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	<title>Comments on: Philosophical Paganism</title>
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	<pubDate>Sun, 22 Nov 2009 21:50:45 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Edward Butler</title>
		<link>http://www.timboucher.com/journal/2005/12/11/philosophical-paganism/comment-page-1/#comment-8709</link>
		<dc:creator>Edward Butler</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Dec 2005 00:20:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.timboucher.com/journal/2005/12/11/philosophical-paganism/#comment-8709</guid>
		<description>"Can you be, or is there a term for somebody who maybe believes and is â€œintoâ€ this stuff, but who doesnâ€™t practice any accompanying forms of magic/k, ritual or occult practice?"

Certainly. To be a polytheist means nothing more than that one believes there are many Gods; it doesn't speak to one's practices. A person could easily say, "I am a polytheist (or, 'I am a pagan'), that point of view seems correct to me, but I have not decided which God(s) I wish to worship or how I wish to go about it, nor am I interested in doing any magic at this time." There is nothing at all inconsistent in this, and in fact I think that it speaks to the position of more than a few people.

</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Can you be, or is there a term for somebody who maybe believes and is â€œintoâ€ this stuff, but who doesnâ€™t practice any accompanying forms of magic/k, ritual or occult practice?&#8221;</p>
<p>Certainly. To be a polytheist means nothing more than that one believes there are many Gods; it doesn&#8217;t speak to one&#8217;s practices. A person could easily say, &#8220;I am a polytheist (or, &#8216;I am a pagan&#8217;), that point of view seems correct to me, but I have not decided which God(s) I wish to worship or how I wish to go about it, nor am I interested in doing any magic at this time.&#8221; There is nothing at all inconsistent in this, and in fact I think that it speaks to the position of more than a few people.</p>
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		<title>By: Yvonne</title>
		<link>http://www.timboucher.com/journal/2005/12/11/philosophical-paganism/comment-page-1/#comment-8696</link>
		<dc:creator>Yvonne</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Dec 2005 16:57:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.timboucher.com/journal/2005/12/11/philosophical-paganism/#comment-8696</guid>
		<description>Many &lt;a href="http://www.manygods.org.uk" rel="nofollow"&gt;polytheists&lt;/a&gt; do not practice magic as an integral part of their religion.

I think the association of various Pagan paths with magic has come about because the occult revival happened &lt;em&gt;before&lt;/em&gt; the Pagan revival.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Many <a href="http://www.manygods.org.uk" rel="nofollow">polytheists</a> do not practice magic as an integral part of their religion.</p>
<p>I think the association of various Pagan paths with magic has come about because the occult revival happened <em>before</em> the Pagan revival.</p>
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		<title>By: Tim Boucher</title>
		<link>http://www.timboucher.com/journal/2005/12/11/philosophical-paganism/comment-page-1/#comment-8669</link>
		<dc:creator>Tim Boucher</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Dec 2005 01:01:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.timboucher.com/journal/2005/12/11/philosophical-paganism/#comment-8669</guid>
		<description>To quote Wayne's World: What if monkeys fly out of my butt?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>To quote Wayne&#8217;s World: What if monkeys fly out of my butt?</p>
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		<title>By: Ktulu</title>
		<link>http://www.timboucher.com/journal/2005/12/11/philosophical-paganism/comment-page-1/#comment-8666</link>
		<dc:creator>Ktulu</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Dec 2005 23:48:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.timboucher.com/journal/2005/12/11/philosophical-paganism/#comment-8666</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;What did it for me was a nice hit of acid and trying to comprehend the fact that the universe cannot be comprehended by the limited volume of grey matter inside your brain-bucketâ€¦&lt;/blockquote&gt;

What if your comprehension does not originate in that limited volume of grey matter?  What if consciousness is purely energy?  What if one could expand that energy, and thus expand one's ability to comprehend?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>What did it for me was a nice hit of acid and trying to comprehend the fact that the universe cannot be comprehended by the limited volume of grey matter inside your brain-bucketâ€¦</p></blockquote>
<p>What if your comprehension does not originate in that limited volume of grey matter?  What if consciousness is purely energy?  What if one could expand that energy, and thus expand one&#8217;s ability to comprehend?</p>
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		<title>By: Tim Boucher</title>
		<link>http://www.timboucher.com/journal/2005/12/11/philosophical-paganism/comment-page-1/#comment-8665</link>
		<dc:creator>Tim Boucher</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Dec 2005 23:20:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.timboucher.com/journal/2005/12/11/philosophical-paganism/#comment-8665</guid>
		<description>well you know more about it than me, being an astrologer. my realy point was that i dont think its necessary to villify christianity in order to praise paganism. the two dont need to be exclusive. and whatever happened in the past IS in the past. we can leave it there and we can make something useful out of all of whats available to us. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>well you know more about it than me, being an astrologer. my realy point was that i dont think its necessary to villify christianity in order to praise paganism. the two dont need to be exclusive. and whatever happened in the past IS in the past. we can leave it there and we can make something useful out of all of whats available to us.</p>
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		<title>By: Lynn</title>
		<link>http://www.timboucher.com/journal/2005/12/11/philosophical-paganism/comment-page-1/#comment-8663</link>
		<dc:creator>Lynn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Dec 2005 22:16:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.timboucher.com/journal/2005/12/11/philosophical-paganism/#comment-8663</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;Also, I think itâ€™s important to remember that much of astrological lore was brought to us by way of Christianity. Christ and his twelve disciples are themselves essentially astrological symbols &lt;/blockquote&gt;

Tim, with all due respect Chaldean astrology, which is the method practiced by the Greeks and what has come down to us today, originated with the Babylonians long before Christianity.  In fact I would argue that the early Church suppressed the study of astrology along with other sciences which is why those sciences ended up flowering in the Arabic countries instead during the Dark Ages.

It's an interesting point about the twelve disciples.  DaVinci's painting "The Last Supper" relates the disciples to the zodiac. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Also, I think itâ€™s important to remember that much of astrological lore was brought to us by way of Christianity. Christ and his twelve disciples are themselves essentially astrological symbols </p></blockquote>
<p>Tim, with all due respect Chaldean astrology, which is the method practiced by the Greeks and what has come down to us today, originated with the Babylonians long before Christianity.  In fact I would argue that the early Church suppressed the study of astrology along with other sciences which is why those sciences ended up flowering in the Arabic countries instead during the Dark Ages.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s an interesting point about the twelve disciples.  DaVinci&#8217;s painting &#8220;The Last Supper&#8221; relates the disciples to the zodiac.</p>
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		<title>By: Tim Boucher</title>
		<link>http://www.timboucher.com/journal/2005/12/11/philosophical-paganism/comment-page-1/#comment-8656</link>
		<dc:creator>Tim Boucher</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Dec 2005 19:05:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.timboucher.com/journal/2005/12/11/philosophical-paganism/#comment-8656</guid>
		<description>(Scott, BBcode doesn't work here. Just use HTML)

Juana, I think that's a great point both about the Jungians thing and about India as being a good example. That's one of the greatest things about Hinduism, I think - is that you actually can have that opinion that you're holding and that it's perfectly orthodox to have it on some level. They acknowledge that - *gasp!* - different people have different religious needs. 

</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>(Scott, BBcode doesn&#8217;t work here. Just use HTML)</p>
<p>Juana, I think that&#8217;s a great point both about the Jungians thing and about India as being a good example. That&#8217;s one of the greatest things about Hinduism, I think - is that you actually can have that opinion that you&#8217;re holding and that it&#8217;s perfectly orthodox to have it on some level. They acknowledge that - *gasp!* - different people have different religious needs.</p>
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		<title>By: scott rassbach</title>
		<link>http://www.timboucher.com/journal/2005/12/11/philosophical-paganism/comment-page-1/#comment-8653</link>
		<dc:creator>scott rassbach</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Dec 2005 18:36:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.timboucher.com/journal/2005/12/11/philosophical-paganism/#comment-8653</guid>
		<description>You know, many Christians are polytheistic.  Vox Day is one who infamously has said that Christianity is not a monotheistic religion, otherwise why would you need the commandment "Thou shalt have [i]no other gods[/i] before me."?

http://voxday.blogspot.com/2005/12/mailvox-christians-are-polytheists.html

So if you get an easter/Christmas christian, you may have what you're looking for...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You know, many Christians are polytheistic.  Vox Day is one who infamously has said that Christianity is not a monotheistic religion, otherwise why would you need the commandment &#8220;Thou shalt have [i]no other gods[/i] before me.&#8221;?</p>
<p><a href="http://voxday.blogspot.com/2005/12/mailvox-christians-are-polytheists.html" rel="nofollow"></a><a href='http://voxday.blogspot.com/2005/12/mailvox-christians-are-polytheists.html'>http://voxday.blogspot.com/2005/12/mailvox-christians-are-polytheists.html</a></p>
<p>So if you get an easter/Christmas christian, you may have what you&#8217;re looking for&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: jp</title>
		<link>http://www.timboucher.com/journal/2005/12/11/philosophical-paganism/comment-page-1/#comment-8652</link>
		<dc:creator>jp</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Dec 2005 17:48:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.timboucher.com/journal/2005/12/11/philosophical-paganism/#comment-8652</guid>
		<description>i think you're describing like the more philosophical paganism of the ancient greeks and romans, like plato and his pals.  they 'worshipped the gods' and whatnot, but they tended to call themselves 'philosophers,' 'cause that was their bag.  philosophy's become such a watered-down discipline these days thanks to the frickin' existentialists and materialists, but back in the day it used to be far more like what we do around here.

seriously, though, what would be a good term for someone who follows the path of radical inquiry?  an 'enquirer'?    </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>i think you&#8217;re describing like the more philosophical paganism of the ancient greeks and romans, like plato and his pals.  they &#8216;worshipped the gods&#8217; and whatnot, but they tended to call themselves &#8216;philosophers,&#8217; &#8217;cause that was their bag.  philosophy&#8217;s become such a watered-down discipline these days thanks to the frickin&#8217; existentialists and materialists, but back in the day it used to be far more like what we do around here.</p>
<p>seriously, though, what would be a good term for someone who follows the path of radical inquiry?  an &#8216;enquirer&#8217;?</p>
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		<title>By: juana</title>
		<link>http://www.timboucher.com/journal/2005/12/11/philosophical-paganism/comment-page-1/#comment-8651</link>
		<dc:creator>juana</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Dec 2005 15:22:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.timboucher.com/journal/2005/12/11/philosophical-paganism/#comment-8651</guid>
		<description>Yes, there are such people, they're called Jungians.  Seriously, that would probably be more common in a place where polytheism is the norm, like India. There are probably people there who don't literally believe in gods, but think its good for personal and national character and morality to pay lip sevice to them, like 'spiritual' Christian types do here.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes, there are such people, they&#8217;re called Jungians.  Seriously, that would probably be more common in a place where polytheism is the norm, like India. There are probably people there who don&#8217;t literally believe in gods, but think its good for personal and national character and morality to pay lip sevice to them, like &#8217;spiritual&#8217; Christian types do here.</p>
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		<title>By: Tim Boucher</title>
		<link>http://www.timboucher.com/journal/2005/12/11/philosophical-paganism/comment-page-1/#comment-8626</link>
		<dc:creator>Tim Boucher</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Dec 2005 02:39:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.timboucher.com/journal/2005/12/11/philosophical-paganism/#comment-8626</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;Categorization leads to calamity!&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Or hilariousness! Seriously, people are too down on labels and categories, but that's already been addressed here ad nauseum. 

&lt;blockquote&gt;religious but not spiritual that is fuckinâ€™ hilarious. I think your a fuckin agnostic, dude, like doubting Thomas.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

It's not really that easy to describe what I am I guess, but I'm 101% not agnostic. Hell, I even had a dream where Jesus came and told me a parable about my life's mission, and another dream where God brought me to this cave and showed me a black rock carved with an agreement between me and him. Pretty much the opposite of agnostic if you ask me.  </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Categorization leads to calamity!</p></blockquote>
<p>Or hilariousness! Seriously, people are too down on labels and categories, but that&#8217;s already been addressed here ad nauseum. </p>
<blockquote><p>religious but not spiritual that is fuckinâ€™ hilarious. I think your a fuckin agnostic, dude, like doubting Thomas.</p></blockquote>
<p>It&#8217;s not really that easy to describe what I am I guess, but I&#8217;m 101% not agnostic. Hell, I even had a dream where Jesus came and told me a parable about my life&#8217;s mission, and another dream where God brought me to this cave and showed me a black rock carved with an agreement between me and him. Pretty much the opposite of agnostic if you ask me.</p>
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		<title>By: Thomas Conlon</title>
		<link>http://www.timboucher.com/journal/2005/12/11/philosophical-paganism/comment-page-1/#comment-8624</link>
		<dc:creator>Thomas Conlon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Dec 2005 02:29:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.timboucher.com/journal/2005/12/11/philosophical-paganism/#comment-8624</guid>
		<description>religious but not spiritual that is fuckin' hilarious.  I think your a fuckin agnostic, dude, like doubting Thomas.

What did it for me was a nice hit of acid and trying to comprehend the fact that the universe cannot be comprehended by the limited volume of grey matter inside your brain-bucket...

I wrote an essay at St. Bonnie's about how it was a legitimate ineffable religious experience and I consider it a point of samadhi, and I got an A on the paper, too.

I mean 12 times a day I'll think "thank god that truck didn't bang into me" and shit  like that, I mean I don't beseech the Lord or anything, but "Thank God" definitely comes out of my mouth at certain times (I think it was having the kids), its like a social programming thing I think or  some hangover or vestige of something, Although I find the idea of the whole Kingdom of God thing a bit annoying, heaven as a carrot, "empire" as the stick to enforce rules, we all know that...  

Don't feel bad you are interested in this stuff, it shows a lot of personal open-minded-ness as if I just wear my little ol' pentagram people always give me wierd looks, and I don't have tats or an amputation or anything...

It sucks not being able to represent your "faith" like a fuckin cross...

I mean I call myself a witch if a jehova's witness gets in my face, and yeah I'm a minerval or whatever but you know I kinda feel the same way, like I'm not a "joiner" I guess?

I do teach my kids to say "blessed be" when someone sneezes though.  Sounds better than "bless you".

Categorization leads to calamity!

-tc

"If my wings should fail me Lord,
won't you meet me with another pair?"</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>religious but not spiritual that is fuckin&#8217; hilarious.  I think your a fuckin agnostic, dude, like doubting Thomas.</p>
<p>What did it for me was a nice hit of acid and trying to comprehend the fact that the universe cannot be comprehended by the limited volume of grey matter inside your brain-bucket&#8230;</p>
<p>I wrote an essay at St. Bonnie&#8217;s about how it was a legitimate ineffable religious experience and I consider it a point of samadhi, and I got an A on the paper, too.</p>
<p>I mean 12 times a day I&#8217;ll think &#8220;thank god that truck didn&#8217;t bang into me&#8221; and shit  like that, I mean I don&#8217;t beseech the Lord or anything, but &#8220;Thank God&#8221; definitely comes out of my mouth at certain times (I think it was having the kids), its like a social programming thing I think or  some hangover or vestige of something, Although I find the idea of the whole Kingdom of God thing a bit annoying, heaven as a carrot, &#8220;empire&#8221; as the stick to enforce rules, we all know that&#8230;  </p>
<p>Don&#8217;t feel bad you are interested in this stuff, it shows a lot of personal open-minded-ness as if I just wear my little ol&#8217; pentagram people always give me wierd looks, and I don&#8217;t have tats or an amputation or anything&#8230;</p>
<p>It sucks not being able to represent your &#8220;faith&#8221; like a fuckin cross&#8230;</p>
<p>I mean I call myself a witch if a jehova&#8217;s witness gets in my face, and yeah I&#8217;m a minerval or whatever but you know I kinda feel the same way, like I&#8217;m not a &#8220;joiner&#8221; I guess?</p>
<p>I do teach my kids to say &#8220;blessed be&#8221; when someone sneezes though.  Sounds better than &#8220;bless you&#8221;.</p>
<p>Categorization leads to calamity!</p>
<p>-tc</p>
<p>&#8220;If my wings should fail me Lord,<br />
won&#8217;t you meet me with another pair?&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Relative State</title>
		<link>http://www.timboucher.com/journal/2005/12/11/philosophical-paganism/comment-page-1/#comment-8617</link>
		<dc:creator>Relative State</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Dec 2005 01:57:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.timboucher.com/journal/2005/12/11/philosophical-paganism/#comment-8617</guid>
		<description>Heh, or maybe also someone in the vein of James Hillman, who might see the Gods as deep psychological symbols and understand themselves in terms of divine/archetypal perspectives&#8212;thus the Gods would mean a great deal to them and play a large role in their life, but without the whole "pentagram-wearing spell-casting thing".

I don't know.  It kind of bothers me, the way all kinds of nuances of belief (if you would even call that 'belief') and the ways people relate to what they consider divine are "off the map" so to speak.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Heh, or maybe also someone in the vein of James Hillman, who might see the Gods as deep psychological symbols and understand themselves in terms of divine/archetypal perspectives&mdash;thus the Gods would mean a great deal to them and play a large role in their life, but without the whole &#8220;pentagram-wearing spell-casting thing&#8221;.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t know.  It kind of bothers me, the way all kinds of nuances of belief (if you would even call that &#8216;belief&#8217;) and the ways people relate to what they consider divine are &#8220;off the map&#8221; so to speak.</p>
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		<title>By: Tim Boucher</title>
		<link>http://www.timboucher.com/journal/2005/12/11/philosophical-paganism/comment-page-1/#comment-8613</link>
		<dc:creator>Tim Boucher</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Dec 2005 01:33:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.timboucher.com/journal/2005/12/11/philosophical-paganism/#comment-8613</guid>
		<description>Dan, maybe. I always imagine though when people ask the question, "Are you a practicing Catholic? (or whatever)" I want to say, "No, I'm a professional. I don't need any more practice."</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dan, maybe. I always imagine though when people ask the question, &#8220;Are you a practicing Catholic? (or whatever)&#8221; I want to say, &#8220;No, I&#8217;m a professional. I don&#8217;t need any more practice.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Tim Boucher</title>
		<link>http://www.timboucher.com/journal/2005/12/11/philosophical-paganism/comment-page-1/#comment-8612</link>
		<dc:creator>Tim Boucher</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Dec 2005 01:32:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.timboucher.com/journal/2005/12/11/philosophical-paganism/#comment-8612</guid>
		<description>Let's not forget that people of all religious persuasions murder and pillage...

Also, I think it's important to remember that much of astrological lore was brought to us by way of Christianity. Christ and his twelve disciples are themselves essentially astrological symbols</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Let&#8217;s not forget that people of all religious persuasions murder and pillage&#8230;</p>
<p>Also, I think it&#8217;s important to remember that much of astrological lore was brought to us by way of Christianity. Christ and his twelve disciples are themselves essentially astrological symbols</p>
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		<title>By: Lynn</title>
		<link>http://www.timboucher.com/journal/2005/12/11/philosophical-paganism/comment-page-1/#comment-8611</link>
		<dc:creator>Lynn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Dec 2005 01:29:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.timboucher.com/journal/2005/12/11/philosophical-paganism/#comment-8611</guid>
		<description>I believe, but I'm not sure, that the term "pagan" originally meant "peasant," and what we now call "paganism" was the customs of the regular people in early pre-Christian times.  Paganism is therefore not actually wicca, or witchcraft, but a more animist belief in the cycles of nature and the intelligence behind those cycles.  As an astrologer I find this view to be wise and rooted in authenticity, unlike the dogma of religion which is rooted in what one person decided everyone else should believe and then proceeded to murder and pillage in order to sway others to their opinion.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I believe, but I&#8217;m not sure, that the term &#8220;pagan&#8221; originally meant &#8220;peasant,&#8221; and what we now call &#8220;paganism&#8221; was the customs of the regular people in early pre-Christian times.  Paganism is therefore not actually wicca, or witchcraft, but a more animist belief in the cycles of nature and the intelligence behind those cycles.  As an astrologer I find this view to be wise and rooted in authenticity, unlike the dogma of religion which is rooted in what one person decided everyone else should believe and then proceeded to murder and pillage in order to sway others to their opinion.</p>
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		<title>By: Dan</title>
		<link>http://www.timboucher.com/journal/2005/12/11/philosophical-paganism/comment-page-1/#comment-8610</link>
		<dc:creator>Dan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Dec 2005 01:22:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.timboucher.com/journal/2005/12/11/philosophical-paganism/#comment-8610</guid>
		<description>I'd call the people you're describing "non-practicing."</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;d call the people you&#8217;re describing &#8220;non-practicing.&#8221;</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: channel null</title>
		<link>http://www.timboucher.com/journal/2005/12/11/philosophical-paganism/comment-page-1/#comment-8604</link>
		<dc:creator>channel null</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 11 Dec 2005 23:50:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.timboucher.com/journal/2005/12/11/philosophical-paganism/#comment-8604</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;I always want to tell people that Iâ€™m religious but not spiritual, just to be a jerk.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

My sentiments exactly, especially the jerk part. A wise man once said:

&lt;blockquote&gt;Thank god I'm an atheist.&lt;/blockquote&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>I always want to tell people that Iâ€™m religious but not spiritual, just to be a jerk.</p></blockquote>
<p>My sentiments exactly, especially the jerk part. A wise man once said:</p>
<blockquote><p>Thank god I&#8217;m an atheist.</p></blockquote>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
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