Faith is one of those things I’ve always struggled to understand in religion. The idea, the actual practice of it, both sometimes seem like insurmountable goals.
I had a moment of crystallization today while watching Twin Peaks. There was a line in an episode in the second season (episode nine or ten I think), in which Hawk says to Cooper: “You’re on a path. You don’t need to know where it leads. Just follow.”
This to me seems like the best explanation of what faith is, and what it’s for that I’ve ever heard. Maybe faith is simply going forward even though you don’t know what’s ahead. And it’s trusting or knowing somewhere inside that you’re on the right track, even when people or events try to get you to turn from it.
I often hear people criticize others for having faith, as though it blinds you or clouds your judgement. But maybe that’s just what it is - something only you can know, which nobody else can have a window into. Maybe some people call that intuition, but this to me seems a lot stronger, and a lot more of a struggle to follow.
I’m curious to hear what other people’s experiences have been with the subject, as well as attitudes in general. What does faith mean to you? Do you have faith? Does faith play any role in people’s lives who are not necessarily of a Judeo-Christian background? Do you think faith is stupid? Whatever your definition of faith is - is it easy or a challenge? Do you have faith? Do you wish you did?
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32 Comments
I think for me faith is just the feeling like i’m working something out, or something is being worked out through me, and in the meantime i’m going to have to delay gratification, so to speak.
Thats personal faith I reckon. Then theres faith in humanity, or a lack thereof. Then there is faith in god, or the unknown. Hmmm, now Im confused.
Big question, I just have this small contribution.
I guess I think of faith as a recognition that there are aspects to the universe that we are simply incapable of observing and understanding. To crib from E.F. Schumacher, consider a book. A dog sees the book as a colored shape. And he isn’t wrong, but there is more to it. If he were to open the book he would see symbols, but without having any concept of what a symbol is. If I found a book written in hebrew I would recognize it as an expression of meaning, but the meaning would allude me.
We meet the world only through our our senses and our ability to reflect on observations. What can’t we see? What to we see but not understand? There is no way to know - we are not adequate to the inquiry. In this sense, I think that to believe that there are things that we cannot see is an exercise in faith.
er, “elude.”
Re-reading my post I’m not sure if my point came through - do we believe that we see and understand everything and that the dog sees and understands less, or just that we see more than the dog but not everything? If the former faith is a fallacy. I suspect the latter.
Come to think of it, do we think we see and understand everything the dog sees and understands? On what basis?
When faith clouds your judgemnt, that is known as “blind faith”.
I think faith is when you find some sort of reassurance within yourself, based upon something external.
I love the countless gems that the Bible has concerning faith– forget what you’ve heard Christians parrot. Concepts like having the faith of a mustard seed are beautiful and succinct, and shouldn’t be tainted by a dislike for fundamentalist dipshits like James Dobson.
Also: think about what it means to be “faithful”… a faithful spouse is one who hasn’t cheated; a faithful following is a group of people devoted to one cause or belief…
To be full of faith, it seems, is to be committed to something other than oneself.
I highly recommend the book Faith and Belief by Wilfred Cantwell Smith. He provides a great discussion of the historical context and meaning of “faith” and at the same time offers an interesting comparison of religions whose systems of belief and doctrine are very different — Buddhism and Christianity, for example — but whose “faith” (ie. embodying the practice of religion) unites them.
For me, faith is simply the way one lives one’s life. No matter what I believe, or what I profess, if it is not a part of my actions then it is simply intellectual and has very little impact on my spiritual development.
Paul: I recently just remembered I still have that Schumacher book of yours. I will try to get to it soon and get back to you.
James: I don’t really agree that “blind faith” equals having your judgement clouded. I’m personally more inclined to see it as I described above - you’re walking forward into a dark room, but you can’t see where you’re going. It’s not necessarily foolish or bad judgement, but you may trip or knock something over.
CA: I think that’s interesting what you’re saying. It sounds to me like it could be re-phrased as what’s in your mind and heart, versus what you actively bring into the physical world. I see that as a very important point, though I have difficulty connecting it to any classical or personal definition of faith. Could you elaborate perhaps?
Faith can be useful.
Imagination moreso.
Tim,
I actually thought I still had that book. If you have it take your time, if you don’t I’ll send it along.
Paul
Paul, I still have it.
Rob, that’s an interesting statement, but doesn’t convey much information. Could you elaborate? Do you have any personal concept of faith?
Man! you’re completely hook on Twin Peaks LOL!
Dang! i think my head is hurting just thinking about the concept of “Faith” LOL!
Anyway, Faith to me is a way of life, a mindset, an attitude, a certain way of looking at things.
I got interested into gnosticism because i didn’t in “Blind Faith” i had to know why my faith is the way it is. The twin peaks quote of “You’re on a path. You don’t need to know where it leads. Just follow.†is somewhat of bullshit because it’s not enough to follow a path and follow it! Heck! we need to know where the hell our life is going. We need to know our desired destination (at least assumption of it), a map or (to make it modern) a GPS to get into our destination or else we end up wandering into nowhere in our lives. Sorry to ruin it for you but at least i love the zen quality to the quote. Probably, i misinterpreted that quote. It could be saying that “Follow the path and trust your instincts”. Hmmm…
Faith, to me, generally seems applied in such a way where the end result is static, or becomes ossified. Faith can be useful, but seems to eventually trap you. Faith is functional in that “faith” gives you the psychological wherewithal to kick yourself in the ass and propel you in a certain direction or to get things done. Both of which are sometimes important, and keep you from navel gazing.
The Twin Peaks quote, to me, doesn’t imply faith so much as a willingness to try. To attempt. To experience.
That doesn’t seem to mean faith to me.
Where you write faith is
Well, that’s not faith. Faith is absolutely knowing what’s ahead, even if you’re not sure where you are now.
And in those instance where faith can be usefu, motivation or getting yourself started at something, imagination can just as powerfully motivate you without trapping you in some preconceived outcome.
“To believe something while knowing it cannot be proved (yet) is the essence of physics.” - Nobel laureate Leon Lederman.
“I’m pretty sure that people gain a selective advantage from believing in things they can’t prove. Those who are occasionally consumed by false beliefs do better in life than those who insist on evidence before they believe and act.” - Randolph Nesse, University of Michigan.
I make a distinction betweeen a ‘living’ faith and a ‘dead’ faith. I think that what most people mean by ‘blind’ faith is what I would equate to a ‘dead’ faith. A living faith is open to being questioned and challenged. In being challenged, it has the opportunity to grow and adapt, and to reach greater depths as our understanding of things deepen. Because of this ability to grow and change, I call it ‘living.’ Blind faith, on the other hand, is one that refuses to be questioned. It is stagnant and dead.
Faith emerges from the pattern of your Life
You have hit the nail on the head. To people of faith reality are those things discovered along the path. Being focused on the path is the only way to overcome the naysayers and those that live purely by objectivity. The path is everything.
Reality exists. Therefore, actions have consequences. Therefore, the truth matters. Therefore, what is Good and what is Evil are both objective.
Having faith is choosing what to believe, which is rejecting reality, and therefore the truth.
The Matrix has abused you your entire life. Hence, you are fractured, and so cannot resist the influence of the Foreign Installation. It makes up some bullshit and then agrees with itself.
Following the clues and connecting the dots can grow your awareness into a shield, and inside that chrysalis you can fuse the fractured self back into 1. But U have to B willing to find out what the truth is no matter what it turns out to be - that’s the “secret ingredient.”
The Truth is Good. The Lie is Evil.
Yesterday I got into a conversation with someone who told me, “We all just have to remember that there is a plan, and that everything is going to work out.” It’s a beautiful sentiment, but I was in an annoying mood, so I said something like, “I’m not really sure that that’s true… I think maybe our lives are really just the product of our choices…” She shot that down immediately, saying that she was certain that she was meant to marry her first husband, have their child, grow with him and apart from him, and meet who she was really “meant” to be with… So I smiled and agreed.
I think that’s the idea that’s generally at the core of all faith… it’s the unshakable belief that one’s life is meaningful. That could be manifested as “God has a plan for me” or as “I’m on the right path.” I suppose that could be dangerous when you are in fact on a bad path, but it’s still probably a lot healthier to have a little faith than to believe that we’re all just accidents of nature or that nothing we do even matters.
It’s weird to me that I ask for people’s opinions with the hope of opening a dialogue on the subject and so many people rather than adding something substantive attempt to just tell me I’m wrong.
What you may not realize is that people telling me I’m wrong or I should do it a different way than I know in my heart is right exactly proves my original point.
Here’s a great but too short interview with author Madeleine L’Engle where she talks briefly about faith:
I think a lot of people overlook this component of what it means to have faith. Faith is not absolute knowledge. It’s not certainty. It’s a challenge and a struggle to act out and maintain against the negative onslaught of the world.
I have a question for anyone who diminishes or dismisses faith. Do you have it? Do you wish you did? This isn’t a challenge - it’s a request for honest non-judgemental communication.
there’s no way that faith is absolute knowledge! absolute knowledge is gnosis, not faith. in gnostic cosmology, faith is an aspect of wisdom– wisdom’s name is sophia, her title is pistis, which translates to ‘faith.’ so one cannot have wisdom without faith. to me, faith is the willing desire of the self to know the other.
of course, what faith means even in the bible is pretty difficult to grasp; the concept barely existed in the old testament, and there are about four different greek words that are used for ‘faith’ in the new testament. personally, i see faith as a necessary step on the road to knowledge. blind faith is an exercise in futility; believing something simply because you’ve been told is ridiculous. but, without faith as an open willingness to know, one cannot know whatsoever.
think of it in terms of ghost hunting! someone who has faith that they’ll see something is far more likely to do so, whereas someone who has no faith hasn’t cultivated an open willingness to have an experience.
another way i think of faith is the idea of a husband who is faithful to his wife. in this case, the husband is faithful due to the loving promise he and his partner have made to one another (and because he’s not an obnoxious jerk). so when we are faithful to an idea or a concept, it means that even if we’re somehow distracted from that idea or concept, we’ll nonetheless return to it.
I think the word “trust” ought to be applied here as well.
heck yeah! trust is definitely what it’s all about– in a way, i guess it’s sort of like the concept of cultivating the tao & entering the river instead of fighting it. i’d be interested to hear what dan has to say about this.
here’s my favorite passage about faith from the gospel of philip:
My exact quote was “Whe faith clouds your judgement, that is known as ‘blind faith’”. It is not just the mere state of having clouded judgement, but judgment clouded by faith itself.
I agree with many of the other posters here on the definiton. But I don’t think people are saying you are wrong, Tim. They’re just giving you their answers. Faith is highly subjective.
Another thing: faith is one of those things whose very nature, it seems, is to be constantly tested. How do you know if you have faith unless you’ve had it tested? It’s almost as if to have untested faith is the same as having none at all.
And, is it even possible to have untested faith? Is it a contradiction in terms?
I’m reminded of the Johnny Depp movie the 9th gate
He had faith - none of the other people he ran into along the way really understood what it was all about tho
“Do you have it? Do you wish you did?” No and no.
Trust is earned; faith is evil.
The 9th Gate is a perfect example ( and a great movie ): he achieved it because he did not have faith. He had a curiosity. All the other people in the movie did not achieve it because they had faith. Rather than trying to find out what the truth is, they tried to find that the truth was what they already thought it was. ( In fact, they all died - aka “had no life in them.” )
“Pistis” is not only correctly translated as faith; it can also mean “confidence.” ( Then Y is it always translated as faith? ) That would cast Jesus’ teachings in a whole different light, wouldn’t it? “When you have the confidence I have, you will speak the truth, and the truth will set you free.”
So The Matrix sent in Paul, The Liar, to infect the Jesus Movement with The Gospel of Faith - just believe that Jesus was the 1 true son of God, that he was born of a virgin, that he died on the cross, and that he rose from the dead, and you will be “saved.” You don’t have to be a good person, don’t have to tell the truth; can lie, cheat, steal, rape, torture and murder ( aka “the war on terrorism” ). After the people who had actually known Jesus died, the true stories of Jesus life and teachings were “cleaned up” to conform with Christianity. Compare w/ Gosp.Thom.
The Gospel of Jesus/truth vs. the Gospel of Paul/faith. Who will win?
Its interesting to me that Newton, one of the great rational thinkers of all time, wrote like 5 or 10 times more material on religion than he did on science. He concluded that the holy trinity must be false, because it wasn’t possible for all three to be equally holy. This was all on a PBS show recently– did anyone see it? I like examples like this, people like Einstein and Newton who were radical realists of sorts, but how personally were equally interested in faith-based thinking as well as falsifiable, scientific thinking. For me personally, it illustrates the symbiosis of ‘faith’ and ‘knowledge’ as we sort of commonly use those words. Einsteins motivation, his FAITH, was religious in nature– ‘God doesn’t play dice with the universe’, but his result, his contribution, was finite and ‘real’, so to speak. I guess what I’m trying to get at is how faith in general can play a crucial part in how our reality eventually turns out. What it means to me is that I can use faith to try to exist on a deeper level, to actually change the level that I’m living on, to go deeper. I like coupling faith to a sort of accountability– not just wandering off into the desert to make a sort of ’show’ of faith, but to place faith with the aim of results, ie the science side, the rational everyday side. Its like we can throw our minds out to the heavens somehow, and try to drag down something wonderful to our reality. But faith without accountability is I think the essence of a dictatorship.
James, maybe you’re right about me jumping the gun. Sorry if that’s the case. In any event, it wasn’t directed at your comments.
As for Jeffrey of Troy, I think for how much you talk about people being caught in the matrix, you seem to rather enjoy playing word games with people. I’m not really sure where you’re going with it all.
Having faith is like being pronoid. It’s a personal communication with the universe. It’s how you can be sure of yourself in a chaotic universe.
well in the 9th gate he did have a peculair kind of faith didn’t he, you are right though he didn’t have any preconceived notions - it was faith in the journey not in second-hand info
Tarkovsky’s ‘Nostalghia’ is an illustration of what faith can be
faith is whistling in the dark and knowing to keep on whistling. we cannot know anything else caught up here in three dimensions of space and one of time. occasionally we can escape into a fifth dimension, but we come back delirious. so we must keep on whistling.
i hear the laughter of terence mckenna whenever i think in these terms.
and people really are disarmed by the confident. that`s why christ got into trouble. people will let you have your faith all day, they won`t rest until they`ve shattered your confidence.
so christ said, “go ahead, tack me up, you fuckwits, it`s really you that you`re crucifying.”
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[...] inuation of some thoughts I posted over on Tim’s site concerning the idea of faith. Tim writes: I often hear people criticize others for having faith, as though it blin [...]
[...] t of faith to all this. The best definition of faith I’ve seen so far is the one on Tim’s blog (quoted from Twin Peaks): “You’re on a path. You don’t ne [...]