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	<title>Comments on: Darwin&#8217;s Cousin</title>
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	<pubDate>Sun, 22 Nov 2009 14:05:38 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Mishka Zena &#187; Blog Archive &#187; AGB&#8217;s Shameful Legacy: Hitler</title>
		<link>http://www.timboucher.com/journal/2005/07/22/darwins-cousin/comment-page-1/#comment-53902</link>
		<dc:creator>Mishka Zena &#187; Blog Archive &#187; AGB&#8217;s Shameful Legacy: Hitler</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 Mar 2007 17:38:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.timboucher.com/journal/2005/07/22/darwins-cousin/#comment-53902</guid>
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] <a href="http://www.timboucher.com/journal/2005/07/22/darwins-cousin/" rel="nofollow"></a><a href='http://www.timboucher.com/journal/2005/07/22/darwins-cousin/'>http://www.timboucher.com/journal/2005/07/22/darwins-cousin/</a> [...]</p>
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		<title>By: alistair</title>
		<link>http://www.timboucher.com/journal/2005/07/22/darwins-cousin/comment-page-1/#comment-3831</link>
		<dc:creator>alistair</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 24 Jul 2005 18:00:02 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>in a modern post-agrarian society we can afford to be altruistic. if you aren`t able to work on the farm you won`t be fed. just ask a farmer. farmers don`t even keep pets. there are also very few animal rights activists and environmental types in farm communities. socialism is urban behaviour. unless the farmer is getting farm subsidies they tend to be conservative.  and regarding evolution, please show where humans have ever evolved. 
hitler`s ideal aryan race wouldn`t have survived by diluting the gene pool with members of other races. his ideal was untenable biologically, as was the victorian aristocratic haemophiliacs. they become genetic dead ends. idiology always goes that way.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>in a modern post-agrarian society we can afford to be altruistic. if you aren`t able to work on the farm you won`t be fed. just ask a farmer. farmers don`t even keep pets. there are also very few animal rights activists and environmental types in farm communities. socialism is urban behaviour. unless the farmer is getting farm subsidies they tend to be conservative.  and regarding evolution, please show where humans have ever evolved.<br />
hitler`s ideal aryan race wouldn`t have survived by diluting the gene pool with members of other races. his ideal was untenable biologically, as was the victorian aristocratic haemophiliacs. they become genetic dead ends. idiology always goes that way.</p>
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		<title>By: Occult Investigator</title>
		<link>http://www.timboucher.com/journal/2005/07/22/darwins-cousin/comment-page-1/#comment-3805</link>
		<dc:creator>Occult Investigator</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 23 Jul 2005 16:59:50 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Hm, those are good points. This is really a huge topic</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hm, those are good points. This is really a huge topic</p>
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		<title>By: Haeresis</title>
		<link>http://www.timboucher.com/journal/2005/07/22/darwins-cousin/comment-page-1/#comment-3793</link>
		<dc:creator>Haeresis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 23 Jul 2005 07:21:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.timboucher.com/journal/2005/07/22/darwins-cousin/#comment-3793</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;I have often thought in the past about how many people in civilization have genetic traits which would be completely unviable in wild nature. For example, poor eyesight is an obvious and uncontroversial one. &lt;/blockquote&gt;

Perhaps and perhaps not.  Technicaly, we are just as much in "wild nature" as we ever were, as least when speaking of adaptation- and many of the things we believe are "strengths" or advntages are not necessarily. For example, if you're a large, agressive grasshopper, you might have a mating advantage over a smal, wcowardly one- but you also might get eaten by a bird.  In evolution, it is usually one trait or a small number that are crucial during critical evolutionary periods.  Sharp eyesight is not necessarily a survival mechanism today 9or not so much as before), so it isn't being selected for.  Generaly speaking, an evolutionary advantage goes to whoever can have babies, or more babies, so only those traits which are relevant at the time ever matter.  

The problem with eugenics and Nazi Darwinism is, they thought that a) evolution was progressive (it isn't- it's purely adaptive), and that they could project an "ideal" state.  Since it was already assumed that certain races were 'inferior,' they went with an idealized race based on ancestry, because that 'race' was automatically 'strong' and was being overrun by 'babying' the 'inferior' races.  This was one reason Hitler despised social welfare systems.  Of course, had they sicceeded, they wouldn't have created a "super race," they'd have shrunk the available gene pool, which is KEY to successful adaptation.  More and more varied genes mean more chances for survival.

Sure, someone handicapped isn't going to make it if they suddenly become a leopard- but one of humanity's adaptive traits is that we are social, and we care for one another, giving even the "weaker" some chance at survival.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>I have often thought in the past about how many people in civilization have genetic traits which would be completely unviable in wild nature. For example, poor eyesight is an obvious and uncontroversial one. </p></blockquote>
<p>Perhaps and perhaps not.  Technicaly, we are just as much in &#8220;wild nature&#8221; as we ever were, as least when speaking of adaptation- and many of the things we believe are &#8220;strengths&#8221; or advntages are not necessarily. For example, if you&#8217;re a large, agressive grasshopper, you might have a mating advantage over a smal, wcowardly one- but you also might get eaten by a bird.  In evolution, it is usually one trait or a small number that are crucial during critical evolutionary periods.  Sharp eyesight is not necessarily a survival mechanism today 9or not so much as before), so it isn&#8217;t being selected for.  Generaly speaking, an evolutionary advantage goes to whoever can have babies, or more babies, so only those traits which are relevant at the time ever matter.  </p>
<p>The problem with eugenics and Nazi Darwinism is, they thought that a) evolution was progressive (it isn&#8217;t- it&#8217;s purely adaptive), and that they could project an &#8220;ideal&#8221; state.  Since it was already assumed that certain races were &#8216;inferior,&#8217; they went with an idealized race based on ancestry, because that &#8216;race&#8217; was automatically &#8217;strong&#8217; and was being overrun by &#8216;babying&#8217; the &#8216;inferior&#8217; races.  This was one reason Hitler despised social welfare systems.  Of course, had they sicceeded, they wouldn&#8217;t have created a &#8220;super race,&#8221; they&#8217;d have shrunk the available gene pool, which is KEY to successful adaptation.  More and more varied genes mean more chances for survival.</p>
<p>Sure, someone handicapped isn&#8217;t going to make it if they suddenly become a leopard- but one of humanity&#8217;s adaptive traits is that we are social, and we care for one another, giving even the &#8220;weaker&#8221; some chance at survival.</p>
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		<title>By: Thomas Conlon</title>
		<link>http://www.timboucher.com/journal/2005/07/22/darwins-cousin/comment-page-1/#comment-3781</link>
		<dc:creator>Thomas Conlon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 23 Jul 2005 03:08:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.timboucher.com/journal/2005/07/22/darwins-cousin/#comment-3781</guid>
		<description>&lt;a href="http://rexcurry.net/pledgeban.html" rel="nofollow"&gt;Breathe deep the gathering gloom/watch lights fade from every room&lt;/a&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://rexcurry.net/pledgeban.html" rel="nofollow">Breathe deep the gathering gloom/watch lights fade from every room</a></p>
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		<title>By: Arizona</title>
		<link>http://www.timboucher.com/journal/2005/07/22/darwins-cousin/comment-page-1/#comment-3761</link>
		<dc:creator>Arizona</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 22 Jul 2005 21:20:19 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;based on Darwinâ€™s work Origin of the Species&lt;/blockquote&gt;
Tim, the book title is &lt;em&gt;The Origin of Species&lt;/em&gt; and the tiny detail of the placement of the "the" really does make a difference.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>based on Darwinâ€™s work Origin of the Species</p></blockquote>
<p>Tim, the book title is <em>The Origin of Species</em> and the tiny detail of the placement of the &#8220;the&#8221; really does make a difference.</p>
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		<title>By: alistair</title>
		<link>http://www.timboucher.com/journal/2005/07/22/darwins-cousin/comment-page-1/#comment-3751</link>
		<dc:creator>alistair</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 22 Jul 2005 19:25:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.timboucher.com/journal/2005/07/22/darwins-cousin/#comment-3751</guid>
		<description>what is it actually called?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>what is it actually called?</p>
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		<title>By: prunesquallor</title>
		<link>http://www.timboucher.com/journal/2005/07/22/darwins-cousin/comment-page-1/#comment-3750</link>
		<dc:creator>prunesquallor</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 22 Jul 2005 18:44:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.timboucher.com/journal/2005/07/22/darwins-cousin/#comment-3750</guid>
		<description>The mistake of the eugenicists is to conflate selection at the genetic level for selection at the level of the individual organism. Actual genes are selected for, not any individual or individual trait. They have mistaken the vessel for the message.

Similarly, the western ideas of dialectic and debate conflate the subconceptual memetic level with the conceptual level of "ideas." You often hear things like "Ideas compete in the marketplace," but the "archetypal" concepts, which form the "genome" of an idea may be  what are actually competing.

(O.T. but I was reminded of a really interesting book I have called "The Geography of Thought," which compares the thought-habits of Asian and English subjects. I couldn't have imagined anyone ever responding in the ways the Asians did in some experiments.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The mistake of the eugenicists is to conflate selection at the genetic level for selection at the level of the individual organism. Actual genes are selected for, not any individual or individual trait. They have mistaken the vessel for the message.</p>
<p>Similarly, the western ideas of dialectic and debate conflate the subconceptual memetic level with the conceptual level of &#8220;ideas.&#8221; You often hear things like &#8220;Ideas compete in the marketplace,&#8221; but the &#8220;archetypal&#8221; concepts, which form the &#8220;genome&#8221; of an idea may be  what are actually competing.</p>
<p>(O.T. but I was reminded of a really interesting book I have called &#8220;The Geography of Thought,&#8221; which compares the thought-habits of Asian and English subjects. I couldn&#8217;t have imagined anyone ever responding in the ways the Asians did in some experiments.)</p>
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		<title>By: zacharius</title>
		<link>http://www.timboucher.com/journal/2005/07/22/darwins-cousin/comment-page-1/#comment-3745</link>
		<dc:creator>zacharius</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 22 Jul 2005 17:31:57 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>most of this stuff strikes me as flawed science applied to a real problem, which is the decline of culture and of human beings themselves. obviously this version is the perspective of inbred victorian haemophiliacs ruling a declining empire, but the pattern is similar throughout history.

 it wasn't until later that science established the mind as the overriding factor in achievement, and most culutres are so deeply racist they preffer not to fully acknowledge that fact.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>most of this stuff strikes me as flawed science applied to a real problem, which is the decline of culture and of human beings themselves. obviously this version is the perspective of inbred victorian haemophiliacs ruling a declining empire, but the pattern is similar throughout history.</p>
<p> it wasn&#8217;t until later that science established the mind as the overriding factor in achievement, and most culutres are so deeply racist they preffer not to fully acknowledge that fact.</p>
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