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	<title>Comments on: Are the Illuminati Gnostics?</title>
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	<pubDate>Sun, 22 Nov 2009 15:14:31 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: channel null</title>
		<link>http://www.timboucher.com/journal/2005/10/07/are-the-illuminati-gnostics/comment-page-1/#comment-6928</link>
		<dc:creator>channel null</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Oct 2005 22:03:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.timboucher.com/journal/2005/10/07/are-the-illuminati-gnostics/#comment-6928</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;Depends- are we talking actual illuminati, or modern conspiracy illuminati?&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;blockquote&gt;I donâ€™t know that Iâ€™ve ever heard anybody give any information to make that distinction. But Iâ€™d certainly like to hear it.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

There's the rub, now, isn't it? I think Bob Wilson's claim goes "everyone is their own free mason," i.e., own Grand Architect, makes a lot of sense...
But then you run into the fact that the Freemasons was a quasi-political-spiritual organization; for my purposes here, by "Freemason" I mean both the masons specifically and all that Theosophic nonsense. If we confined the "illuminati" to the benign Sufis and Zen masters, we'd be alright--I &lt;i&gt;think&lt;/i&gt; this is what Wilson meant in Prometheus Rising.

But then you read Cosmic Trigger--which I think is more important to understanding Wilson than Prometheus Rising--and suddenly, you see that he suspects the Sufi-style illumination is tied to the Sirius current, which is a keystone to the Freemasons and all those politically-oriented Theosophists. It's a morass.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Depends- are we talking actual illuminati, or modern conspiracy illuminati?</p></blockquote>
<blockquote><p>I donâ€™t know that Iâ€™ve ever heard anybody give any information to make that distinction. But Iâ€™d certainly like to hear it.</p></blockquote>
<p>There&#8217;s the rub, now, isn&#8217;t it? I think Bob Wilson&#8217;s claim goes &#8220;everyone is their own free mason,&#8221; i.e., own Grand Architect, makes a lot of sense&#8230;<br />
But then you run into the fact that the Freemasons was a quasi-political-spiritual organization; for my purposes here, by &#8220;Freemason&#8221; I mean both the masons specifically and all that Theosophic nonsense. If we confined the &#8220;illuminati&#8221; to the benign Sufis and Zen masters, we&#8217;d be alright&#8211;I <i>think</i> this is what Wilson meant in Prometheus Rising.</p>
<p>But then you read Cosmic Trigger&#8211;which I think is more important to understanding Wilson than Prometheus Rising&#8211;and suddenly, you see that he suspects the Sufi-style illumination is tied to the Sirius current, which is a keystone to the Freemasons and all those politically-oriented Theosophists. It&#8217;s a morass.</p>
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		<title>By: Tim Boucher</title>
		<link>http://www.timboucher.com/journal/2005/10/07/are-the-illuminati-gnostics/comment-page-1/#comment-6926</link>
		<dc:creator>Tim Boucher</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Oct 2005 20:58:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.timboucher.com/journal/2005/10/07/are-the-illuminati-gnostics/#comment-6926</guid>
		<description>I don't know that I've ever heard anybody give any information to make that distinction. But I'd certainly like to hear it. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t know that I&#8217;ve ever heard anybody give any information to make that distinction. But I&#8217;d certainly like to hear it.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Haeresis</title>
		<link>http://www.timboucher.com/journal/2005/10/07/are-the-illuminati-gnostics/comment-page-1/#comment-6925</link>
		<dc:creator>Haeresis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Oct 2005 20:53:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.timboucher.com/journal/2005/10/07/are-the-illuminati-gnostics/#comment-6925</guid>
		<description>Depends- are we talking actual illuminati, or modern conspiracy illuminati?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Depends- are we talking actual illuminati, or modern conspiracy illuminati?</p>
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		<title>By: Tim Boucher</title>
		<link>http://www.timboucher.com/journal/2005/10/07/are-the-illuminati-gnostics/comment-page-1/#comment-6869</link>
		<dc:creator>Tim Boucher</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Oct 2005 17:26:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.timboucher.com/journal/2005/10/07/are-the-illuminati-gnostics/#comment-6869</guid>
		<description>I get what you're saying, although I don't know that black/earth magick is necessarily bad or inferior or if it just has that stigma attached to it...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I get what you&#8217;re saying, although I don&#8217;t know that black/earth magick is necessarily bad or inferior or if it just has that stigma attached to it&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: goldengreek</title>
		<link>http://www.timboucher.com/journal/2005/10/07/are-the-illuminati-gnostics/comment-page-1/#comment-6867</link>
		<dc:creator>goldengreek</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Oct 2005 17:07:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.timboucher.com/journal/2005/10/07/are-the-illuminati-gnostics/#comment-6867</guid>
		<description>It seems to me the Illuminati, as I've seen them described, would be "black gnostics." Like a black magician (such as Joseph Smith), they have not laid down their egos to be picked again at higher qualitative levels. Witness, for example, Smith's convenient theology that tells us only white, heterosexual males are meant for divinity. They also compound their error by "keeping it in the family," if you will. Everyone's divine; everyone's meant for bigger things.

"Black," btw, refers to the color of the earth. This is in contrast to a white magician/gnostic, who HAS risen to a higher qualitative level. Think Gandalf in "Lord of the Rings."</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It seems to me the Illuminati, as I&#8217;ve seen them described, would be &#8220;black gnostics.&#8221; Like a black magician (such as Joseph Smith), they have not laid down their egos to be picked again at higher qualitative levels. Witness, for example, Smith&#8217;s convenient theology that tells us only white, heterosexual males are meant for divinity. They also compound their error by &#8220;keeping it in the family,&#8221; if you will. Everyone&#8217;s divine; everyone&#8217;s meant for bigger things.</p>
<p>&#8220;Black,&#8221; btw, refers to the color of the earth. This is in contrast to a white magician/gnostic, who HAS risen to a higher qualitative level. Think Gandalf in &#8220;Lord of the Rings.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Jeffrey of Troy</title>
		<link>http://www.timboucher.com/journal/2005/10/07/are-the-illuminati-gnostics/comment-page-1/#comment-6833</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeffrey of Troy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 08 Oct 2005 14:30:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.timboucher.com/journal/2005/10/07/are-the-illuminati-gnostics/#comment-6833</guid>
		<description>" What actually is Gnosticism? "

Gnosis is Greek for knowledge. The Jews taught that Works was the way to earn God's grace. The Christians taught that Faith was the key to salvation. The Gnostics were people who said: No, Knowledge is The Way. That's why The Authorities tried to stamp them out.

This is why E. Pagels titled her book on Gnosticism "Beyond Belief". Belief is Evil. The Archons want us all to have belief not knowledge; they even seem to prefer that we have different beliefs, so we'll fight each other, rather than unite to throw off their domination (the domination of The Lie).

Trying to find the right beliefs is a program of the Matrix. Finding out what the truth is no matter what it turns out to actually be is The Way to re-member who you really are ( aka "Gnosticism").</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8221; What actually is Gnosticism? &#8221;</p>
<p>Gnosis is Greek for knowledge. The Jews taught that Works was the way to earn God&#8217;s grace. The Christians taught that Faith was the key to salvation. The Gnostics were people who said: No, Knowledge is The Way. That&#8217;s why The Authorities tried to stamp them out.</p>
<p>This is why E. Pagels titled her book on Gnosticism &#8220;Beyond Belief&#8221;. Belief is Evil. The Archons want us all to have belief not knowledge; they even seem to prefer that we have different beliefs, so we&#8217;ll fight each other, rather than unite to throw off their domination (the domination of The Lie).</p>
<p>Trying to find the right beliefs is a program of the Matrix. Finding out what the truth is no matter what it turns out to actually be is The Way to re-member who you really are ( aka &#8220;Gnosticism&#8221;).</p>
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		<title>By: prunesquallori</title>
		<link>http://www.timboucher.com/journal/2005/10/07/are-the-illuminati-gnostics/comment-page-1/#comment-6826</link>
		<dc:creator>prunesquallori</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 08 Oct 2005 05:51:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.timboucher.com/journal/2005/10/07/are-the-illuminati-gnostics/#comment-6826</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;They would pound it in a mortar, mix it with honey and [pepper], and eat it.&lt;/blockquote&gt;


Ha! That's the setup for one of the greatest one-liners of all time, from Foucalt's Pendulum.

"That's absolutely disgusting. Honey and pepper?!"
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>They would pound it in a mortar, mix it with honey and [pepper], and eat it.</p></blockquote>
<p>Ha! That&#8217;s the setup for one of the greatest one-liners of all time, from Foucalt&#8217;s Pendulum.</p>
<p>&#8220;That&#8217;s absolutely disgusting. Honey and pepper?!&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: bill m.</title>
		<link>http://www.timboucher.com/journal/2005/10/07/are-the-illuminati-gnostics/comment-page-1/#comment-6821</link>
		<dc:creator>bill m.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 Oct 2005 22:59:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.timboucher.com/journal/2005/10/07/are-the-illuminati-gnostics/#comment-6821</guid>
		<description>heres and interesting thing on gnostics by an academic philospher with a great web site
http://www.friesian.org/pagels.htm
(by way of a book review).
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>heres and interesting thing on gnostics by an academic philospher with a great web site<br />
<a href="http://www.friesian.org/pagels.htm" rel="nofollow"></a><a href='http://www.friesian.org/pagels.htm'>http://www.friesian.org/pagels.htm</a><br />
(by way of a book review).</p>
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		<title>By: Daniel</title>
		<link>http://www.timboucher.com/journal/2005/10/07/are-the-illuminati-gnostics/comment-page-1/#comment-6809</link>
		<dc:creator>Daniel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 Oct 2005 19:53:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.timboucher.com/journal/2005/10/07/are-the-illuminati-gnostics/#comment-6809</guid>
		<description>I read a book about different Gnostic traditions and some of the rituals used the bodies sacred fluids, semen and menses, and use it for spiritual purposes, sometimes with orgies or sacred sex rituals, they'd eat it. I read this and thought about what I read in one of David Icke's books about what he says the "Satanic rituals of the Illuminati" are, which is basically the same as what I read in the Gnostic book. I don't have the book lying around here so I can't get it and show you passages but I think you could probably google it. Ooh found it.

http://www.halexandria.org/dward269.htm
&lt;blockquote&gt; Coitus interruptus was normal practice.  Semen was collected and offered to the body of Christ before being consumed.  The Gnostics also, apparently consumed womenâ€™s menstrual blood. &lt;/blockquote&gt;

&lt;blockquote&gt;the power of the soul was found in semen and menses.  But allowing semen to beget children in this world would play into the hands of the evil archon.  So if by accident a woman fell pregnant, the sect would abort the fetus.  They would pound it in a mortar, mix it with honey and spices, and eat it.â€  In effect, â€œthe material world was ruled by an evil â€˜archonâ€™ or intermediate deity.  The bodily flesh belonged to this archon, and would not be raised up&lt;/blockquote&gt;

&lt;blockquote&gt;Allegedly, Jesus â€œwas the first teacher of these practices. He took Mary (probably Mary Magdalene) to a mountain, took a woman out of his side and had sex with her, then drank his own sperm saying: â€˜Thus we ought to do, that we may liveâ€™" The sect even claimed that when Jesus at the Last Supper spoke of eating his flesh and drinking his blood, he was referring to this practice.â€
&lt;/blockquote&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I read a book about different Gnostic traditions and some of the rituals used the bodies sacred fluids, semen and menses, and use it for spiritual purposes, sometimes with orgies or sacred sex rituals, they&#8217;d eat it. I read this and thought about what I read in one of David Icke&#8217;s books about what he says the &#8220;Satanic rituals of the Illuminati&#8221; are, which is basically the same as what I read in the Gnostic book. I don&#8217;t have the book lying around here so I can&#8217;t get it and show you passages but I think you could probably google it. Ooh found it.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.halexandria.org/dward269.htm" rel="nofollow"></a><a href='http://www.halexandria.org/dward269.htm'>http://www.halexandria.org/dward269.htm</a></p>
<blockquote><p> Coitus interruptus was normal practice.  Semen was collected and offered to the body of Christ before being consumed.  The Gnostics also, apparently consumed womenâ€™s menstrual blood. </p></blockquote>
<blockquote><p>the power of the soul was found in semen and menses.  But allowing semen to beget children in this world would play into the hands of the evil archon.  So if by accident a woman fell pregnant, the sect would abort the fetus.  They would pound it in a mortar, mix it with honey and spices, and eat it.â€  In effect, â€œthe material world was ruled by an evil â€˜archonâ€™ or intermediate deity.  The bodily flesh belonged to this archon, and would not be raised up</p></blockquote>
<blockquote><p>Allegedly, Jesus â€œwas the first teacher of these practices. He took Mary (probably Mary Magdalene) to a mountain, took a woman out of his side and had sex with her, then drank his own sperm saying: â€˜Thus we ought to do, that we may liveâ€™&#8221; The sect even claimed that when Jesus at the Last Supper spoke of eating his flesh and drinking his blood, he was referring to this practice.â€
</p></blockquote>
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		<title>By: Tim Boucher</title>
		<link>http://www.timboucher.com/journal/2005/10/07/are-the-illuminati-gnostics/comment-page-1/#comment-6808</link>
		<dc:creator>Tim Boucher</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 Oct 2005 19:53:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.timboucher.com/journal/2005/10/07/are-the-illuminati-gnostics/#comment-6808</guid>
		<description>Scott, could you post something briefly here about your personal connection with both Freemasonry and Gnosticism? I think it would be useful for people trying to sort this issue out....</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Scott, could you post something briefly here about your personal connection with both Freemasonry and Gnosticism? I think it would be useful for people trying to sort this issue out&#8230;.</p>
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		<title>By: scott rassbach</title>
		<link>http://www.timboucher.com/journal/2005/10/07/are-the-illuminati-gnostics/comment-page-1/#comment-6804</link>
		<dc:creator>scott rassbach</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 Oct 2005 18:49:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.timboucher.com/journal/2005/10/07/are-the-illuminati-gnostics/#comment-6804</guid>
		<description>Man, I hope so.  I've always wanted to be a power elite.  

As a Freemason and Gnostic, the Illuminati can reach me by posting a comment on my blog, with the text "I really like your blog.  Great comment.  Try Viagra." And a web link.  Said weblink should include instructions for getting in contact with them.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Man, I hope so.  I&#8217;ve always wanted to be a power elite.  </p>
<p>As a Freemason and Gnostic, the Illuminati can reach me by posting a comment on my blog, with the text &#8220;I really like your blog.  Great comment.  Try Viagra.&#8221; And a web link.  Said weblink should include instructions for getting in contact with them.</p>
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		<title>By: Tim Boucher</title>
		<link>http://www.timboucher.com/journal/2005/10/07/are-the-illuminati-gnostics/comment-page-1/#comment-6793</link>
		<dc:creator>Tim Boucher</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 Oct 2005 15:31:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.timboucher.com/journal/2005/10/07/are-the-illuminati-gnostics/#comment-6793</guid>
		<description>Well, I think Freemasons in particular have a pretty clear line of gnostic descent through the Sufis, European esotericism (alchemy, etc) and the Knights Templars - but I've not really seen anybody connect it effectively to what I know of gnosticism via Nag Hammadi. I guess more in particular what I meant had to do with "ruling elites" rather than strictly Masons</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, I think Freemasons in particular have a pretty clear line of gnostic descent through the Sufis, European esotericism (alchemy, etc) and the Knights Templars - but I&#8217;ve not really seen anybody connect it effectively to what I know of gnosticism via Nag Hammadi. I guess more in particular what I meant had to do with &#8220;ruling elites&#8221; rather than strictly Masons</p>
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		<title>By: Kylark</title>
		<link>http://www.timboucher.com/journal/2005/10/07/are-the-illuminati-gnostics/comment-page-1/#comment-6788</link>
		<dc:creator>Kylark</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 Oct 2005 06:46:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.timboucher.com/journal/2005/10/07/are-the-illuminati-gnostics/#comment-6788</guid>
		<description>Boy, I wish I had an answer to this one.  I have a book on &lt;a href="http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/1594770352/qid=1128667015/sr=8-1/ref=sr_8_xs_ap_i1_xgl14/102-2040038-4436128?v=glance&#38;s=books&#38;n=507846" rel="nofollow"&gt;"Gnostic Philosophy"&lt;/a&gt; I bought  at a cheap remainder bookstore.  The author is a Freemason, which has made me disinclined to even read it.  I have a deep suspicion of Masonry, due to their secretiveness, and also due to their involvement in law enforcement and the highest levels of government.

I have *never* felt like I've been able to get a straight answer on what Freemasonry is all about.  If it's benign, why is it secretive?  If it's totally ineffectual, then why does it persist over time?  There must be some benefit to being a Mason, otherwise people wouldn't continue to do it.

I can think of two possible reasons for the connection:

The Freemasons being associated with "gnosis" in a general sense, i.e., their claim to "secret" knowledge.

Their association with certain "gnostic" historical artifacts.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Boy, I wish I had an answer to this one.  I have a book on <a href="http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/1594770352/qid=1128667015/sr=8-1/ref=sr_8_xs_ap_i1_xgl14/102-2040038-4436128?v=glance&amp;s=books&amp;n=507846" rel="nofollow">&#8220;Gnostic Philosophy&#8221;</a> I bought  at a cheap remainder bookstore.  The author is a Freemason, which has made me disinclined to even read it.  I have a deep suspicion of Masonry, due to their secretiveness, and also due to their involvement in law enforcement and the highest levels of government.</p>
<p>I have *never* felt like I&#8217;ve been able to get a straight answer on what Freemasonry is all about.  If it&#8217;s benign, why is it secretive?  If it&#8217;s totally ineffectual, then why does it persist over time?  There must be some benefit to being a Mason, otherwise people wouldn&#8217;t continue to do it.</p>
<p>I can think of two possible reasons for the connection:</p>
<p>The Freemasons being associated with &#8220;gnosis&#8221; in a general sense, i.e., their claim to &#8220;secret&#8221; knowledge.</p>
<p>Their association with certain &#8220;gnostic&#8221; historical artifacts.</p>
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