i mean, its hard to even fathom the profound change in conciousness that the first drawings & painting represent…

but…. whats been really getting to me is what the fuck happened recently that people started painting/drawing in perspective????

i mean, i understood the vanishing point concept when i was taught it in elementary school.. but until very recently people didnt use (know?) this method… and that, is fucking insane to me.. what happened???? and since its a relatively recent phenomena, i havent really read or heard a good explanation for such a drastic change in “perspective”

one
human?

this

are helpful, and are discussed in various posts here

On the note of the development of symbol (and hence language), I suggest reading Language: Origin and Meaning by John Zerzan. He has another writing titled The Failure of Symbolic Thought, which may have a bit of info on the development of said item. I cannot help but recommend anything Zerzan.

I love your page, by the way.

How did the primitive mind first grok something like in this hypothetical Lascaux ritual? I think you’re probably right - there would come the terror and the awe -

You were then presented with some kind of secret teachings to further pry open your mind and force in this almost psychotic split between reality and this other layer of meaning on top of reality in which a rock can be both a rock and an animal. Where the spirirtual essence of an animal can be captured into a fixed form and manipulated. And by manipulating these forms, essences and representations, you’re taught to manipulate the things they stand for as well.

Anyone who can do this is arrogating to themselves the creative power of the gods, consciously or no. That may be the “knowledge of good and evil”

the whole thing about symbol manipulation and “spiritual currency” of course isn’t limited to the the spiritual realm … in fact, part of the reason it seems to resonate for me (ithink) is that it makes such a solid connection to physical manipulations and forms of currency. i dunno, i’ll have to think some more about it.

Never before had I really thought about dreams and symbols in themselves as being some kind of spiritual currency. Which is something I’ve been trying to slog through in my “Power” series.

I can’t really put it into words right now, but it feels like that revelation completes some kind of loop for me. so uhh… thanks dood.

Reminds me of manson saying your body is a symbol.

This is exactly where I was going to go with this, but got sidetracked… like what if the ritual I described above actually occurred. And then the initiate learned to manipulate symbols and representation, and then somehow they showed them that they too were merely representation, that their body was nothing more than a painting on a cave wall. Maybe this is where Plato’s allegory of the cave comes from.

I like those 4 stages of the Baudrillard simulacrum thing too. I’ll have to think about that some more. I guess this speculative ritual would be the one designed to spark the 1st stage awareness

I wonder in some sense if this is how the spark of consciousness was kindled and passed along generations. The idea being that you were suddenly confronted with the idea of analogs. A thing which stood for another thing. You were then presented with some kind of secret teachings to further pry open your mind and force in this almost psychotic split between reality and this other layer of meaning on top of reality in which a rock can be both a rock and an animal.

this is idea seems more important a minute later than the thread i initially picked up and started following. Also a lot more elusive and paradoxical. How did we learn to use symbols? Aren’t they in themselves a mystery and also a form of madness?

Reminds me of manson saying your body is a symbol.

Also of McKenna saying the mushrooms used themselves to implant consciousness in the apes by setting up this reflexive cycle of symbolic self-reflection

ALso of Baurdillard’s ideas about the levels of simulation, eg:

”These would be the successive phases of the image:

1 It is the refleciton of a basic reality.
2 It masks and perverts a basic reality.
3 It masks the absence of a basic reality.
4 It bears no relation to any reality whatever: it is its own pure simulacrucm.
In the first case, the image is a good appearance: the represenation is of the order of sacrament. In the seond, it is an evil appearance: of the order of malefice. In the third, it plays at beaing an appearance: it is of the order of sorcery. In the fourth, it is no longer in the order of appearance at all, but of simulation. “(170)

I tend to agree with the transpersonal nature of ritual. Campbell said something about how it’s supposed to cast you out and be utterly alien to you, not this friendly fuzzy thing you can hug and be happy about the next day.

Did you friend report back to them on their historical accuracy?

So anyway he probably just figured this might be a good opportunity to meet chicks so he went. And lo and behold he said the “ritual” they were doing had NOTHING to do with the Eleusian mysteries, instead they had props (smoke, braziers, gongs) etc. and what really blew his mind was this one woman was looking into a mirror going “I love you I love you I love” [CF. Narcissus] and then they were all taking terms praising the,selves in the mirror. And I mean the goal should be to BREAK THE MIRROR!

Just fucking BREAK IT!

Anyway, I was telling him about a group ritual I had experienced that was a bit different (ie. disorienting and frightening and chaotic - I wound up feeling like “WHO AM I? IS THERE EVEN A ME?) ) and my buddy said

“EXACTLY! The mysteries are supposed to be TRANSPERSONAL they are supposed to fill you with TERROR and AWE not boost your self-esteem.”

The mysteries are supposed to fiill you with terror and awe not boost your self-esteem - anyway I liked that.