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	<title>Comments on: Is Dissent Really Dangerous?</title>
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	<pubDate>Sun, 22 Nov 2009 11:44:17 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: alistair</title>
		<link>http://www.timboucher.com/journal/2005/07/20/is-dissent-really-dangerous/comment-page-1/#comment-3758</link>
		<dc:creator>alistair</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 22 Jul 2005 20:49:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.timboucher.com/journal/2005/07/20/is-dissent-really-dangerous/#comment-3758</guid>
		<description>wouldn`t learning to be a better chessplayer be a good strategy? and what does raising ones consciousness entail, studying logic, meditation, chess board manufacture?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>wouldn`t learning to be a better chessplayer be a good strategy? and what does raising ones consciousness entail, studying logic, meditation, chess board manufacture?</p>
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		<title>By: zacharius</title>
		<link>http://www.timboucher.com/journal/2005/07/20/is-dissent-really-dangerous/comment-page-1/#comment-3757</link>
		<dc:creator>zacharius</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 22 Jul 2005 20:08:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.timboucher.com/journal/2005/07/20/is-dissent-really-dangerous/#comment-3757</guid>
		<description>i think that's a good point, but you also need to consider that 'the chessboard' is our world and everything in it, including everything and every one we care about. so while i agree wholeheartedly that raising consciousness ought to be piority one, we then need to take that consciousness and use it to bring our chess game to a higher level.

 you can't really play the game until you're free to walk away from it. otherwise it's playing you.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>i think that&#8217;s a good point, but you also need to consider that &#8216;the chessboard&#8217; is our world and everything in it, including everything and every one we care about. so while i agree wholeheartedly that raising consciousness ought to be piority one, we then need to take that consciousness and use it to bring our chess game to a higher level.</p>
<p> you can&#8217;t really play the game until you&#8217;re free to walk away from it. otherwise it&#8217;s playing you.</p>
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		<title>By: alistair</title>
		<link>http://www.timboucher.com/journal/2005/07/20/is-dissent-really-dangerous/comment-page-1/#comment-3755</link>
		<dc:creator>alistair</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 22 Jul 2005 19:51:38 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>what chess board are we focussing on that we need to be led off?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>what chess board are we focussing on that we need to be led off?</p>
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		<title>By: Occult Investigator</title>
		<link>http://www.timboucher.com/journal/2005/07/20/is-dissent-really-dangerous/comment-page-1/#comment-3651</link>
		<dc:creator>Occult Investigator</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 Jul 2005 16:41:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.timboucher.com/journal/2005/07/20/is-dissent-really-dangerous/#comment-3651</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;dissent does become dangerous, however, when it erects signposts that lead off of the chessboard.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

yes!!!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>dissent does become dangerous, however, when it erects signposts that lead off of the chessboard.</p></blockquote>
<p>yes!!!</p>
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		<title>By: J. Puma</title>
		<link>http://www.timboucher.com/journal/2005/07/20/is-dissent-really-dangerous/comment-page-1/#comment-3650</link>
		<dc:creator>J. Puma</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 Jul 2005 16:37:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.timboucher.com/journal/2005/07/20/is-dissent-really-dangerous/#comment-3650</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;i think we were rounded up like cattle a long time ago.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

excellent point.  i think that if 'they' decide to round 'us' up like cattle, it won't look anything like it's looked in the past. they'll be more deceptive.

as to whether dissent is really dangerous, imho it's only really dangerous in the context of their little game.  like, the really 'dangerous' radicals are still die-hard ideologues, and only when the conspiracy theorists start using the con's terminology do they become dangerous.  like let's look at right-wing militias.  they're dangerous when they consider themselves 'right wing,' because it's part of the game. or 'islamic terrorists'-- same deal.

as for me, tho', i've never, ever seen any evidence at all that dissent in the form of conspiracy theory has ever had any direct effect on the higher echelons of society.  ever.  i'm willing to entertain examples, but i tend to think that your average conspiracy theorist, right or wrong, is like a gnat (hell, a swarm of gnats) attacking a panzer division.  

dissent does become dangerous, however, when it erects signposts that lead off of the chessboard.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>i think we were rounded up like cattle a long time ago.</p></blockquote>
<p>excellent point.  i think that if &#8216;they&#8217; decide to round &#8216;us&#8217; up like cattle, it won&#8217;t look anything like it&#8217;s looked in the past. they&#8217;ll be more deceptive.</p>
<p>as to whether dissent is really dangerous, imho it&#8217;s only really dangerous in the context of their little game.  like, the really &#8216;dangerous&#8217; radicals are still die-hard ideologues, and only when the conspiracy theorists start using the con&#8217;s terminology do they become dangerous.  like let&#8217;s look at right-wing militias.  they&#8217;re dangerous when they consider themselves &#8216;right wing,&#8217; because it&#8217;s part of the game. or &#8216;islamic terrorists&#8217;&#8211; same deal.</p>
<p>as for me, tho&#8217;, i&#8217;ve never, ever seen any evidence at all that dissent in the form of conspiracy theory has ever had any direct effect on the higher echelons of society.  ever.  i&#8217;m willing to entertain examples, but i tend to think that your average conspiracy theorist, right or wrong, is like a gnat (hell, a swarm of gnats) attacking a panzer division.  </p>
<p>dissent does become dangerous, however, when it erects signposts that lead off of the chessboard.</p>
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		<title>By: Occult Investigator</title>
		<link>http://www.timboucher.com/journal/2005/07/20/is-dissent-really-dangerous/comment-page-1/#comment-3636</link>
		<dc:creator>Occult Investigator</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 Jul 2005 03:59:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.timboucher.com/journal/2005/07/20/is-dissent-really-dangerous/#comment-3636</guid>
		<description>Yeah thats a really good point about pressure and releasing the safety valve. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yeah thats a really good point about pressure and releasing the safety valve.</p>
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		<title>By: alistair</title>
		<link>http://www.timboucher.com/journal/2005/07/20/is-dissent-really-dangerous/comment-page-1/#comment-3635</link>
		<dc:creator>alistair</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 Jul 2005 03:23:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.timboucher.com/journal/2005/07/20/is-dissent-really-dangerous/#comment-3635</guid>
		<description>i think we were rounded up like cattle a long time ago. the polarising nature of debate isn`t so much neutral as zero sum. winners and losers. dead and alive. it`s the rhythm of life. energy wants to move. it`s never neutral, except maybe in the absolute cold of space, but even then there is the electro-magnetic effects, gravity and inertia.
as for dissent. i see it as a safety valve. a pop-off, so that when pressure mounts, politically or socially, then the newsprint flys and the marches are undertaken. i remember when ronald reagan came to toronto my friend the cop showed me a book of faces of political types (radicals,known subversives, etc.) who`s faces he had to memorise in case he saw them in a crowd around the president.
it`s all about control.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>i think we were rounded up like cattle a long time ago. the polarising nature of debate isn`t so much neutral as zero sum. winners and losers. dead and alive. it`s the rhythm of life. energy wants to move. it`s never neutral, except maybe in the absolute cold of space, but even then there is the electro-magnetic effects, gravity and inertia.<br />
as for dissent. i see it as a safety valve. a pop-off, so that when pressure mounts, politically or socially, then the newsprint flys and the marches are undertaken. i remember when ronald reagan came to toronto my friend the cop showed me a book of faces of political types (radicals,known subversives, etc.) who`s faces he had to memorise in case he saw them in a crowd around the president.<br />
it`s all about control.</p>
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		<title>By: Occult Investigator</title>
		<link>http://www.timboucher.com/journal/2005/07/20/is-dissent-really-dangerous/comment-page-1/#comment-3634</link>
		<dc:creator>Occult Investigator</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 Jul 2005 02:50:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.timboucher.com/journal/2005/07/20/is-dissent-really-dangerous/#comment-3634</guid>
		<description>I see what you're saying Ran. Wasn't really a major point of this essay though. Was more just something I was considering as I was going through the paces of the idea...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I see what you&#8217;re saying Ran. Wasn&#8217;t really a major point of this essay though. Was more just something I was considering as I was going through the paces of the idea&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Ran</title>
		<link>http://www.timboucher.com/journal/2005/07/20/is-dissent-really-dangerous/comment-page-1/#comment-3633</link>
		<dc:creator>Ran</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 Jul 2005 02:47:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.timboucher.com/journal/2005/07/20/is-dissent-really-dangerous/#comment-3633</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;...a new technology always expands to cover all itâ€™s possible uses, both positive and negative. For example, atomic fission was used for both the creation of bombs and power plants. Such expansion seems largely inavoidable, and the point is that the technology itself is inherently neutral.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Expansion to cover all uses is not at all the same as neutral. Doing both good and bad things is also not the same as neutral. Was Ted Bundy neutral because he was sometimes nice to people? Even atomic power does a lot of harm and no good that can't be done some other way. My point is that the word "neutral" doesn't make any sense at all in this context. By a reasonable definition of neutral, there has never been a neutral technology or a neutral idea. Every technology and every idea is different, with its own web of alliances and effects.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>&#8230;a new technology always expands to cover all itâ€™s possible uses, both positive and negative. For example, atomic fission was used for both the creation of bombs and power plants. Such expansion seems largely inavoidable, and the point is that the technology itself is inherently neutral.</p></blockquote>
<p>Expansion to cover all uses is not at all the same as neutral. Doing both good and bad things is also not the same as neutral. Was Ted Bundy neutral because he was sometimes nice to people? Even atomic power does a lot of harm and no good that can&#8217;t be done some other way. My point is that the word &#8220;neutral&#8221; doesn&#8217;t make any sense at all in this context. By a reasonable definition of neutral, there has never been a neutral technology or a neutral idea. Every technology and every idea is different, with its own web of alliances and effects.</p>
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		<title>By: rg</title>
		<link>http://www.timboucher.com/journal/2005/07/20/is-dissent-really-dangerous/comment-page-1/#comment-3630</link>
		<dc:creator>rg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 Jul 2005 01:57:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.timboucher.com/journal/2005/07/20/is-dissent-really-dangerous/#comment-3630</guid>
		<description>in 1981 i enrolled as a grad student in political economy at the new school for social research in new york city.  i regarded myself as a socialist of some kind at the time, and i was especially interested in robert heilbroner, many of whose books i had read and which i continue to admire today.

the chairman of the department was a handsome young fellow named david gordon, who taught the big introductory lecture course which we all had to take.  repeatedly he would raise an issue and then specify for us exactly the nature of "the debates" over that issue.  the debates, of course, always contested small pieces of far-left conceptual turf.

in a similar spirit, early in the semester gordon announced to the class that there was going to be a party at his tomkins square townhouse on an upcoming saturday night where we could all get to know each other.  there was going to be food and drink, and, to prove that we radicals knew how to have as much fun as anyone else, there was going to be dancing.

the party was fine, as i recall, but the funny thing was that although they played plenty of hard-driving rock from gordon's sixties heyday, nobody danced.

gordon was not the only one who prescribed and proscibed our thoughts.  when it came time to start writing those big term papers around mid-november, i dropped out.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>in 1981 i enrolled as a grad student in political economy at the new school for social research in new york city.  i regarded myself as a socialist of some kind at the time, and i was especially interested in robert heilbroner, many of whose books i had read and which i continue to admire today.</p>
<p>the chairman of the department was a handsome young fellow named david gordon, who taught the big introductory lecture course which we all had to take.  repeatedly he would raise an issue and then specify for us exactly the nature of &#8220;the debates&#8221; over that issue.  the debates, of course, always contested small pieces of far-left conceptual turf.</p>
<p>in a similar spirit, early in the semester gordon announced to the class that there was going to be a party at his tomkins square townhouse on an upcoming saturday night where we could all get to know each other.  there was going to be food and drink, and, to prove that we radicals knew how to have as much fun as anyone else, there was going to be dancing.</p>
<p>the party was fine, as i recall, but the funny thing was that although they played plenty of hard-driving rock from gordon&#8217;s sixties heyday, nobody danced.</p>
<p>gordon was not the only one who prescribed and proscibed our thoughts.  when it came time to start writing those big term papers around mid-november, i dropped out.</p>
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