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	<title>Comments on: Freedom on a Leash</title>
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	<pubDate>Sun, 22 Nov 2009 12:25:15 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: laura jane</title>
		<link>http://www.timboucher.com/journal/2005/07/07/freedom-on-a-leash/comment-page-1/#comment-2814</link>
		<dc:creator>laura jane</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 Jul 2005 18:48:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.timboucher.com/journal/2005/07/07/freedom-on-a-leash/#comment-2814</guid>
		<description>jeremy, mine too !! 

her favorite activities are playing, cuddling, eating, and following me around.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>jeremy, mine too !! </p>
<p>her favorite activities are playing, cuddling, eating, and following me around.</p>
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		<title>By: J. Puma</title>
		<link>http://www.timboucher.com/journal/2005/07/07/freedom-on-a-leash/comment-page-1/#comment-2811</link>
		<dc:creator>J. Puma</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 Jul 2005 17:41:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.timboucher.com/journal/2005/07/07/freedom-on-a-leash/#comment-2811</guid>
		<description>how about the very limited nature of sensory perception?  lots of people think the senses give them their freedom, that the senses are the only things to rely on,  but that ain't always the case.  i guess that leads me to also include 'science' as a 'freeing leash.' 

lj--
&lt;blockquote&gt;i guess itâ€™s because i trust dogs so completely.. i mean i really have this deep reverence/respect/love for canines.&lt;/blockquote&gt;
man i agree completely!  my dog is one of the coolest people i know.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>how about the very limited nature of sensory perception?  lots of people think the senses give them their freedom, that the senses are the only things to rely on,  but that ain&#8217;t always the case.  i guess that leads me to also include &#8217;science&#8217; as a &#8216;freeing leash.&#8217; </p>
<p>lj&#8211;</p>
<blockquote><p>i guess itâ€™s because i trust dogs so completely.. i mean i really have this deep reverence/respect/love for canines.</p></blockquote>
<p>man i agree completely!  my dog is one of the coolest people i know.</p>
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		<title>By: Occult Investigator</title>
		<link>http://www.timboucher.com/journal/2005/07/07/freedom-on-a-leash/comment-page-1/#comment-2805</link>
		<dc:creator>Occult Investigator</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 Jul 2005 17:18:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.timboucher.com/journal/2005/07/07/freedom-on-a-leash/#comment-2805</guid>
		<description>I'm not saying it's an either/or answer, I'm just saying I think it's a great question as a starting point for discussion. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m not saying it&#8217;s an either/or answer, I&#8217;m just saying I think it&#8217;s a great question as a starting point for discussion.</p>
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		<title>By: Jason Bradfield</title>
		<link>http://www.timboucher.com/journal/2005/07/07/freedom-on-a-leash/comment-page-1/#comment-2803</link>
		<dc:creator>Jason Bradfield</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 Jul 2005 17:12:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.timboucher.com/journal/2005/07/07/freedom-on-a-leash/#comment-2803</guid>
		<description>I think the answer to that question is beyond either/or logic because their natures are so different.  Each is living a potentially good or bad life for its nature.  I think human beings are the same way - thus the impossibility of developing objective measures of subjective concepts such as happiness or success.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think the answer to that question is beyond either/or logic because their natures are so different.  Each is living a potentially good or bad life for its nature.  I think human beings are the same way - thus the impossibility of developing objective measures of subjective concepts such as happiness or success.</p>
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		<title>By: Occult Investigator</title>
		<link>http://www.timboucher.com/journal/2005/07/07/freedom-on-a-leash/comment-page-1/#comment-2798</link>
		<dc:creator>Occult Investigator</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 Jul 2005 16:20:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.timboucher.com/journal/2005/07/07/freedom-on-a-leash/#comment-2798</guid>
		<description>I do like the question of which is living a better life: the dog or the wolf?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I do like the question of which is living a better life: the dog or the wolf?</p>
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		<title>By: Jason Bradfield</title>
		<link>http://www.timboucher.com/journal/2005/07/07/freedom-on-a-leash/comment-page-1/#comment-2795</link>
		<dc:creator>Jason Bradfield</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 Jul 2005 15:20:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.timboucher.com/journal/2005/07/07/freedom-on-a-leash/#comment-2795</guid>
		<description>Freedom/Slavery is just another duality and not a very useful one at that.

All actions take place in a constricted environment â€“ we are always leashed in some way.  The wild wolf is limited by its instincts and the vicissitudes of its environment.  The dog, by the leash of its owner.  The difference is that one is limited by an ecological system, the other by human will.  Which is better? (For my opinion refer to Crowleyâ€™s famous maxim).

Leashes can be good for  people (I mean that metaphorically, although I do understand the BDSMers literal interpretation).  Just as the dog has a pretty damn good life compared to the wolf in terms of creature comforts so some people are willing to trade â€œfreedomâ€ for â€œsecurity.â€  Do they deserve neither as Ben Franklin suggested?  Well, that sounds like it makes sense and allows â€œfreedom-lovingâ€ individualists such as myself to sound morally superior, but at root the dichotomy is absurd.  The freedom/slavery trade is a trade that occurs in any interaction, from romantic relationships to business partnerships.

Ultimately what matters is not freedom versus slavery but power versus impotence.  Power comes from two sources: oneâ€™s genetic endowment and oneâ€™s accumulated life experiences or â€œwisdom.â€  (BTW,  perhaps we should consider oneâ€™s genetic endowment the physical manifestation of natural wisdom). The dog is in a servile state because it has been genetically engineered (bred) and culturally engineered (trained) to be docile.  This engineering was done by human will.  The wolf has been genetically and culturally engineered by its environment (=Mother Nature, Gaia?) to be what we call â€œwild,â€ which is really just as restrictive as the dogâ€™s life.  One might say that the wolf is allowed to roam freely.  No itâ€™s not.  If the wolf enters the house where the dogâ€™s master lives, it will be shot.  If the wolf breaks its leg it may very well die.  In both situations the dog is allowed a measure of freedom that the wolf doesnâ€™t have. The same is true of humans in varying states of â€œbondage.â€

Therefore, our leashes are legion; they are what bind us together in effective society and society is what allows us to do things that Mother Nature (humanityâ€™s master) would never permit us to do such as reading and writing blogs.

Notions of freedom have helped to obscure our true wills.  They have had a particularly deleterious effect on political and gender relations.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Freedom/Slavery is just another duality and not a very useful one at that.</p>
<p>All actions take place in a constricted environment â€“ we are always leashed in some way.  The wild wolf is limited by its instincts and the vicissitudes of its environment.  The dog, by the leash of its owner.  The difference is that one is limited by an ecological system, the other by human will.  Which is better? (For my opinion refer to Crowleyâ€™s famous maxim).</p>
<p>Leashes can be good for  people (I mean that metaphorically, although I do understand the BDSMers literal interpretation).  Just as the dog has a pretty damn good life compared to the wolf in terms of creature comforts so some people are willing to trade â€œfreedomâ€ for â€œsecurity.â€  Do they deserve neither as Ben Franklin suggested?  Well, that sounds like it makes sense and allows â€œfreedom-lovingâ€ individualists such as myself to sound morally superior, but at root the dichotomy is absurd.  The freedom/slavery trade is a trade that occurs in any interaction, from romantic relationships to business partnerships.</p>
<p>Ultimately what matters is not freedom versus slavery but power versus impotence.  Power comes from two sources: oneâ€™s genetic endowment and oneâ€™s accumulated life experiences or â€œwisdom.â€  (BTW,  perhaps we should consider oneâ€™s genetic endowment the physical manifestation of natural wisdom). The dog is in a servile state because it has been genetically engineered (bred) and culturally engineered (trained) to be docile.  This engineering was done by human will.  The wolf has been genetically and culturally engineered by its environment (=Mother Nature, Gaia?) to be what we call â€œwild,â€ which is really just as restrictive as the dogâ€™s life.  One might say that the wolf is allowed to roam freely.  No itâ€™s not.  If the wolf enters the house where the dogâ€™s master lives, it will be shot.  If the wolf breaks its leg it may very well die.  In both situations the dog is allowed a measure of freedom that the wolf doesnâ€™t have. The same is true of humans in varying states of â€œbondage.â€</p>
<p>Therefore, our leashes are legion; they are what bind us together in effective society and society is what allows us to do things that Mother Nature (humanityâ€™s master) would never permit us to do such as reading and writing blogs.</p>
<p>Notions of freedom have helped to obscure our true wills.  They have had a particularly deleterious effect on political and gender relations.</p>
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		<title>By: Liberty Joan Adams</title>
		<link>http://www.timboucher.com/journal/2005/07/07/freedom-on-a-leash/comment-page-1/#comment-2792</link>
		<dc:creator>Liberty Joan Adams</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 Jul 2005 14:30:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.timboucher.com/journal/2005/07/07/freedom-on-a-leash/#comment-2792</guid>
		<description>Oh Laura, do not get me started on that! ;) I did a tally. During Bush's speech from Fort Bragg he mentioned "freedom" a total of 32 times. That's just 2 times less than he said the word "terrorists." Keep in mind this was a 1/2 hour speech! And he mentioned "security" 14 times. The words they use don't mean what they used to mean anymore.

But... it's great for drinking games and Presidential Speech Bingo! &#62;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh Laura, do not get me started on that! <img src='http://www.timboucher.com/journal/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' /> I did a tally. During Bush&#8217;s speech from Fort Bragg he mentioned &#8220;freedom&#8221; a total of 32 times. That&#8217;s just 2 times less than he said the word &#8220;terrorists.&#8221; Keep in mind this was a 1/2 hour speech! And he mentioned &#8220;security&#8221; 14 times. The words they use don&#8217;t mean what they used to mean anymore.</p>
<p>But&#8230; it&#8217;s great for drinking games and Presidential Speech Bingo! &gt;</p>
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		<title>By: laura jane</title>
		<link>http://www.timboucher.com/journal/2005/07/07/freedom-on-a-leash/comment-page-1/#comment-2791</link>
		<dc:creator>laura jane</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 Jul 2005 14:03:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.timboucher.com/journal/2005/07/07/freedom-on-a-leash/#comment-2791</guid>
		<description>i just think a lot of people are mixed up about what freedom IS in the first place.. so there's bound to be a lot of confusion and misconception.  i think the powers that be would have us equate "freedom" with their perverted idea of "security"... which is really distorted.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>i just think a lot of people are mixed up about what freedom IS in the first place.. so there&#8217;s bound to be a lot of confusion and misconception.  i think the powers that be would have us equate &#8220;freedom&#8221; with their perverted idea of &#8220;security&#8221;&#8230; which is really distorted.</p>
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		<title>By: Bret</title>
		<link>http://www.timboucher.com/journal/2005/07/07/freedom-on-a-leash/comment-page-1/#comment-2789</link>
		<dc:creator>Bret</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 Jul 2005 12:22:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.timboucher.com/journal/2005/07/07/freedom-on-a-leash/#comment-2789</guid>
		<description>Cars - Money - anything that has to be attained to attain freedom is a leash. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Cars - Money - anything that has to be attained to attain freedom is a leash.</p>
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		<title>By: Occult Investigator</title>
		<link>http://www.timboucher.com/journal/2005/07/07/freedom-on-a-leash/comment-page-1/#comment-2784</link>
		<dc:creator>Occult Investigator</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 Jul 2005 05:48:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.timboucher.com/journal/2005/07/07/freedom-on-a-leash/#comment-2784</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;i â€˜just get mad in the right wayâ€™ then iâ€™ll get the situation to work out.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Ahhh... that's brilliant. I can so relate to that</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>i â€˜just get mad in the right wayâ€™ then iâ€™ll get the situation to work out.</p></blockquote>
<p>Ahhh&#8230; that&#8217;s brilliant. I can so relate to that</p>
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		<title>By: Inder</title>
		<link>http://www.timboucher.com/journal/2005/07/07/freedom-on-a-leash/comment-page-1/#comment-2782</link>
		<dc:creator>Inder</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 Jul 2005 05:22:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.timboucher.com/journal/2005/07/07/freedom-on-a-leash/#comment-2782</guid>
		<description>A big leash is probably just mental, i.e. the range of emotions or relationships we feel we can have with other people.  Boundaries on potentially consensual interpersonal behavior, social conceptions about what's "appropriate," assumptions we make about the purpose of life.  A big one: assumptions we make about leadership and power, i.e. we're all supposed to follow the President, that our democracy = the only form of democracy, etc. etc. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A big leash is probably just mental, i.e. the range of emotions or relationships we feel we can have with other people.  Boundaries on potentially consensual interpersonal behavior, social conceptions about what&#8217;s &#8220;appropriate,&#8221; assumptions we make about the purpose of life.  A big one: assumptions we make about leadership and power, i.e. we&#8217;re all supposed to follow the President, that our democracy = the only form of democracy, etc. etc.</p>
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		<title>By: davee</title>
		<link>http://www.timboucher.com/journal/2005/07/07/freedom-on-a-leash/comment-page-1/#comment-2781</link>
		<dc:creator>davee</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 Jul 2005 05:20:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.timboucher.com/journal/2005/07/07/freedom-on-a-leash/#comment-2781</guid>
		<description>the tibetan buddhist lama chogyam trungpa rinpoche, the one who was known for boozin' it up among other things, wrote an entire book on this topic called "The Myth of Freedom": basically about the ways we think we have free will but we end up making our own mind more and more habitual and ultimately don't get what we think we're getting.

in summary, we think that if we 'just set things up right' or 'just play our cards right' then everything will work out. my favorite example of this is if i 'just get mad in the right way' then i'll get the situation to work out. but that game that we're playing is basically trying to restrict the situation and ourselves, and then ironically things don't generally turn out the way we want them, and we're invested in a specific outcome instead of a wider experience.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>the tibetan buddhist lama chogyam trungpa rinpoche, the one who was known for boozin&#8217; it up among other things, wrote an entire book on this topic called &#8220;The Myth of Freedom&#8221;: basically about the ways we think we have free will but we end up making our own mind more and more habitual and ultimately don&#8217;t get what we think we&#8217;re getting.</p>
<p>in summary, we think that if we &#8216;just set things up right&#8217; or &#8216;just play our cards right&#8217; then everything will work out. my favorite example of this is if i &#8216;just get mad in the right way&#8217; then i&#8217;ll get the situation to work out. but that game that we&#8217;re playing is basically trying to restrict the situation and ourselves, and then ironically things don&#8217;t generally turn out the way we want them, and we&#8217;re invested in a specific outcome instead of a wider experience.</p>
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		<title>By: laura jane</title>
		<link>http://www.timboucher.com/journal/2005/07/07/freedom-on-a-leash/comment-page-1/#comment-2780</link>
		<dc:creator>laura jane</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 Jul 2005 05:08:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.timboucher.com/journal/2005/07/07/freedom-on-a-leash/#comment-2780</guid>
		<description>yeah that's different, i should clarify.  i think it's weird when people who aren't children OR who have never had any kind of traumatic experience involving dogs are scared of dogs.

i guess it's because i trust dogs so completely.. i mean i really have this deep reverence/respect/love for canines. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>yeah that&#8217;s different, i should clarify.  i think it&#8217;s weird when people who aren&#8217;t children OR who have never had any kind of traumatic experience involving dogs are scared of dogs.</p>
<p>i guess it&#8217;s because i trust dogs so completely.. i mean i really have this deep reverence/respect/love for canines.</p>
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		<title>By: Occult Investigator</title>
		<link>http://www.timboucher.com/journal/2005/07/07/freedom-on-a-leash/comment-page-1/#comment-2779</link>
		<dc:creator>Occult Investigator</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 Jul 2005 05:01:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.timboucher.com/journal/2005/07/07/freedom-on-a-leash/#comment-2779</guid>
		<description>i was when i was a kid, but it's only cause i didnt understand how they operated</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>i was when i was a kid, but it&#8217;s only cause i didnt understand how they operated</p>
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		<title>By: laura jane</title>
		<link>http://www.timboucher.com/journal/2005/07/07/freedom-on-a-leash/comment-page-1/#comment-2778</link>
		<dc:creator>laura jane</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 Jul 2005 04:51:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.timboucher.com/journal/2005/07/07/freedom-on-a-leash/#comment-2778</guid>
		<description>additionally, i think it's weird when people are scared of dogs.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>additionally, i think it&#8217;s weird when people are scared of dogs.</p>
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		<title>By: laura jane</title>
		<link>http://www.timboucher.com/journal/2005/07/07/freedom-on-a-leash/comment-page-1/#comment-2777</link>
		<dc:creator>laura jane</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 Jul 2005 04:48:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.timboucher.com/journal/2005/07/07/freedom-on-a-leash/#comment-2777</guid>
		<description>i'd say "structured safeness" (sometimes but not always) ... health insurance ?  

i think a lot of the stuff we usually label as "entertainment" or "luxury" could potentially fall into this category.. ie; the SUV you're still paying off, or the premium cable bill you have to keep up with every month.



</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>i&#8217;d say &#8220;structured safeness&#8221; (sometimes but not always) &#8230; health insurance ?  </p>
<p>i think a lot of the stuff we usually label as &#8220;entertainment&#8221; or &#8220;luxury&#8221; could potentially fall into this category.. ie; the SUV you&#8217;re still paying off, or the premium cable bill you have to keep up with every month.</p>
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		<title>By: Occult Investigator</title>
		<link>http://www.timboucher.com/journal/2005/07/07/freedom-on-a-leash/comment-page-1/#comment-2776</link>
		<dc:creator>Occult Investigator</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 Jul 2005 04:30:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.timboucher.com/journal/2005/07/07/freedom-on-a-leash/#comment-2776</guid>
		<description>Yeah I need to check him out more. Thanks for the tip, loki. 

Joan, I might also add to that list: jobs, giving the "freedom" of money</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yeah I need to check him out more. Thanks for the tip, loki. </p>
<p>Joan, I might also add to that list: jobs, giving the &#8220;freedom&#8221; of money</p>
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		<title>By: lokiwort</title>
		<link>http://www.timboucher.com/journal/2005/07/07/freedom-on-a-leash/comment-page-1/#comment-2775</link>
		<dc:creator>lokiwort</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 Jul 2005 04:19:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.timboucher.com/journal/2005/07/07/freedom-on-a-leash/#comment-2775</guid>
		<description>Wilhelm Reich called it "freedom in the trap."  See his "Listen, Little Man."  Also related would be his "Murder of the Christ."  All his books fit well into what I've seen on this site.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wilhelm Reich called it &#8220;freedom in the trap.&#8221;  See his &#8220;Listen, Little Man.&#8221;  Also related would be his &#8220;Murder of the Christ.&#8221;  All his books fit well into what I&#8217;ve seen on this site.</p>
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		<title>By: slomo</title>
		<link>http://www.timboucher.com/journal/2005/07/07/freedom-on-a-leash/comment-page-1/#comment-2774</link>
		<dc:creator>slomo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 Jul 2005 03:31:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.timboucher.com/journal/2005/07/07/freedom-on-a-leash/#comment-2774</guid>
		<description>Hah, synchronicity!  My dog and I had some "issues" today.  Every day I take her to a state park near my home, where she is allowed to roam free (sans leash) for most of the two mile loop that we walk/run.  The deal is that she's supposed to come when called, so that we don't annoy the people that don't like dogs.  This morning she made the major faux pas of ignoring me and running to a guy I know is afraid of dogs.  Needless to say I was pissed and she ended up on the leash for 3/4 of the walk.

Nothin' deep here, just needed to share.  Perhaps its wise to remember that leashes are sometimes necessary circumscriptions of freedom.

</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hah, synchronicity!  My dog and I had some &#8220;issues&#8221; today.  Every day I take her to a state park near my home, where she is allowed to roam free (sans leash) for most of the two mile loop that we walk/run.  The deal is that she&#8217;s supposed to come when called, so that we don&#8217;t annoy the people that don&#8217;t like dogs.  This morning she made the major faux pas of ignoring me and running to a guy I know is afraid of dogs.  Needless to say I was pissed and she ended up on the leash for 3/4 of the walk.</p>
<p>Nothin&#8217; deep here, just needed to share.  Perhaps its wise to remember that leashes are sometimes necessary circumscriptions of freedom.</p>
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		<title>By: Liberty Joan Adams</title>
		<link>http://www.timboucher.com/journal/2005/07/07/freedom-on-a-leash/comment-page-1/#comment-2773</link>
		<dc:creator>Liberty Joan Adams</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 Jul 2005 02:55:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.timboucher.com/journal/2005/07/07/freedom-on-a-leash/#comment-2773</guid>
		<description>Driver's Licenses, social security numbers, passports, all those kinds of government documentation that facilitates some kind of process but puts you in a box with a code number... taking that a step further, some people might say government itself is a "leash." And maybe certain types of religion?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Driver&#8217;s Licenses, social security numbers, passports, all those kinds of government documentation that facilitates some kind of process but puts you in a box with a code number&#8230; taking that a step further, some people might say government itself is a &#8220;leash.&#8221; And maybe certain types of religion?</p>
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