While browsing around for something or other, I came across a really whiny editorial from a Yale University newspaper, circa 2001, about the “social validity of secret societies.” I’ll tell you, the whole thing only makes me want to be a part of a secret society. Author Sarah Nichols writes:
Senior societies have many things to offer. They provide the opportunity to meet and become close with a group of diverse strangers in your senior year. They supply an interesting forum for discussion and debate, a natural window outside of your iron-clad clique. Not to mention the lavish facilities, alumni connections, and bragging rights.
These temptations are real. Yet, so is our legacy at Yale of exclusion, elitism and power consolidation. These societies were formed as elaborate popularity and social class contests. There is a reason these beautiful buildings were made without windows and the doors are always locked.
In a campus that is fairly intolerant of fraternities and sororities, we have developed a far more exclusionary senior alternative. Everyone knows that getting into a society has everything to do with who you know, not who you are. But that doesn’t change the fact that there are genuinely hurt feelings and emotions running behind this little game.
In life, there are times when we will all be excluded from certain places and things. Likewise, we will all probably have the chance to exclude others. We will all, regardless of race, religion, gender, class, or creed be excluded from something, sometime.
But there is enough petty exclusion in this world without institutionalizing it at our own college.
I know this is just one person’s college newspaper article, but I brought it up here because I think the attitude portrayed here is probably pretty widespread. I know among conspiracy theorists it’s pretty much taken for granted that secret societies are the ultimate evil behind every bad thing that has ever happened to anyone anywhere. But is there any chance this fundamental opinion is perhaps misinformed, or as Nichols writes above the result of “genuinely hurt feelings” by people who feel excluded?
What purpose does a secret society really hold? What’s the point of having a club? Why would you want some people in it and not others? How would you decide? Or think of it this way: would you enter into business with just anybody? Would you let a stranger move in with your family?
Does secrecy or exclusion make you somehow bad or wrong or evil? If your answer is a vehement, “YES!” then please do me the favor of explaining in precise terms why that is the case. And for anyone who wants to argue that all secret societies everywhere are evil in the worst form, go ahead and do so. But also give me some Devil’s Advocate-style reasons why they might be good, positive, or useful. You don’t have to necessarily believe them, but think up reasons. I want to have a nice well-rounded discussion of this issue.
Also, since we’re on the subject, don’t forget to check out my Secret Society card in the Pop Culture Tarot deck created collaboratively earlier this year.
- END -
ASSOCIATED CONTENT @TMBCHR (Auto-Generated)
- Secret Societies Are Not Evil
- Secret Societies & Shared Value Communities
- Joseph Campbell on Secret Societies
- Is Jesus Really the Son of God?
- Lending, Secret Societies, Canon Law
25 Comments
Secret societies infiltrating governments and judicial systems to pervert democracy into the furthering of their own, nonpublic and selfish goals ?
Secrecy is a problem for people who are supposed to be accountable to the public. If they have unpublished allegiances which can conflict with their public responsibilities, I can’t see any good coming from this.
true, but…….where in human endevours are there not secrets? sometimes the truth will cause the most damage. sounds like a weapon actually.
Hah! You opened a can o’ worms with this one Tim! I have known many members of secret society’s and like society there are different people in them for all kinds of different reasons. On the whole, my impressions about the agendas and individuals therein are positive. It’s easy to find community, learn uncommon knowledge, and make friends to boot. I think the secret society scare has absolved of late in the last few years with interest in open communication protocols, the dwindling memberships in such organizations, and a lack of interest from every generation since the 1960s.
Secret societys infiltrating the guberment– thats a funny one. The United States was _organized_ and _created_ by the most well known one in history.
The article you quote is a familiar one that “hurt feelings” or the idea of being excluded from something is usually more an expression of feelings of an inferiority complex than any slight of the organizations in and of themselves, “WHAT? someone out there knowns something “I” do not!” And besides: they’re just people. Secret societies are as old as people and will continue to have more relevence and appeal in a consumer society that BUY any one of the ideas in the spiritual market place but must ATTAIN in the before said, secret society. And besides, real secrets are not something you can read about or be told, but Experienced.
Noticed you were looking into VALIS recently don’t know if you stumbled in to the Ibogaine-Bwitti Connection
Here are chapters from the larger very confusing story.
But have you ever considered that governments and judicial systems already operate according to much the same dynamics?
This goes to an even deeper question though of does a system of voting equal accountability? Some would say yes and some would say no.
Anyway, “did” - you didn’t do my homework assignment. I asked if you were going to say that they were bad if you could also come up with theoretical reasons why they might be good.
Absolutely! Examples of this abound in ordinary life, nevermind government.
And I think a good homework assignment for people who are afraid of high-level secret societies is to form your own with your friends and close confidantes where you pledge to look out for one another. Tell me how evil you think that is.
Oh, and this is a great point:
Ah, great call! Nobody ever mentions this, do they?
Hi,
I’ve been reading some of your interesting blogs, you seem to cover a wide wide range of diverse topics. However starting a daily blog with something like “Are Secret Societies bad,” is kind of a pointless blog, it’s such a deep deep emotional topic that a simple blog is a really tacky way of trying to discuss the issue. That would almost be like creating a blog with the heading, “Is Jesus really the son of God.” I mean yeah, it’s definitely an interesting topic but a blog isn’t really the place for that kind of discussion. Those are the types of things are constantly prevalent on people’s minds, when they wake up, go to work, come home, go to sleep, etc… My advice, since you are such a young guy, try to stick to blogs that are a little more low key and personal and try to avoid those ridiculous heady issues. You’re a really good, intelligent writer, don’t get me wrong, but I think you would earn yourself more stars of credibility if you avoided topics that are kind of out of your league to discuss.
thank you
People only join in secret societies for power, money and lot’s potential for networking, those are the perks. But a secret society with a secret agenda for globalism, who think their own vision of the world would make the world a better place…that’s a big B-U-L-L-S-H-I-T! BULLSHIT! What’s more are the conspiracy theorist (who maybe onto something) but based most their assumption on speculative bullshit, who they treat as facts, which is MORE BULLSHIT! They need to CHILL OUT, RELAX, GET SOME AIR because not everybody is out to get us! Everybody is trying to rule the world while they can’t even rule their own selves(their own soul!) IDIOTS where all IDIOTS!!!
Oh in response to Mark S.
That’s what they want you to think!
I have a friend who is a praticing shaman. I used to share with her all of the conspiracy reading I did about the “repitilians,” the annunaki, etc.
Once I asked her what I thought about this stuff, if those entities exist, if so what their agenda is, where they come from. I watched her rotate her eyes like she was accessing a memory. And she smiled and said “I just checked with my spirits, sorry, I’m not allowed to talk about this with you.”
That was the first of many times she pulled that on me. It used to enrage me, it made me think she was snobby and pretentious, that her “spirits” were all a hoax and a way to feel important.
Now I am in a similar position myself and realize that she was right to treat certain types of conversations that way. Not all secret societies are primarily political - some are largely, or almost completely, spiritual. By this I mean that there do exist secret socities which are based on the individual’s adoption into families of non-human entities - for guidance, protection, healing, growth, etc.
Spirits don’t always want to be bought and sold and popularized and commoidified. They do want to be treated like sacred beings, with respect, which is to say, not profaned for the sake of gossip.
Which means, sometimes, that if you have a relationship with certain spirits you are better off not talking about them with people who do not share that relationship. For the dignity of the spirits, for your own peace of mind and for the safety of the outsider.
yeah, but in reality, none of your idiots have lives other than writing and reading blogs on the internet, so again, what’s the point? If you were real writers your work would be published and out in print in libraries. The internet is like an entropic maze for jackasses who think they are reading great inspired information, when in reality it’s watered down information, passed down through like ten people… Internet knowledge is like a subculture joke, there is no substitute for real experience or from reading a thoroughly written and thought out book from a real actual author. Not some wannabee comic book writer/commentary person. You guys keep fooling yourselves, it’s fun to watch losers argue in a pointless blog forum. And plus I never said I disliked his blogs, I’m just stating the obvious. Ninety percent of the topics he discusses seem to be out of his intellectual realm of expertise. He’s a good writer, but if he thinks he can tackle a subject as heady as “Secret Societies” or God and religion, then by all means, write a book and sell it on amazon. Put your money where your mouth is. Sorry about the bluntless, but I have a personal disdain for pretenders and people who meander around with stupid silliness.
Mark S., you do realize the irony inherent in your message, right? I mean, if you think you can handle a topic as heady as the Internet as an entropic maze, http://www.lulu.com will publish your book for you and you can sell it on Amazon.
I can’t speak for Tim, but I’ve occasionaly used a blog to explore ideas that I don’t know enough to write a book about.
On topic, though:
A secret society is antithical to the traditions of open, transparent republican govornments that we consider good. That does not neccessarily make them bad - the republic is not neccessarily the only good way to run a country, although I am not aware of any other methods that work with groups of more than about 100 people.
But in general, when one is doing good, one is likely to advertize the fact. This makes secret societies suspect. But the tendency is not universal, some people shun the spotlight. So who knows.
And then there are secret societies that are either purely social or service-oriented. If you want to gather for fun or to fix something or fund a hospital and don’t want to share the details, I’ve got no objection as long as those involved are all consenting adults.
However, I like republics. A lot.
Mr. Mark S. May I ask what your credentials are? Have you written a book? If so, why are you wasting time on this blog? If not, how do you know so much about the process of writing a book? Perhaps this blog is simply a way to “test” the ideas Tim wishes to put in print.
I also notice that you’ve nothing constructive to add to the conversation, you simply say the conversation is pointless. You’ve stated that something is “Out of Tim’s League” but haven’t said why. Just out of curiousity, was it out of Knight and Lomas’s league to write about the Freemasons? What about Dan Brown? How does one get “in the league?”
In this matter, your “disdain” and my regard for Tim have exactly the same weight: We’re bystanders, he’s doing the work.
Now that that’s dealt with, onto the homework.
Nothing human is good or bad in and of itself, it’s the use to which it’s put. If the secrets are used to engage and illuminate humanity, it’s good. If not, it’s bad. Secret Societies are slightly more able to maintain their focus than a public institution, for they are generally invite only, and exercise control over their membership so you don’t end up with some one who’s antithetical to the job their trying to do running the show. Like, for instance, FEMA.
Honestly, every time someone brings up a secret society, I’m fascinated by it rather than really worried… I think it’s my internal adventurer/archaeologist wanting to solve puzzles.
I’ve never really understood how to separate “people within secret societies” from “normal human beings with feelings” which so many people seem to do, villianizing them no matter how much they pretend not to believe in some some sort of “evil.” Am I right? I mean, I’m not convinced that they have some sort of ultra-horrific goal in mind like “destroy the world and enslave humanity”, but maybe I’m just naive…
“[A] secret society with a secret agenda for globalism, who think their own vision of the world would make the world a better place…that’s a big B-U-L-L-S-H-I-T! BULLSHIT! What’s more are the conspiracy theorist (who maybe onto something) but based most their assumption on speculative bullshit, who they treat as facts, which is MORE BULLSHIT! They need to CHILL OUT, RELAX, GET SOME AIR because not everybody is out to get us! Everybody is trying to rule the world while they can’t even rule their own selves(their own soul!) IDIOTS where all IDIOTS!!!”
Point taken. But if you ask me, the people who REALLY need to chill out are the ones who create these secret societies and go through all the trouble of mounting their stupid slogans and messages on our currency or in the architecture of buildings in D.C.
From what I know about Freemasonry, its core beliefs are as stupid as Scientology… and I resent Scientologists pushing their Xenu beliefs upon me in insidious ways. Recently, a friend of mine bought a pet-grooming business, and I noticed Dianetics-related literature in the waiting area… but it wasn’t obvious that it was Scientology-related. One had to scan the entire pamphlet in order to find any affiliation with the Church of Scitenology, and even then it was in small print.
My friend thought they were harmless pamphlets emphasizing self-improvement. I told my friend to throw them out, which she did. A week later, someone re-stocked them. I told my friend to confront the re-stockers and demand that they stop advertising their cult in her shop. She agreed, and it worked.
If I had the power to do so, I would have the All-Seeing Eye of Horus, as well as the slogan “E Pluribus Unum” and the phrase “In God We Trust” removed from all American currency. Why? Because it’s bullshit that I don’t subscribe to, and I resent this imposition upon my individual rights.
And what’s more, these secret organizations get all huffy when an Average Joe such as myself demands to know what they are hiding. See the hypocrisy here? They can brand our money, our landmarks, even our private businesses with their bullshit, but the minute we want some answers from them (by “them” I mean any weirdo cult that uses the cloak of secrecy) all of a sudden they want privacy.
Fuck them. I want everyone to know the story of Hiram Abiff. Maybe if more people did, they would realize what a crock Freemasonry is, and they’d quit.
And kudos to “South Park” for their Scientology episode! If they decide to try and sue Trey and Matt, I’ll donate money to their cause, because it’s about time more people started unmasking these secretive fucks. They want to have their cake and eat it too. I’m sure Scientology “recruits” aren’t left alone for one second of their “training”, so why should we allow them the luxury of keeping their wack beliefs private?
In short: if the notion of a secret global conspiracy is bullshit, then why do so many organizations attempt it?
I would like to re-write Hassan-i-Sabbah’s maxim to read as follows: “Nothing is secret; everything is out in the open”
I don’t have a great deal to add to the responses to Mark S, except:
I absolutely agree!
James:
When you say that you resent them imposing their views on you, how is that different from you telling your friend to throw out the pamphlets and confront the people re-stocking them?
Mark S. is clearly losing.
“When you say that you resent them imposing their views on you, how is that different from you telling your friend to throw out the pamphlets and confront the people re-stocking them?”
I’ve known this friend for 15 years. I know where she stands on Scientology– she thinks it’s a crock. But at the same time, she doesn’t know anything about Dianetics, or L. Ron Hubbard… sounds strange, but let’s face it: not everyone is up on the many names some churches employ. I have friends who are shocked to discover that the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints are the Mormons!
Anyway, she also trusts me, because I have never given her a reason to doubt me. But most importantly, the big difference betwen my actions and the actions of, say, a cult is that I presented her with a choice. If she decided to keep the pamphlets, there’d be nothing I could do about it. It’s her pet-grooming store, not mine. The fact that she threw them out is one thing, but the fact that she told me later on about the re-stocking of the pamphlets, in a tone that suggested she found it eerie that they re-stocked it in the first place… that tells me that she is not just listening to me blindly.
On the other hand, I wonder how many Americans would vote for a referendum to have all religious and/or pagan symbols removed from our currency. If some people can lobby to have the Pledge of Allegiance edited to exclude “under God”, then why can’t we the people vote on whether we want our money to contain Egyptian or Christian allusions?
I’m going to talk to the ACLU about this– it’s possible that maybe someone has already brought this up in the past, perhaps a member of the once-existant Anti-Masonic political party…
Yeah I get where you’re coming from better now that you elaborated.
Well I think the reason is that the Federal Reserve is a private institution, controlled by a private corporation out of Delaware, I think.
Anyway, I wonder if a case could be made that the dollar itself is a religious artifact?
I did some computer consulting work for my car mechanic a while back, and the software that he had on the machine (a special car-repair business package) had Scientology stuff in the help files. In fact, that’s ALL that was in the help files, nothing on how to use the software.
And this particular mechanic is a hard-core fundimentalist Christian.
What the hell? That’s totally weird!!
do we want another monolithic entity like the aclu taking on any more “causes”? my initial attemps to imagine a government run by the aclu would be indistinguishable from stalin`s russia.
I personally feel that the ACLU is an important institution that needs our help. They get a bad rap in the press, but they are necessary. I don’t see them as a ‘monolithic entity’. They don’t always win, and let us never forget how much of an albatross it can be politically– I’m thinking of Bush Sr. calling Michael Dukakis a “card-carrying member of the ACLU” in 1988.
I don’t think they are sacred saints, but they do live up to their name by protecting civil liberties. It’s too bad that the mainstream media only reports on the cases that seem absurd or ridiculous. My mother, who is becoming more and more progressive as the years go by, shocked me by telling me she consulted with the ACLU regarding a legal affair with one of her employers. The minute her former bosses heard she was getting the ACLU involved, they gave in and paid her what they owed her.
They’re not perfect, but I’ve seen them do wonders for those who cannot afford it.
One Trackback
[...]
I’m only posting this as a question to arouse the ire of a commenter on one of my previous posts who clearly has his pan [...]