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Are Occultists “Better” Than Fundamentalist Christians?
I’ve been seeing this implication come up again and again in the recent conversation on this site. And it’s coming from a lot of different sides, so I’m not singling out anybody in particular for a verbal thrashing. I’ll even admit that I’ve thought this myself on many occasions…
The idea in question is that occultists are somehow “better” than Christian Fundamentalists. Or change the terminology around. Say “chaos magickians” or “counter-culture” instead of occultist. I feel like there’s a lot of people here saying unequivocally (or at least subtly implying) that somebody who’s studying the occult is fundamentally better/smarter/cooler than anybody who doesn’t. But especially better than Christians and Christian Fundamentalists. Is this a fair reading of prevailing opinion? Is this what people think or am I just blowing smoke out of my ass?
Let me first give you my explanation of why I’ve thought this in the past. And then you can tell me if you think it’s off base or stupid or what. The basic argument, as I see it, is that occultists are better for the following reasons:
- Making an individual choice / following a calling / not running with the “herd”
- Living life more “consciously”
- Are more concerned with direct experience & deep knowledge
Hidden in those of course are a bunch of statements about strength of character, individuality, intelligence and soulfulness. The more I’ve considered the matter and the more times I hear such things repeated, the less I seem to believe it. Maybe it’s just that I’ve been reviewing a lot of what I always just assumed. But maybe these views really don’t actually hold up under scrutiny. You tell me. Do those characteristics describe occultists? Do those characteristics describe occultists more accurately than they describe Fundamentalist Christians? Or do they simply describe deeply religious people of all shapes, sizes and traditions?
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July 19th, 2005 at 11:19 pm
i think the problem is the definition of ‘better’ as used by some folks. personally, i don’t believe any one single person is inherently ‘better’ or ‘worse’ than another. at the core, i’m of the opinion that gandhi was no better than george w., that mlk was no better than hitler and vice-versa. the spark of the divine, purely ‘good,’ purely valuable exists within each and every human & arguably every conscious being, and on that level nobody’s better or worse than anyone else. there’s no reason to assume that occultists (or what have you) are any better (or worse) than fundamentalist christians, because they’re all part of the same universal consciousness.
now, a saner view of existence might be that openness, freedom and compassion and humility are healthier qualities in the long run than close-mindedness, hatred, etc. but, those are still externalities being manifested by valuable and free individuals. i’m more than happy disagreeing with the homophobic point of view, for instance, but i don’t believe that makes me ‘better’ than those who profess homophobia.
in my experience, one who considers h/erself ‘better’ than someone because he or she follows a different path is in serious danger of being guilty of spiritual darwinism.
July 19th, 2005 at 11:21 pm
You can’t judge the road by the people on it…there are plenty of dumb ‘magicians’ and plenty of pretty damn smart fundies (i’ve me t a few who were pretty ‘aware,’ as it were). Magicians gripe about ‘fundies’ because they are the identifiable adversary of their belief systems. At the risk of invoking the ‘no true Scotsman’ fallacy, I’d venture that most of the folks bragging about their ’specialness’ are deluded.
I’ve never seen fundies as the ‘real’ danger, as it’s really dogma, especially the politicized kind that makes it more of a social accessory than a search for knowledge, that’s the harm. Most of the people I’ve known who were truly seeking after God showed it, regardless of their method or mythology. Those who weren’t did a lot of talking, usually aboiut other people.
July 19th, 2005 at 11:51 pm
most people are pretty normal.. everywhere…
loves, hates, happy, sad. joy, pain… pretty normal usually i reckon
July 20th, 2005 at 12:06 am
great posts. i had been worried that this community was turning into the “battle of the the inquisitions”. the wisdom of your unrelenting questioning reminds us that the “enemy” is in the mirror.
the first rule of behavioural generalisation: there are less differences between groups than within groups.
christains, occultists, lawyers and rockstars all come in every conceivable behavioural flavour. that’s what’s great about being an individual. i can join a group and still be one.
one’s image of what an occultist is may be better than one’s image of a christain, but that says more about one’s perception of the world (and one’s self) than any objective reality. when we makes value judgements based upon comparisons of ideas that exist only in our heads, then we are none of us immune to self-righteousness and petty bickering.
the second rule of behavioural generalisation: difference does not necessitate conflict.
which group do i think is the coolest? who really gives a fuck?
there are idiots everywhere. i’m one of them.
ps. jeremy, that also means that buckets of dog shit are not better than evil analysts!
July 20th, 2005 at 12:11 am
had to laugh, reading back my post it sounds like: i never say anything’s “better” than anything else, and if you do then i’m better than you.
none of us immune
July 20th, 2005 at 12:12 am
I should have added that many occultists (and liberals) accuse Fundmantalist Christians typically of the following:
- Hatred / Bigotry
- Narrow (or simple) Mindedness
- Resistance to new experiences
- Too strong reliance on authority
- Not practicing what you preach
I think the thing that people are losing sight of though is that these are HUMAN flaws which come out among all people everywhere, regardless of race, religion or creed
July 20th, 2005 at 12:22 am
As far as my understanding of the word “occult” allows, I believe that an occultist is anyone actively seeking hidden knowledge. So religious fundamentalism and occultism aren’t mutually exclusive. Someone studying the so-called Bible Code is a good example of a “fundamentalist occultist”.
I think autodidacts are better than those who proceed rank and file through whatever sanctioned system in order to validate their worth to society.
July 20th, 2005 at 12:30 am
[…] t are fucking brilliant as hell. Today’s award goes to Carlos for his comments on my post about occultists and Christians. His enti […]
July 20th, 2005 at 12:50 am
[…] my FAQ page!
Is Self-Taught Better?
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July 20th, 2005 at 2:26 am
This is definitely the case, but is not exclusive to religious peoples. This seems to be so with any persons in a big enough system, where a strong hierarchy exists, and the majority of things flow downward instead of up.
Also, larger systems in order to maintain their power, attempt to vilify the individual in ways that individuals are willing to accept. They do this and act as if it (the system) is the only intermediary to what they seek, and without this system in place, all would be chaos.
True. Certain systems breed these traits moreso, and any power structure attempts to maintain and expand itself. When the system one is under sees itself as more effective only when it has large numbers, what better traits to have your followers wear than those? The Democrats are a growing example of this (somewhat), in that they keep saying “if we can only gain more converts, more people to follow our cause, THEN we can make a difference.” Too much time is spent trying to expand oneself, instead of realizing the similarities between persons and allowing people to form their own affinity groups. Bah, bit of a tangent.
July 20th, 2005 at 10:31 am
groups and organisations, as they expand, become self-serving. garrett hardin wrote a little book called filters against folly that helped me to quantify this process. he noted that groups, as they approach a certain size, he put a boundary at 150 people or so, go from being externally oriented to being self-protecting. in other words, a charity, for instance, goes from fund-raising to lobbying and administration. governments go from declaration of independance to militarising the police.
July 20th, 2005 at 11:56 am
hee hee, you’re right of course (carlos is talking about this post):
http://www.snant.com/fp/archives/costco-not-evil-enough-for-analysts/
but, as a writer, i reserve the right to hyperbolize to make a point. i guess there’s a little bit of bill hicks in me.