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	<title>Comments on: Myths of Masonry, Part 4</title>
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	<link>http://www.timboucher.com/journal/2005/09/03/myths-of-masonry-part-4/</link>
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	<pubDate>Sun, 08 Nov 2009 18:38:58 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: tal</title>
		<link>http://www.timboucher.com/journal/2005/09/03/myths-of-masonry-part-4/comment-page-1/#comment-5515</link>
		<dc:creator>tal</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 Sep 2005 10:05:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.timboucher.com/journal/2005/09/03/myths-of-masonry-part-4/#comment-5515</guid>
		<description>  While I don't know much about Pike,  in  "The Karma of Untruthfulness"  Rudolf Steiner lectures on the roots of 'the Great War'  going back to the last third of the 19th century.  He also excoriates secret societies and implicates them in much behind-the-scenes activity.  Unfortunately,  the book is not online but I have posted some excerpts in the 

http://p216.ezboard.com/frigorousintuitionfrm9.showMessage?topicID=45.topic at Rigorous Intuition.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>While I don&#8217;t know much about Pike,  in  &#8220;The Karma of Untruthfulness&#8221;  Rudolf Steiner lectures on the roots of &#8216;the Great War&#8217;  going back to the last third of the 19th century.  He also excoriates secret societies and implicates them in much behind-the-scenes activity.  Unfortunately,  the book is not online but I have posted some excerpts in the </p>
<p><a href="http://p216.ezboard.com/frigorousintuitionfrm9.showMessage?topicID=45.topic" rel="nofollow"></a><a href='http://p216.ezboard.com/frigorousintuitionfrm9.showMessage?topicID=45.topic'>http://p216.ezboard.com/frigorousintuitionfrm9.showMessage?topicID=45.topic</a> at Rigorous Intuition.</p>
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		<title>By: Tim Boucher</title>
		<link>http://www.timboucher.com/journal/2005/09/03/myths-of-masonry-part-4/comment-page-1/#comment-5467</link>
		<dc:creator>Tim Boucher</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 04 Sep 2005 16:23:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.timboucher.com/journal/2005/09/03/myths-of-masonry-part-4/#comment-5467</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;They always just took him at his word, because he told them what they wanted to hear&lt;/blockquote&gt;

That's a great line, and lots of other great insights as well. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>They always just took him at his word, because he told them what they wanted to hear</p></blockquote>
<p>That&#8217;s a great line, and lots of other great insights as well.</p>
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		<title>By: Terry</title>
		<link>http://www.timboucher.com/journal/2005/09/03/myths-of-masonry-part-4/comment-page-1/#comment-5463</link>
		<dc:creator>Terry</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 04 Sep 2005 13:24:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.timboucher.com/journal/2005/09/03/myths-of-masonry-part-4/#comment-5463</guid>
		<description>The whole Pike/Mazzini correspondence is a hoax, and there is no such thing as the Palladian Rite. It was perpetrated by Leo Taxil to embarrass the Church and make fools out of christians who believed it. Good links here for further study:

- &lt;a href="http://www.atheists.org/Atheism/roots/enlightenment/" rel="nofollow"&gt;The Enlightenment, Freemasonry, and The Illuminati&lt;/a&gt;
- &lt;a href="http://www.casebook.org/dissertations/freemasonry/anti2.html" rel="nofollow"&gt;Leo Taxil and Anti-Masonry&lt;/a&gt;

Lady Queenborough and William Guy Carr made up shit all the time when the facts didn't fit their agenda. Carr is particularly abhorrent as a researcher - completely inept as an historian - and he lies to his readers on nearly every page. The WW3 site says the 3 world wars shtick comes from Carr's book; Carr in turn says he got it from the Cardinal Of Chile's book, &lt;em&gt;The Mystery Of Freemasonry Unveiled&lt;/em&gt;. The latter was published in 1928, with the former penned in the late 1950s. It can be settled definitively one way or another by checking Carr's source. 

In the 1920s the Nazi Party was in existence but to say:
&lt;em&gt;"The Second World War must be fomented by taking advantage of the differences between the Fascists and the political Zionists. This war must be brought about so that Nazism is destroyed and that the political Zionism be strong enough to institute a sovereign state of Israel in Palestine. During the Second World War, International Communism must become strong enough in order to balance Christendom, which would be then restrained and held in check until the time when we would need it for the final social cataclysm."&lt;/em&gt;
would be quite a stretch. The First World War "prediction" is easy, as the Cardinal had already lived through it. I believe Carr made up the second prediction from his advantage of hindsight in the 1950s - which means he lied again. The best part about it though, is that it can be verified by reading &lt;em&gt;The Mystery Of Freemasonry Unveiled&lt;/em&gt;. I wouldn't put it past Carr to have made the whole thing up himself, and probably no mention of the Pike quotes are made in the Cardinal's book. The type of readership he catered too, would have allowed him such a luxory. He knew they wouldn't even bother to check, as they never had before anyway. They always just took him at his word, because he told them what they wanted to hear: "The Synagogue of Satan" has formented the "World Revolutionary Movement" throughout the centuries in an effort to usher in the antichrist with the Jews and godless illuminati at its head.

James Russell Says: 
&lt;blockquote&gt;If this letter did name Nazism in 1871 that would be quite impressive, but to have identified Communism at that date doesnâ€™t actually mean much. The Communist Manifesto had already been published in 1848 so the word was in use by then.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Communism as an ideology, and as a coined phrase, originates in France during the Revolution. First through Restif and then the Babeuvist conspirators. Actually, in 1785, Restif coined the phrase four years before revolution broke out. Restif and Babeuf, in turn, were influenced by Rousseau - as was the most famous conspirator of them all, &lt;a href="http://www.conspiracyarchive.com/NWO/Illuminati.htm" rel="nofollow"&gt;Adam Weishaupt&lt;/a&gt;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The whole Pike/Mazzini correspondence is a hoax, and there is no such thing as the Palladian Rite. It was perpetrated by Leo Taxil to embarrass the Church and make fools out of christians who believed it. Good links here for further study:</p>
<p>- <a href="http://www.atheists.org/Atheism/roots/enlightenment/" rel="nofollow">The Enlightenment, Freemasonry, and The Illuminati</a><br />
- <a href="http://www.casebook.org/dissertations/freemasonry/anti2.html" rel="nofollow">Leo Taxil and Anti-Masonry</a></p>
<p>Lady Queenborough and William Guy Carr made up shit all the time when the facts didn&#8217;t fit their agenda. Carr is particularly abhorrent as a researcher - completely inept as an historian - and he lies to his readers on nearly every page. The WW3 site says the 3 world wars shtick comes from Carr&#8217;s book; Carr in turn says he got it from the Cardinal Of Chile&#8217;s book, <em>The Mystery Of Freemasonry Unveiled</em>. The latter was published in 1928, with the former penned in the late 1950s. It can be settled definitively one way or another by checking Carr&#8217;s source. </p>
<p>In the 1920s the Nazi Party was in existence but to say:<br />
<em>&#8220;The Second World War must be fomented by taking advantage of the differences between the Fascists and the political Zionists. This war must be brought about so that Nazism is destroyed and that the political Zionism be strong enough to institute a sovereign state of Israel in Palestine. During the Second World War, International Communism must become strong enough in order to balance Christendom, which would be then restrained and held in check until the time when we would need it for the final social cataclysm.&#8221;</em><br />
would be quite a stretch. The First World War &#8220;prediction&#8221; is easy, as the Cardinal had already lived through it. I believe Carr made up the second prediction from his advantage of hindsight in the 1950s - which means he lied again. The best part about it though, is that it can be verified by reading <em>The Mystery Of Freemasonry Unveiled</em>. I wouldn&#8217;t put it past Carr to have made the whole thing up himself, and probably no mention of the Pike quotes are made in the Cardinal&#8217;s book. The type of readership he catered too, would have allowed him such a luxory. He knew they wouldn&#8217;t even bother to check, as they never had before anyway. They always just took him at his word, because he told them what they wanted to hear: &#8220;The Synagogue of Satan&#8221; has formented the &#8220;World Revolutionary Movement&#8221; throughout the centuries in an effort to usher in the antichrist with the Jews and godless illuminati at its head.</p>
<p>James Russell Says: </p>
<blockquote><p>If this letter did name Nazism in 1871 that would be quite impressive, but to have identified Communism at that date doesnâ€™t actually mean much. The Communist Manifesto had already been published in 1848 so the word was in use by then.</p></blockquote>
<p>Communism as an ideology, and as a coined phrase, originates in France during the Revolution. First through Restif and then the Babeuvist conspirators. Actually, in 1785, Restif coined the phrase four years before revolution broke out. Restif and Babeuf, in turn, were influenced by Rousseau - as was the most famous conspirator of them all, <a href="http://www.conspiracyarchive.com/NWO/Illuminati.htm" rel="nofollow">Adam Weishaupt</a>.</p>
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		<title>By: James Russell</title>
		<link>http://www.timboucher.com/journal/2005/09/03/myths-of-masonry-part-4/comment-page-1/#comment-5462</link>
		<dc:creator>James Russell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 04 Sep 2005 11:09:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.timboucher.com/journal/2005/09/03/myths-of-masonry-part-4/#comment-5462</guid>
		<description>Something else I've just thought of:

&lt;blockquote&gt;This letter purports to identify Communism and Nazism by name as early as 1871&lt;/blockquote&gt;

If this letter did name Nazism in 1871 that would be quite impressive, but to have identified Communism at that date doesn't actually mean much. The Communist Manifesto had already been published in 1848 so the word was in use by then. If it had said Russia would be the first country where Communism took over, now, THAT would've been good.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Something else I&#8217;ve just thought of:</p>
<blockquote><p>This letter purports to identify Communism and Nazism by name as early as 1871</p></blockquote>
<p>If this letter did name Nazism in 1871 that would be quite impressive, but to have identified Communism at that date doesn&#8217;t actually mean much. The Communist Manifesto had already been published in 1848 so the word was in use by then. If it had said Russia would be the first country where Communism took over, now, THAT would&#8217;ve been good.</p>
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		<title>By: Kabir</title>
		<link>http://www.timboucher.com/journal/2005/09/03/myths-of-masonry-part-4/comment-page-1/#comment-5461</link>
		<dc:creator>Kabir</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 04 Sep 2005 10:41:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.timboucher.com/journal/2005/09/03/myths-of-masonry-part-4/#comment-5461</guid>
		<description>Yes, the word Muslim is in the Qur'an.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes, the word Muslim is in the Qur&#8217;an.</p>
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		<title>By: James Russell</title>
		<link>http://www.timboucher.com/journal/2005/09/03/myths-of-masonry-part-4/comment-page-1/#comment-5460</link>
		<dc:creator>James Russell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 04 Sep 2005 05:55:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.timboucher.com/journal/2005/09/03/myths-of-masonry-part-4/#comment-5460</guid>
		<description>I'm no linguist either, but I suspect the word Muslim has always been used by Muslims themselves. I presume that your dictionary which says it was first used as a noun in 1615 really refers to its first use in English.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m no linguist either, but I suspect the word Muslim has always been used by Muslims themselves. I presume that your dictionary which says it was first used as a noun in 1615 really refers to its first use in English.</p>
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		<title>By: albion</title>
		<link>http://www.timboucher.com/journal/2005/09/03/myths-of-masonry-part-4/comment-page-1/#comment-5458</link>
		<dc:creator>albion</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 04 Sep 2005 00:48:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.timboucher.com/journal/2005/09/03/myths-of-masonry-part-4/#comment-5458</guid>
		<description>i dont know much about masonry, but i suspect that a fair bit of anti-masonic stuff is pretty broad-brush and indiscriminate. imho a good place to start for real nefarious masonic conspiracies would be corrupt lodges like the italian P2 or, going back a ways, maybe albert pike's reputed involvement with the KKK.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>i dont know much about masonry, but i suspect that a fair bit of anti-masonic stuff is pretty broad-brush and indiscriminate. imho a good place to start for real nefarious masonic conspiracies would be corrupt lodges like the italian P2 or, going back a ways, maybe albert pike&#8217;s reputed involvement with the KKK.</p>
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		<title>By: Tim Boucher</title>
		<link>http://www.timboucher.com/journal/2005/09/03/myths-of-masonry-part-4/comment-page-1/#comment-5456</link>
		<dc:creator>Tim Boucher</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 03 Sep 2005 22:32:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.timboucher.com/journal/2005/09/03/myths-of-masonry-part-4/#comment-5456</guid>
		<description>Goddammit, you're right! Even if you just look at that bit I quoted from him in &lt;a href="http://www.timboucher.com/journal/2005/09/03/myths-of-masonry-part-3/" rel="nofollow"&gt;part 3&lt;/a&gt;, it's a short passage, but I had to read it like 3 times before I was sure what he meant:

&lt;blockquote&gt;If the buckler of Satan did not stay the flight of Michaelâ€™s lance, the power of the Archangel would be lost in the void, or would necessarily display and manifest itself by an infinite destruction, directed from above to below.&lt;/blockquote&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Goddammit, you&#8217;re right! Even if you just look at that bit I quoted from him in <a href="http://www.timboucher.com/journal/2005/09/03/myths-of-masonry-part-3/" rel="nofollow">part 3</a>, it&#8217;s a short passage, but I had to read it like 3 times before I was sure what he meant:</p>
<blockquote><p>If the buckler of Satan did not stay the flight of Michaelâ€™s lance, the power of the Archangel would be lost in the void, or would necessarily display and manifest itself by an infinite destruction, directed from above to below.</p></blockquote>
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		<title>By: Nicq MacDonald</title>
		<link>http://www.timboucher.com/journal/2005/09/03/myths-of-masonry-part-4/comment-page-1/#comment-5454</link>
		<dc:creator>Nicq MacDonald</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 03 Sep 2005 22:16:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.timboucher.com/journal/2005/09/03/myths-of-masonry-part-4/#comment-5454</guid>
		<description>Heh, this forger couldn't even get Pike's style right.  Have you ever tried reading Morals and Dogma?  The style is positively archaic, and the writing is so abhorrent it makes Kant look simple by comparison.  Orgy of evidence, indeed... though certainly a tantalizing myth.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Heh, this forger couldn&#8217;t even get Pike&#8217;s style right.  Have you ever tried reading Morals and Dogma?  The style is positively archaic, and the writing is so abhorrent it makes Kant look simple by comparison.  Orgy of evidence, indeed&#8230; though certainly a tantalizing myth.</p>
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		<title>By: Tim Boucher</title>
		<link>http://www.timboucher.com/journal/2005/09/03/myths-of-masonry-part-4/comment-page-1/#comment-5452</link>
		<dc:creator>Tim Boucher</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 03 Sep 2005 20:48:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.timboucher.com/journal/2005/09/03/myths-of-masonry-part-4/#comment-5452</guid>
		<description>I pasted that in from another website verbatim</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I pasted that in from another website verbatim</p>
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		<title>By: Atom</title>
		<link>http://www.timboucher.com/journal/2005/09/03/myths-of-masonry-part-4/comment-page-1/#comment-5451</link>
		<dc:creator>Atom</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 03 Sep 2005 20:46:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.timboucher.com/journal/2005/09/03/myths-of-masonry-part-4/#comment-5451</guid>
		<description>Hi Tim..

Guiseppie = Giuseppe

;-p

yes, I'm Italian</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Tim..</p>
<p>Guiseppie = Giuseppe</p>
<p>;-p</p>
<p>yes, I&#8217;m Italian</p>
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