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good idea

your “Temple” seems to advocate ritual sex magick, and also emphatically states “sacred joys of life to be celebrated, not hidden away as though it were shameful.” In fact, it seems to be a mantra repeated several times while looking at your works….

so, like i pointed out above, when you then suggest that minors can join your Temple, i believe that leaves you open to being asked whether or not minors are involved in your ritual sex magick (being that the sex magick makes up a good chunk of your “Beliefs” page.

you do have a disclaimer, consenting adults etc… but you then express the need to explore the “darker aspects”… and when investigating occult ritual sex magic, one of the darker aspects ive come across is the ritual abuse of children.

perhaps it may be a good idea for you to NOT allow minors into your Temple, then folks like me wouldnt have to ask you such difficult questions.

Your response to my line of questions, quite frankly, indicates to me that you are not being honest about something, a simple “No” would have been sufficiant. and ill leave you with that…..

one
human?

“July 5th, 2005 at 9:43 am
Freeman….

are minors present during your sex magick rituals?”

Ab-so-fucking-lutely not, and you are an asshole of the first water for even asking.

“Furthermore, I find it AMAZING that Freeman goes to such lengths to tell me how I haven’t read enough books, and then on his own website where he’s “safe” admits he hasn’t even read the book that I was talking about!”

I wasn’t talking about your opinion of the book, I was talking about your ignorant comments on ritual magic. There are two ways in which you could become competent to state the opinion you stated: practice magic extensively yourself, which you disclaimed, or failing that, at least read enough about it so that you’re not talking out your ass. Hence the book recommendations. If you do not understand the distinctions I am making here, then I really have been wasting my time.

I do not recall giving permission for you to republish my picture. Remove it.

– Freeman

It seems obvious to me that enough people on both sides here want to fight, not discuss, because they’ve been attacked (not an inaccurate perception), and so they’re so focused on what the other side is saying they don’t see how they’re antagonizing each other.

If enough people want to fight, I shut up and let them. I can’t stop yin and yang.

Peace, if such a thing exists.

——————

LOL, i don’t belive in that crap. I saw a psychiatrist once when I was in my early 20s and wound up throwing the scrip out the car window on the way home. I think a lot of psychiatric drugs are used to suppress legitimate anxieties and trains of inquiry.

I’m not offering a blanket statement here some people do have chemical inbalances and may need’em. But I knew deep down that all I really needed was to talk. SO I found someone who came from that POV (talking, dreams, hypnosis, etc) instead.

——————————

i think, on the spiritual path, the stalking of intent, the first casualty is ego.

———————————-

Seems like a lot of that going around lately!

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LOL that’s a great one!

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i disagree about all the good magicians, by the way. i can`t always be talking with clients.

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I was trying to make a point. You are hypnotherapist yes? My shrink charges a lot too but he has helped me so much its worth it. We all gotta eat.

OTOH he has a private life too. Shamen I know also have private lives.

Serving a community is like serving the spirits or serving clients, if you burn out your no good to anyone.

Mostly cause they’re caught up in these really low level ego games like getting pissed that someone dissed them

or whatever

That’s the time to get off of usenet

exit the conversation

If you’re so angry that someone called you a goofball or whatever that your mind is running away with plans to put the psychick whammy on them or whatever

then unplug your computer for the day and go swimming or get stoned or something

I got mugged a couple of months ago. ANd in the back of my backpack I had a hawkbill serrated knife

And if you know how to use those things apparently you can be playing jumprope with someone’s intestines before they even realize what’s happened

but here’s the thing

I have no idea how to use it and couldn’t even reach it during the mugging

instead i distracte dthe guy and got outta there

THANK GOD i didn’t use the knife. For one thing I would have either gotten killed or killed someone over almost nothing

For another like my martial arts teacher said: a knife is not for waving around, intimidating or impressing. If you pull it, the goal is to use it ASAP and move on to the next target

If you aren’t prepared to kill, don’t pull the knife! Its that simple.

Magic is the same I think. If yer gonna do something, do it, don’t talk about it, don’t wave it around, just do it.

In fact I would venture to say that anyone who is really GOOD at magic is probably not writing arguing about it on the internet, instead they are:

- helping to fix marriages
- helping people get jobs
- helping people recover from illness
- defending people from bullies

…. and making a pretty penny for their services too.

That’s why communities have shamen, not be loose cannons who gets their feathers ruffled at the drop of a dime and have to be soothed, but to serve the tribe.

don’t fuck with free speech. without free speech you can’t do shit.

people can and should say whatever the fuck they want.

what’s next, thought crime?

fwiw, i actually have experience with ritual chaos magick, & imo here’s one of the things about it. chaos magick is, as magick goes, really easy! i don’t mean it doesn’t take any work, but compared with other initiatory traditions, it’s super-simple to come up w/a sigil, charge it (via masturbation or otherwise) and ‘zap off’ a spell. it doesn’t require years of training or levels of initiation or expensive swords & incense & whatnot; at it’s most essential level, it’s basically a matter of putting pen to paper, jerking off, and then attempting the sometimes easy, sometimes mind-blowingly difficult task of forgetting your sigil. nonetheless, a lot of the people i’ve known who are into this stuff do it because it’s an easy way to accumulate ‘power,’ be it real or imagined. hell, peter carroll says as much in liber kaos (taken out of context, carroll can come across as a super-obnoxious asshole).

let’s face the facts: magick is not something typically performed by jocks. most people currently interested in it were more than likely on the receiving end of the bully-stick at some point or another (i know i was) and got into it to try to maintain some kind of personal power in a society that punishes the intelligent in favor of the physical. as a consequence, a good number of practitioners of magickal traditions, but (i’ve noticed) especially chaos magickians can be incredibly defensive and holier-than-thou. i think that comes out a lot in online discussion; people get all defensive. oh, and another thing– wait, i’ll make a blog post on this.

The same goes for Lupabitch, of course. It takes two to exchange ideas, and two to fight. I think more is learned through the former than the latter. Both sides here need to start looking at themselves, in my opinion.

are minors present during your sex magick rituals?

There were two ways you could have had standing to write what you did about PCM (and even then, the ad hominems were over the top, and people will remember them whether or not they check back to see where you straightened it all out with Taylor): by being a practicing magician, or by having at least read enough about it to understand where it comes from. You admitted to having done neither.

I was reacting to the incompetence of your attack, not in some “OMG he’s gored my sacred cow!” flareup.

I don’t know how big your readership is, but using your blog as a platform to piss on people isn’t going to improve it. (Or is it? Do you want people reading you just to see your next juvenile outburst? That would probably get you lots of hits).

You suckered me in with your “Occult Investigator” persona, then I find out you’re “investigating” in the sense of “finding out about it for the first time.”

You also referred to me as having been “offended” before. I wasn’t then; I am now.

Cute pun on my name, too.

P.S., I’m not even going to guess why Lupa went where she did. You needn’t try to tar me with that brush.

But I do think temporary experiments with dogmatic ideas can be revealing, psychologically.

Though ultimately I tend to think that dogmatism is something to be transcended. I think that’s one advantage of occultic belief systems, is that they’re designed so that if you go far enough down the rabbit hole you can come out the other side and see the inanity of any rigid belief system.

I do think that a lot of people, both in mainstream religion and occultism, fool themselves into thinking that what THEY’RE doing isn’t rigid or dogmatic or mechanical. But the truth is most people crave surety and answers and finality. You’re quotes from Mckenna the other day touched on this. Once you’ve settled on any ONE idea, system or truth, you’re probably missing something.

The only way is no way, the art of fighting without fighting, no-mind, the meta-model model , etc, etc

But people become so invested in and identified with their belief systems that any questioning of the system is seen as an attack on them.

I think the intelligent response to the “big, fat dork” thing, by the author or his “acolytes” should have been to laugh you off or engage in a meaningful exchange of ideas. Defensiveness, indignation or any of that nonsense smacks of insecurity.

we should introduce Freeman & Co. to the folks over at the RI board, step back & let them at each other….

seems like Freeman is a big dog over at Temple Zagduku

from their Beliefs page:

We believe that any sexual activity between (or among) informed, mature, and consenting adults is appropriate and is one of the sacred joys of life to be celebrated, not hidden away as though it were shameful. We recognize the vast potential of sex magic, and many of us practice it in various forms.

We believe that to develop spiritually in any meaningful way, one must explore both the lighter and darker aspects of existence.

sure, whatever floats your boat….. but…… from their Membership page:

Minors are only accepted if at least one parent is also a member of Temple Zagduku. Parental permission must accompany all applications for their minor children.

very slippery slope IMO……

a little more research shows that Freeman’s girl Lili, in addition to making jewelry, has penned a little ditty called the “Moontime Creed” and has a Cafepress shop pushing her thing….

Celebrate the magic and power of menstruation with these woman-affirming products!

Some of our items have the “Moontime Creed” by Lili Wood. Be sure to click on the links for larger images so that you can read this woman-affirming poem!

read the creed.

hows that for some twisted synchronicity…..

one
human?