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Why r u all so anti-Catholic?
Maybe this is just going to be shooting fish in a barrel, but I thought I’d open up this comment I received last night to a general audience for discussion:
I’ve just read 10 comments by people about the pope, the catholic church and the prophecies. why r u all so anti catholic??? Anti Jesus??? no-one forces u 2 believe nor be part of our church, I find it even more sad when it is christians that act so un-christian, especially the 7th day adventist, Jehovah witnesses!!! u sound such sour grapes, leave it 2 the Lord 2 judge. Just more fuel 4 the atheist, just pityful, pityful
On one hand, I’m completely unphased by people worrying about the character of the content here. I’m happy to entertain viewpoints like this one, as well as viewpoints opposed to these things. But at the same time, there is a measure of truth to what this person’s saying: there are lots of people who are anti-Catholic and anti-Christian. So much so that I sometimes even get tired of it.
I mean, I’ve been the first to lead the charge against Christian hypocrisy many many times. But more and more, I find myself relaxing over the whole thing. Bad things that happen aren’t the fault of the Catholic Church or Christians - they are the fault of people with stupid ideas and poor execution. So I for one have been actively trying to be less negative in general over the whole thing, and have been trying to minimize my use of Fundamentalist Christians as a rhetorical punching bag. It’s hard though, since they set up so many easy targets.
Anyway, maybe this is a good time for people who do have anti-Catholic and anti-Christian sentiments to air their dirty laundry, and get this stuff off your chest. I’m not saying you’re not allowed to bring this stuff up anymore - because you are - but certainly I’d like to give people a chance for a cathartic release and then move on…
October 11th, 2005 at 1:12 pm
I think it’s just when people throw one religion or another in your face and try to smear you with it, that’s when it becomes really hard to not want to bash the belief system that “created” such a moron. It’s equally frustrating when people who seem like complete psychoes believe in something you do. Major cognitive dissonance there…
Back to the original thought about negative representation– for instance, it’s really easy to bash Scientology if you talk solely about how nutty Tom Cruise has been acting lately. But then if you look at some other Scientologists, (perhaps you’re fond of Pulp Fiction?), it’s a little bit harder to say “they must be crazy too.” I wish it was easier to separate individuals from the scheme of “what different religions mean to me.”
As for Catholicism, I know plenty of former Catholics who feel “damaged” because their upbringing denied them of certain things or created rather permanent guilt-feelings about others. There’s something to be said about how experience can really change a person, regardless of how rational they are about what Catholicism/religion/whatever should mean.
October 11th, 2005 at 2:12 pm
One reason people bash other belief systems is that their development level (James Fowler’s Faith Stages) only allows for one. From this perspective, all others must be wrong if I’m right.
On the other side, people begin to bash their own belief system when they develop to the point of being able to step out of the water and look at the fishbowl as an amphibian or a mammal. They may become overly critical of their own heritage at this stage.
The next level of development according to Fowler and the people he borrowed from (Piaget, Erikson, Freud indirectly), is able to see most perspectives as they are and even mix. He calls this “Conjunctive.”
But I agree with Ant. Sometimes you just gotta call stupid when you see it.
October 11th, 2005 at 2:29 pm
Christianity postulates that people are born evil into an evil world. (Don’t take my word for it. Read the Confessions of St. Augustine and the philosophy of Thomas Acquinas.) The Christian theory continues that because people are evil living in an evil place they need God to forgive them and take them to heaven.
Unfortunately this idealogy leads to behavior that turns a blind eye to habitat destruction, or that actively engages in habitat destruction, because when you destroy the earth you destroy evil, or you don’t care about polluting the earth because your goal is eternal bliss in heaven after you die. Ronald Reagan’s Secretary of the Interior fundamentalist Christian James Watt said as much in virtually those exact words.
Obviously Christianity as described herein is an enemy to anyone and anything that does not share the belief that the earth is expendable because it is evil by some religion’s standards. Certainly anyone who desires a healthy environment must by definition be anti-Christian.
October 11th, 2005 at 3:23 pm
tim, there isn`t enough room for a full cathartic orgasm here, but lets visit a few high points;
-creepy types in dresses.
-celebates giving advise on heterosexual pair-bonding mechanisms.
-guilt.
-swearing loyalty to a foriegn king and country.
-infalability of the pope.
-paedophilia.
-the handling of blatant paedophilia by the vatican.
-mind control.
it`s a scary list for an organisation that has so much sway over public thought.
October 11th, 2005 at 7:51 pm
perhaps it’s a matter of courtesy that we shouldn’t bash people’s beliefs. seems a little rude.
but belief systems are totally fair game. if catholicism wasn’t a system i’d let it be. of course, if it wasn’t a system it wouldn’t exist.
fuck belief systems. fuck all systems. then we can believe whatever the hell we want (except that we should have a system, that would be shit
).
love the soldiers, hate the war
October 11th, 2005 at 9:35 pm
the paedophilia and protecting nazis really piss me off. it would be one thing if they were very sorry and never did it again, but i don’t think that’s the case, so fuck ‘em.
October 11th, 2005 at 9:35 pm
that was me, above.
October 11th, 2005 at 10:02 pm
it has long been my belief that mechanisms such as catholicism promote chaos in culture and that the freaks and abominations that are drawn to such organisations find a sanctuary for thier particular tastes and predelictions.
moralists are the highest form of coward, in my estimate.
i don`t know if it`s true in america but in canada we have two sets of school boards. one secular and one catholic. the catholics get privelige regarding location and facilities. we have a catholic high school and elementary school that sits on land joined to soccer fields, baseball diamonds and play areas in the center of our subdivision that are owned by the city. it is a wonderful place for our children and ourselves to play and hang out. the catholics put a fence up around thier football field and practice on the city fields, leaving thiers perfect for game day….8 times a season! it`s never used otherwise.
our school taxes are paying for this kind of behaviour. fuckwits.
October 11th, 2005 at 11:47 pm
anymore.
October 12th, 2005 at 2:47 am
I believe this point was made previously, you can believe whatever you’d like . . .but regardless of your faith, there is absolutely no excuse for ignorance. . .and whenever it strikes it’s ugly head, I think we’re obligated to mock it relentlessly, despite the religion or philosophy it stems from. Being anti-any idea or religion is a form of ignorance, because it keeps you from every really knowing or experiencing what said idea or religion is all about, what it has to offer, and how it can serve you. I always found skeptics and hardcore atheists to be equally as annoying as fundamentalists, only because both are adamant in their beliefs and unwavering in their conviction of “being right”. Let’s just all admit that we don’t know shit, that we entertain beliefs for given periods of time because they’re either comforting or necessary to our spiritual growth at that moment in our lives, and call it a day. whattya say?
October 12th, 2005 at 9:34 am
There is always room for tolerance, but the poster hasn’t written one paragraphs before he/she starts slamming other “christian” groups and by the second paragraph she is already invoking her God to judgement of others.
Yes, I could be more tolerant but how totally predictable and hypocritical.
to quote the poster: “just pityful, pityful” (sic)
October 12th, 2005 at 12:14 pm
Can’t speak for anyone else, but I got nothing but respect for many Catholics, particularly if you count dead historical figures. And nothing but disrespect for many other Catholics, like the new pedophile-protecting pope.
Catholicism has brought many good things into the world and many evil things. It’s completely disengenuous to lump such everyone in such a large and rich tradition together, either on the good and bad side. Despite the archonic tendencies of hierarchy, it is still composed of humans, and thus cannot help but to be both a conduit for the divine and means for evil.
October 12th, 2005 at 1:03 pm
Well said, Prunesquallori.
October 12th, 2005 at 3:07 pm
i do applaude the reasonable middle view. it waves a flag in the face of hostility, buuuuuut……………………….in this post we are airing our discontent with the cathoholic cult, so the fact remains, it`s an archonic organisation that breeds and protects some of the most obscene behaviour known to man. in britain they banned fox hunting but……………..hunting children is o.k. k-rist.
October 12th, 2005 at 6:00 pm
“but regardless of your faith, there is absolutely no excuse for ignorance.”
…It really sucks to be stupid. I can’t remember where I heard this, but someone once made the point that if you’re crazy you’ll get all the help and sympathy you need, and if you’re retarded you’ll get your very own olympics… but if you’re just stupid… no mercy. There is absolutely no excuse for you.
Catholicism has a lot of really good points. It also has a lot of really not-so-good points. I guess the problem is that in order to be really “Catholic” you have to accept the bad along with the good. It almost seems unreasonable to expect a global organization with such a strong connection to its history to ever weed out all the stupid stuff… but Catholicism is a “religion”, not an “organization”… so by definition the Catholic belief system should be synonymous with truth to its followers. I guess that’s the part that makes it seem kind of stupid to those of us without any kind of privileged access to divine wisdom. Not to mention certain seemingly obvious misalignments of Catholicism with our intuitive judgments of right and wrong (the Nazi thing and the child molestation stuff, yadda yadda yadda).
I’m really not very anti-Catholic at all. I was raised in the church, and I relate to it a lot… I find that it kind of annoys real Catholics when I say that though. I once told a Catholic friend that I still enjoy going to mass, even though I don’t believe everything they say… that I find the sense of community comforting and that it still feels a little like “home”. Her response: “No offense, but if that’s the only reason you go to mass, get a video tape.”
I get it. That makes sense. It’s an extension of the original poster’s comment (”no-one forces u 2 believe nor be part of our church”): if you don’t believe, get the hell out of our church. But still, being a card-carrying member of a religion that spouts sometimes-inconsistent beliefs yet claims to have access to the truth of the universe (and closes its doors to nostalgic skeptics) seems a little pretentious. Particularly to those of us left peering through the stained-glass windows from outside. But it’s not just Catholicism. Anyone claiming to actually “get it right” with respect supernatural claims seems a little bit pretensious. I sometimes even think it verges on ignorance. …And there is absolutely no excuse for ignorance.
October 12th, 2005 at 11:36 pm
Stee’raaaaaaw man.
I never really got the impression anybody around here was particularly anti-Catholic. This crowd questions everything obsessively, and the Church is included in “everything.” Many of us are practicing, half-practicing, or lapsed Catholics ourselves. We encourage the questioning of everything because we consider it healthy, mind-opening, and informative. There are some folks antagonistic to Christianity floating around here and there, but around here its mostly just a case of rampant (healthy) skepticism. But this isn’t the point.
My question is, why you gonna devote a whole post to someone who is obviously either 12, or a Japanese man who’s had a year of english:
“You sound such sour grapes! Challenge you I must!”
If you ask me, this guy isn’t Catholic to begin with. That spelling has “fundie baptist” written all over it. Throw in a couple OMG!’s, LoL’s, and it supports the 12 year-old hypothesis. 12 year old fundie maybe?
October 13th, 2005 at 2:02 am
The church makes it so easy for people to be against it.
Personally, however, I’m much more anti-morons who either never learned or can’t be bothered to spell properly.