Talking about all this Manson stuff has triggered a chain of explosions, so many that it’s hard to keep track of all the new ideas and possibilities that are coming out. One that I really enjoy though and want to explore further is: Can there be any “intrinsic spiritual value” in being totally certifiably insane? Albion offered the following response:

i guess that depends on your definition of spirituality. mine encompasses more than ’spontaneous realization.’ this stuff strikes me as spiritually rather low-grade. you could drink absinthe and come up with the kind of stuff charlie did. it might even have its own fascinating internal logic. but i would take pains to separate such an experience from what i would personally consider ‘true’ spirituality. i think that if someone can’t bring what’s valuable from their spontaneous spiritual insight into their broader experience and existence, it’s really just flying high. charlie wasn’t free, charlie was a freakin’ slave to his ‘gnosis.’ totally lost in his own labyrinths.

Is this a feeling that other people share? Let me try to rephrase this in a couple other ways that might open up the conversation a little bit: What happens if you touch the face of God but it doesn’t last? What happens if God tells you a secret which you promptly forget? If you’re not able to bring such experiences into conscious awareness, does that mean they aren’t worthwhile? Maybe the message was not meant to be grasped or held onto by your conscious mind. Maybe it’s meant to drop down deeper and influence you in ways you’ll never realize. This seems also like it goes back to Joseph Campbell’s Hero’s Journey, the final stage of which is return to the world to share the boon that you’ve received.

Max also rephrased this question in a really excellent image:

Jesus rejected Satan’s temptation and then returned to society to fulfill his destiny.

What if Jesus had rejected Satan’s temptation and then just stayed in the widerness anyway? Not for 40 days and nights but forever.

What if he discovered he had more in common with the wild animals than people?

I guess really this boils down to two questions about spiritual experience: How does it impact your life? How do you share it with others? Do these make sense as criteria to determine true spirituality? Are there other better ones, or is it a question that’s even worth answering?