Jeffrey from Sisyphus and the Cuckoo Clock Speech raised a really good question in the comments to a previous post. Actually, it wasn’t so much a question as it was an assertion:
I think people who believe in God are wrong, seeking comfort in a simplistic idea of the world.
As I love to turn things into a question, I think this one can be broken down into several parts.
- Does a belief in God present you with a simplisitic idea of the world?
- Is that belief necessarily comforting?
- Is it wrong to want to be comfortable and to put things into a perspective that one can individually grasp?
- Is this really even an accurate statement to begin with? Is this really why people believe in God?
My own answers are: No, no, no and… no. What are yours?
- END -
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My answers are the same as yours, but I’ll provide my reasoning (or lack of):
Does a belief in God present you with a simplisitic idea of the world? No, if anything it complicates things greatly because the next logical question is, WHY did God create us? I don’t know if I ever want to know the answer to THAT one…
Is that belief necessarily comforting? No, it’s not. If he exists and is merely refusing to show himself, that doesn’t offer me ANY consolation at all.
Is it wrong to want to be comfortable and to put things into a perspective that one can individually grasp? No, it’s not. What IS objectionable is putting personal comfort and convenience before all other things, including other people.
Is this really even an accurate statement to begin with? Is this really why people believe in God? No, it’s not. To consider a viewpoint ‘wrong’ is to introduce a kind of morality into the debate. I don’t think either a belief in God or atheism has anything to do with ethics or morality– it’s a metaphysical, philosophical issue, and anyone who draws a moral distinction– whether it be Jerry Falwell or Madelyn Murray O’Hare –is drawing from personal emotions rather than open-minded thinking.
Well damn, those are pretty accurate in terms of my own reasons as well, so I’ll just let it stand at that.
geez, that’s a simplistic idea. must be comforting.
Hm. I have to stop slacking and rush off to work, fellas, but I will say a few things.
That first line was a throwaway, and I certainly didn’t intend or conceive that it would be the only thing in my comment people would pay attention to.
My belief that theism is simplistic is informed by my own psychological needs and prejudices, just as surely as the beliefs of various kinds of theists are informed by their own.
It is simplistic in that, whatever the big question, God is the big answer. Simplicity isn’t inherently bad, nor is the desire for comfort. We all desire comfort. And the reason I see the idea of God as inherently comforting to believers is that, absent a direct communication from the Deity, a believer can (and usually will) assume s/he is (or at least knows for sure how to get) on “the right side of God.” This is not entirely true, and I realize the issues are more complex than can be explained in a couple of short paragraphs.
But you know what? Everybody makes judgment, considers those who disagree with them “wrong,” assumes a smug self-assuring attitude now and then, perhaps especially when they want to toss something off and move on to talking about something more interesting.
If you want, you can pick out a single line from this and pick it apart as though it’s important. These words are yours to play with now.
I don’t know if that was a sarcastic response of not. I’m just going to ignore that component if that’s the case. Anyway, get over it. I’m not picking on you or selectively using your words against you. I thought it was an interesting topic, and you just so happened to bring it up, so I ran with it. Case closed. You still said it either way
My apologies for any offense, Tim. Yes, of course, you quoted me correctly. I just don’t believe the other commenters (carlos, and to a lesser extent james) bothered to look at the context in which my quote was found, and I mistakenly took it personally.
Okay. I’m just saying the original context is irrelevant though, because I made it into it’s own post - thus putting it into it’s own context as a topic of discussion. And I think it’s a great topic of discussion and I think there’s been some great points made all around.
Any concept of God is an imagined comfort.
However, the ancients did not deny non-conceptual thought like we do. (see nous)
If we don’t imperiously imagine ourselves to be greater and wiser than Plato (for instance, and I feel confident in saying that I am not) then we should not be afraid to provisionally defer to them.
“Provisionally”, because we should never accept blindly anything we are told; we must investigate for ourselves.
“Defer”, because we know the world is wide and old and that people are not really smarter than they used to be. We should therefore take the most respected thinkers seriously. We should attempt to understand what they meant by what they wrote in the time they lived.
If we respect ourselves and our predecessors, we will not be afraid to investigate topics like “God”. Adults can entertain ideas while reserving judgement on them.
sorry jeffrey, i have a habit of using sarcasm to shake ideas loose, i don’t mean to be a complete jerk about it. but i had a similar conversation with an atheist friend once who’d made the “belief in god is simplistic comfort” argument. although i was also an atheist at the time, i asked him if he found any comfort in the thought that upon death the lights simply go out and you can finally rest? isn’t that a comforting response to the perceived terror of divine judgement, or of a vast spiritual immortality?
he said: yes, i’m surprised to admit it but i guess i do find that comforting, to finally stop.
my point is that any model of the world is adopted to a degree on the basis of comfort. not all of us are prepared to wear a crown of thorns.
that’s a really healthy attitude, but really, how many adults do you know? i for one have a nasty habit of making ideas feel unwelcome, much less entertained!
time to work on my manners.