:23 am

   […] Demiurge bait and switch with Downing Street Memo I was reading Tim Boucher’s wary post about the DSM, how certain language […]

9. Occult Investigator Says:
   June 19th, 2005 at 11:54 am

   holy crap! i hadnt even thought of that! that also makes this recent report about how they were “pushing the borders” of syria to keep out “foreign fighters”. combine that with some israeli air strikes and US special forces, and there’s your war without any draft!

10. Occult Investigator Says:
    June 19th, 2005 at 12:02 pm

    If you put everybody in Iraq into the army then it seems like your insurgency would vanish… or at least diminish significantly, right? From what I’ve read, back in the old days, ancient armies would use a similar practice. They would take the population out of one defeated area and use them to colonize another - especially that of an enemy.

    And then there’s: Iraq-Iran Border Tensions rising:

    Dubai, 17 June (AKI) - Skirmishes along the Iran-Iraq border have soared in recent weeks, to such an extent that the two sides are now trading threats of military action, a senior member of Iraq’s security forces said in an newspaper interview.

11. alistair Says:
    June 19th, 2005 at 5:09 pm

    firstly to rev max,we are definitely NOT talking monkies.they have one more chromasome pair than we do.we were certainly put here fully formed though.just go to www.lloydpye.com for a thesis.
    secondly,and with a heavy heart,i wade into the political debate.we fought the vietnam war in laos,cambodia and god knows where else so why wouldn`t we already be in syria and iran?and with so many different types of covert forces what is”we” anyhoo?to say this is a republican of democrat issue makes it political,but i think it`s purely an act of the state at large.wait until mexico moves to take california back!

12. Occult Investigator Says:
    June 19th, 2005 at 5:59 pm

    thats a fine point about laos and cambodia. the question isnt when will we invade iran. the question then is what would the gain be by making it public? the infiltration certainly has already occurred.

13. alistair Says:
    June 19th, 2005 at 6:38 pm

    i think it`s purely to see how much the public is in the mood for.it certainly wouldn`t be a suprise if the conflict officially spilled across borders.new military budget approval was reached recently,for what i believe was called”future wars”.next week,possibly?
    as much as people individually say they are against war i really think that we relish it.presidents,historically,have had thier highest approval rating in times of military conflict.the bushes have both seen approval in the high seventy percent range when first acting in the gulf.this hasn`t gone unnoticed in the whitehouse.bush doesn`t want to enter into the latter part of his second term as a lame duck.he wants to hand the baton to another emerging warrior willing to bash on with what he started.this doesn`t paint a peaceful picture for the next three years.
    i have read elsewhere that there are those that believe that g.b. wants to be part of bringing armaggedon.a regional conflict gulf wide would fill that prescription.when the iran/iraq conflict fizzled we had to get personally involved.

14. slomo Says:
    June 19th, 2005 at 9:26 pm

    Last night I went to see what happens when Paul Van Dyk turns on his computers at a nightclub. I couldn’t help but be mesmerized by the “slipstream” trance of observing hundreds of people all do the same thing to a lolling yet aggressive/sexually suggestive beat under viewscreens of such pernicious Van Dyk brand marketing…Then it made sense, as I watched the loop, that the video isn’t meant to be watched undividedly. It’s ambient imagery, sorcery if you will

    Yes, that is exactly what it is: sorcery.

    I began to wonder what the potentials of this kind of high strung reptilian drama would be if it were directed towards something tangible.

    We’ll all find out in the next few years. It’s pretty clear (to me at least) where all this is going.

15. hf Says:
    June 19th, 2005 at 9:44 pm

    It does seem implausible that Shiite* Iranian mullahs would help Wahhabi** Al-Qaeda, as the guy on the tube claims. On the other hand, it seems more plausible that they both wanted us to attack Iraq. What if everyone’s using everyone?

    *Catholic loon
    **Protestant loon

16. alistair Says:
    June 19th, 2005 at 10:32 pm

    yes,everyone is using everone.war whores,hungry for the deaths of those who don`t follow thier hair-split position on what it means to be here on this rock.finer and finer definitions of why you and i should die.

17. Rev max Says:
    June 20th, 2005 at 2:29 am

    Good God, I think I might have figured this out.

    The Downing street memos are fakes that got leaked on purpose, so when the real ones get discovered two months from now, the whole brouhahha and everything that falls under its umbrella will be dismissed as old news and get swept up into the same garbage can.

    Bush’s lack of military service became a non-issue in the wake of the fake military docs promoted by Rather.

    The concept: release damaging info about your own guy, but do it from a fraudulent source, so that when the source gets discredited the info will be too, even if its later discovered to be true.

18. Rev max Says:
    June 20th, 2005 at 2:35 am

    firstly to rev max,we are definitely NOT talking monkies.they have one more chromasome pair than we do.we were certainly put here fully formed though.just go to www.lloydpye.com for a thesis.

    ——–

    hey thanks alistair yes I am familiar w. intervention theory i wa speaking coloquially. That’s innaressin’ about the extra chromosomes though I had no idea.

    There’s a great book called “where is everyone” or something like that about the fermi paradox that runs through all of the scenarios if how we got here via alien intervention, e.g., colnialism, panspermia, directed panspermia, genetic engineering, etc.

    Yes though I think the truth is probably something like what Zecheriah Sitchin described.

    ———

    We’ll all find out in the next few years. It’s pretty clear (to me at least) where all this is going.

    ———-

    WHere slomo where?

19. alistair Says:
    June 20th, 2005 at 12:44 pm

    thanks rev.sitchin has done a scolarly work.and you have to stand in front of the pyramids and scratch your head.this thing stands baking in the desert sun,silently saying”c`mon,figure me out.”a big hot pile of stone.the chinese have them too,and the mexicans.trying to get closer to god?trying to get physically higher into the sky for some reason.
    here`s an odd fact.did you know that cheetahs are a clone species?each one is an exact genetic replica.an immutable genetic megalith.they sit,like the pyramids,challenging us to find out how and why.

20. alistair Says:
    June 20th, 2005 at 12:48 pm

    and what`s this got to do with the downing street memo?well,if it`s so unimportant to bill clinton,the next head of the u.n.,then i`d rather discuss sitchin and cloned cats than politics.with all due respect to the blog,of course.
    rev max,your point makes perfect political sense.red herrings are stock in trade for the spin boys,after all.

21. Occult Investigator Says:
    June 20th, 2005 at 1:05 pm

    yeah im on board with your explanation, rev. it was a masterful stroke with dan rather. why not do it again? in the meantime, they get to guage public reaction

22. alistair Says:
    June 20th, 2005 at 3:31 pm

    the metrics of public opinion is the food of these gods.knowing what we think allows them to deliver more sophisticated political products.look at the fuss we made over dan quale,bill clinton`s girlfriend,nixon,etc.it`s like a train wreck.you just can`t look away even though you want to.
    the product is politics.the medium for this message is politics it`s self.the content of politics is meaningless……………all they need to do is get us to subscribe.it`s all packaging and no content.
    thier real game is something else.

23. james Says:
    June 20th, 2005 at 4:11 pm

    Clinton’s supposed ignorance of the “Downing Street Memo” might stem from the fact that it isn’t a memo– they’re the actual minutes from the meeting, at least from what I’ve seen online.

    “Memo” is a misnomer in this case. And being that Clinton is inside the loop on most things political, he probably knew about it but under a different name.

    btw: people talk about Bush knowing about 9/11, but has anyone ever entertained the thought that Gore and Clinton knew also? That 2000 election looked like a desperate fight for power between two parties that knew what was going to come down the pike…

24. Occult Investigator Says:
    June 20th, 2005 at 4:24 pm

    thats a great point james. people who run around mouthing “bush knew” are still caught in the game, thinking this somehow has to do with politics. when in reality, politics is just a game to keep the small people occupied. it seems like it would really steam people’s britches to suggest that “gore knew” also

25. alistair Says:
    June 21st, 2005 at 3:15 pm

    y`know there are moments where i look back and realise that i hadn`t thought about al gore for weeks and months at a time.
    that dipshit invented the internet so of course HE knew what was going to happen.imagine waking up one day and realising that you are al gore and married to a cartoon of a college party girl gone to seed?what the fuck is a tipper?