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	<title>Comments on: Confessions About Confession</title>
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	<pubDate>Sun, 22 Nov 2009 12:47:10 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Haeresis</title>
		<link>http://www.timboucher.com/journal/2005/12/20/confessions-about-confession/comment-page-1/#comment-9135</link>
		<dc:creator>Haeresis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 23 Dec 2005 19:20:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.timboucher.com/journal/2005/12/20/confessions-about-confession/#comment-9135</guid>
		<description>I hated confession.  I was a pretty well-behaved kid, so mostly it was an exercise in creativity.  (It never occurred to me that making up sins could be interpreted as one)  It had to be something bad enough for the priest to accept, but not so bad you'd get the big penance assignment.

We had confessionals, but only the adults used those.  We sat in folding chairs across fromt the priest, who was never any that I got along with, but always one of the old geezers who just sat there and waited for you to talk.  Yuck.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I hated confession.  I was a pretty well-behaved kid, so mostly it was an exercise in creativity.  (It never occurred to me that making up sins could be interpreted as one)  It had to be something bad enough for the priest to accept, but not so bad you&#8217;d get the big penance assignment.</p>
<p>We had confessionals, but only the adults used those.  We sat in folding chairs across fromt the priest, who was never any that I got along with, but always one of the old geezers who just sat there and waited for you to talk.  Yuck.</p>
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		<title>By: james</title>
		<link>http://www.timboucher.com/journal/2005/12/20/confessions-about-confession/comment-page-1/#comment-9115</link>
		<dc:creator>james</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Dec 2005 23:42:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.timboucher.com/journal/2005/12/20/confessions-about-confession/#comment-9115</guid>
		<description>Blogs are but one perception of confession. I get pretty personal on mine, but I change names, fabricate events, and basically render it fiction despite using real people and events as the basis.

It is no longer confessional in the sense that I am not ashamed of anything I write down in my blog. But I might be ashamed of what I confide in a priest, best friend, or family member, because in all probability I will tell them the truth unembellished.  </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Blogs are but one perception of confession. I get pretty personal on mine, but I change names, fabricate events, and basically render it fiction despite using real people and events as the basis.</p>
<p>It is no longer confessional in the sense that I am not ashamed of anything I write down in my blog. But I might be ashamed of what I confide in a priest, best friend, or family member, because in all probability I will tell them the truth unembellished.</p>
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		<title>By: Tim Boucher</title>
		<link>http://www.timboucher.com/journal/2005/12/20/confessions-about-confession/comment-page-1/#comment-9101</link>
		<dc:creator>Tim Boucher</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Dec 2005 03:41:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.timboucher.com/journal/2005/12/20/confessions-about-confession/#comment-9101</guid>
		<description>In a way though, what are blogs already except public confessions? Maybe they aren't our worst secrets all the time, but certainly it can get very personal.

I do agree though about there being a danger in this sort of thing within groups where once they know everything about your life, they know what buttons to push to keep you inline.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In a way though, what are blogs already except public confessions? Maybe they aren&#8217;t our worst secrets all the time, but certainly it can get very personal.</p>
<p>I do agree though about there being a danger in this sort of thing within groups where once they know everything about your life, they know what buttons to push to keep you inline.</p>
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		<title>By: james</title>
		<link>http://www.timboucher.com/journal/2005/12/20/confessions-about-confession/comment-page-1/#comment-9100</link>
		<dc:creator>james</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Dec 2005 03:28:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.timboucher.com/journal/2005/12/20/confessions-about-confession/#comment-9100</guid>
		<description>I have one major reservation with confession.

Religious cults use confession of sins as emotional blackmail. The International Church of Christ, among others, advocates confessing your deepest darkest sins to the church elders, right before they pull out the Money Vac and suck up the contents of your wallet.

Yes, confessing is liberating, but it also makes a person &lt;i&gt;vulnerable&lt;/i&gt; and susceptible to manipulation.

I'm not inferring that anyone on this board would use a "Confession Booth" program illicitly... but then again, we're only human. Tread lightly in this area, if you must.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have one major reservation with confession.</p>
<p>Religious cults use confession of sins as emotional blackmail. The International Church of Christ, among others, advocates confessing your deepest darkest sins to the church elders, right before they pull out the Money Vac and suck up the contents of your wallet.</p>
<p>Yes, confessing is liberating, but it also makes a person <i>vulnerable</i> and susceptible to manipulation.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m not inferring that anyone on this board would use a &#8220;Confession Booth&#8221; program illicitly&#8230; but then again, we&#8217;re only human. Tread lightly in this area, if you must.</p>
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		<title>By: Tim Boucher</title>
		<link>http://www.timboucher.com/journal/2005/12/20/confessions-about-confession/comment-page-1/#comment-9097</link>
		<dc:creator>Tim Boucher</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Dec 2005 01:21:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.timboucher.com/journal/2005/12/20/confessions-about-confession/#comment-9097</guid>
		<description>I think I might just go with the name "Trespasses" as in "Forgive us our"... what do you think? Maybe I'll get this up and running tonight!

Or even better yet: "&lt;del datetime="2005-12-21T20:33:2005:00"&gt;For&lt;/del&gt;give us our trespasses"</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think I might just go with the name &#8220;Trespasses&#8221; as in &#8220;Forgive us our&#8221;&#8230; what do you think? Maybe I&#8217;ll get this up and running tonight!</p>
<p>Or even better yet: &#8220;<del datetime="2005-12-21T20:33:2005:00">For</del>give us our trespasses&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Tim Boucher</title>
		<link>http://www.timboucher.com/journal/2005/12/20/confessions-about-confession/comment-page-1/#comment-9096</link>
		<dc:creator>Tim Boucher</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Dec 2005 01:10:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.timboucher.com/journal/2005/12/20/confessions-about-confession/#comment-9096</guid>
		<description>Wow, that's totally awesome. I wonder if there's a way we could really make that work. I was also thinking about something along the lines of a party line, except instead of partying, you leave a message about something really bad you did, so you can get it off your chest. Then you can also call in and hear about other people's sins.

I can't remember if this is real or not, but I feel like there's some near-futuristic movie where they have sort of like electronic booths on the street where you can go and take confession at. Is that in Blade Runner?

Another thing that I was reminded of while reading this: supposedly, one of the things they do in the Skull &#38; Bones initiation ritual is like (I heard, who knows if its true), they have to tell each other all their sexual histories (quite possibly while masturbating in a coffin). Now, that might be kind of extreme, but I think the same basic premise could really work.

If nothing else, I should set up a blog or forum in the Pop Occulture Network where I collect accounts of people's sins. Seems like that would be totally awesome. Actually, I think I'll do that! More on that to follow. What's a good name for it?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wow, that&#8217;s totally awesome. I wonder if there&#8217;s a way we could really make that work. I was also thinking about something along the lines of a party line, except instead of partying, you leave a message about something really bad you did, so you can get it off your chest. Then you can also call in and hear about other people&#8217;s sins.</p>
<p>I can&#8217;t remember if this is real or not, but I feel like there&#8217;s some near-futuristic movie where they have sort of like electronic booths on the street where you can go and take confession at. Is that in Blade Runner?</p>
<p>Another thing that I was reminded of while reading this: supposedly, one of the things they do in the Skull &amp; Bones initiation ritual is like (I heard, who knows if its true), they have to tell each other all their sexual histories (quite possibly while masturbating in a coffin). Now, that might be kind of extreme, but I think the same basic premise could really work.</p>
<p>If nothing else, I should set up a blog or forum in the Pop Occulture Network where I collect accounts of people&#8217;s sins. Seems like that would be totally awesome. Actually, I think I&#8217;ll do that! More on that to follow. What&#8217;s a good name for it?</p>
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		<title>By: Garrett Kelly</title>
		<link>http://www.timboucher.com/journal/2005/12/20/confessions-about-confession/comment-page-1/#comment-9094</link>
		<dc:creator>Garrett Kelly</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Dec 2005 01:02:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.timboucher.com/journal/2005/12/20/confessions-about-confession/#comment-9094</guid>
		<description>Remember my old site had a tag line about how Jesus wanted you to confess your sins so he could hear all your good gossip?

I think you're right on Tim. We SHOULD confess "our sins", and not necessarily to priests but instead with eachother (I guess priests are people too). 

What I'm thinking is something like grouphug.us ? 

Confession is not only good for the person revealing all their sins, but also for the people who actually witness people revealing something secret and embarrassing and flawed in their character. 

Whenever I hear someone tell me something private that's been bugging them it makes ME feel liberated. Not because I feel like I'm better than them, but because it starts to feel easier for me to let go of all the things I have guilt about. There is a lot of weight from feeling that you have done somethign that no one else would ever do, and if anyone found out you'd be ostracized. 

Confession is one way out. There is something really free-ing about sharing secrets. Something really intimate about learning your new roommate also got caught masturbating by his grandma. 

Did I ever tell you my idea for a "Confession Booth" chat program?

Basically, all users start out as "sinners" and they
have to confess secrets to strangers who are "priests" (premium accounts). 

If you admit a juicy enough piece of dirt, the priest can confer upon you an
"indulgence". After so many indulgences - say five good secrets (and five good indulgences) you are upgraded to priest for a time being, so you can listen to other people's bad behavior.

It sounds like heaven to me, but shit, I'm a gossip queen. 



</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Remember my old site had a tag line about how Jesus wanted you to confess your sins so he could hear all your good gossip?</p>
<p>I think you&#8217;re right on Tim. We SHOULD confess &#8220;our sins&#8221;, and not necessarily to priests but instead with eachother (I guess priests are people too). </p>
<p>What I&#8217;m thinking is something like grouphug.us ? </p>
<p>Confession is not only good for the person revealing all their sins, but also for the people who actually witness people revealing something secret and embarrassing and flawed in their character. </p>
<p>Whenever I hear someone tell me something private that&#8217;s been bugging them it makes ME feel liberated. Not because I feel like I&#8217;m better than them, but because it starts to feel easier for me to let go of all the things I have guilt about. There is a lot of weight from feeling that you have done somethign that no one else would ever do, and if anyone found out you&#8217;d be ostracized. </p>
<p>Confession is one way out. There is something really free-ing about sharing secrets. Something really intimate about learning your new roommate also got caught masturbating by his grandma. </p>
<p>Did I ever tell you my idea for a &#8220;Confession Booth&#8221; chat program?</p>
<p>Basically, all users start out as &#8220;sinners&#8221; and they<br />
have to confess secrets to strangers who are &#8220;priests&#8221; (premium accounts). </p>
<p>If you admit a juicy enough piece of dirt, the priest can confer upon you an<br />
&#8220;indulgence&#8221;. After so many indulgences - say five good secrets (and five good indulgences) you are upgraded to priest for a time being, so you can listen to other people&#8217;s bad behavior.</p>
<p>It sounds like heaven to me, but shit, I&#8217;m a gossip queen.</p>
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		<title>By: alistair</title>
		<link>http://www.timboucher.com/journal/2005/12/20/confessions-about-confession/comment-page-1/#comment-9083</link>
		<dc:creator>alistair</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Dec 2005 20:17:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.timboucher.com/journal/2005/12/20/confessions-about-confession/#comment-9083</guid>
		<description>pre-suppositions are what drive us forward. if we pre-suppose that confession is a necessary part of spiritual growth then that becomes part of our behaviour. if we ask where the pre-supposition comes from then we see that it comes from the dogma of the church it`s self. if we have faith that the churches dogma is spiritually valid then we can proceed with confidence and sit in the box behind the curtain and tell the priest our sins. otherwise the discomfort is masochistic.
my question to catholics is about the spiritual validity of feeling bad. do you guys think that you are moving toward spiritual enlightenment through the process of confession?
my view is that we make better decisions when we feel good. we know this intuitively and through the examination of our own experience, so if we are being asked to feel badly on a weekly basis for our human behaviour and not being absolved by default then the disonance we are experiencing is going to take from our ability to make decisions, an important function of our lives.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>pre-suppositions are what drive us forward. if we pre-suppose that confession is a necessary part of spiritual growth then that becomes part of our behaviour. if we ask where the pre-supposition comes from then we see that it comes from the dogma of the church it`s self. if we have faith that the churches dogma is spiritually valid then we can proceed with confidence and sit in the box behind the curtain and tell the priest our sins. otherwise the discomfort is masochistic.<br />
my question to catholics is about the spiritual validity of feeling bad. do you guys think that you are moving toward spiritual enlightenment through the process of confession?<br />
my view is that we make better decisions when we feel good. we know this intuitively and through the examination of our own experience, so if we are being asked to feel badly on a weekly basis for our human behaviour and not being absolved by default then the disonance we are experiencing is going to take from our ability to make decisions, an important function of our lives.</p>
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		<title>By: poo bear</title>
		<link>http://www.timboucher.com/journal/2005/12/20/confessions-about-confession/comment-page-1/#comment-9076</link>
		<dc:creator>poo bear</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Dec 2005 18:36:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.timboucher.com/journal/2005/12/20/confessions-about-confession/#comment-9076</guid>
		<description>confession is part of spiritual growth. It doesn't matter to whom you confess, it matters that you recognized the need for improvement.  If you think that the goal of life is to get closer to god, then recognizing the desires and the acts that pull in the opposite direction will help you stay your course.  If you think that since you are saved anyway, it doesn't matter what you do in this life, you would still be wise in the long run to put the focus on spiritual communion with god, as chasing after material desires has proven throughout time to be essentially unsatisfying.  </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>confession is part of spiritual growth. It doesn&#8217;t matter to whom you confess, it matters that you recognized the need for improvement.  If you think that the goal of life is to get closer to god, then recognizing the desires and the acts that pull in the opposite direction will help you stay your course.  If you think that since you are saved anyway, it doesn&#8217;t matter what you do in this life, you would still be wise in the long run to put the focus on spiritual communion with god, as chasing after material desires has proven throughout time to be essentially unsatisfying.</p>
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		<title>By: James Russell</title>
		<link>http://www.timboucher.com/journal/2005/12/20/confessions-about-confession/comment-page-1/#comment-9050</link>
		<dc:creator>James Russell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Dec 2005 01:36:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.timboucher.com/journal/2005/12/20/confessions-about-confession/#comment-9050</guid>
		<description>Why have something like confession at all? If you accept that God is omnipotent, it follows he must also be omniscient; if he can do everything, then he must also be capable of knowing everything. Consequently, whatever you do wrong, he'll know about it &lt;i&gt;without&lt;/i&gt; you having to confess it.

If people want to beat up on themselves in the confession box as a reminder of their own imperfection, that's up to them, but personally the thought that God already knows my sins would be enough for me...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Why have something like confession at all? If you accept that God is omnipotent, it follows he must also be omniscient; if he can do everything, then he must also be capable of knowing everything. Consequently, whatever you do wrong, he&#8217;ll know about it <i>without</i> you having to confess it.</p>
<p>If people want to beat up on themselves in the confession box as a reminder of their own imperfection, that&#8217;s up to them, but personally the thought that God already knows my sins would be enough for me&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Gnomely</title>
		<link>http://www.timboucher.com/journal/2005/12/20/confessions-about-confession/comment-page-1/#comment-9045</link>
		<dc:creator>Gnomely</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 Dec 2005 23:29:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.timboucher.com/journal/2005/12/20/confessions-about-confession/#comment-9045</guid>
		<description>   I didn't like confession, my priest truly looked like Sigmund Freud.  Which is appropriate, the Catholic church made me feel so guilty.  I could never masturbate more than once a year as a teenager. I remember how great it was when I could have sex with out guilt afterwards. 
 Anyways if it is true there are infinite levels of consciousness I do feel sort of sorry for the little sperm cells meeting their demise. Anyways the world is overpopulated, so  I hope there are other worlds for souls and sperms to inhabit.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I didn&#8217;t like confession, my priest truly looked like Sigmund Freud.  Which is appropriate, the Catholic church made me feel so guilty.  I could never masturbate more than once a year as a teenager. I remember how great it was when I could have sex with out guilt afterwards.<br />
 Anyways if it is true there are infinite levels of consciousness I do feel sort of sorry for the little sperm cells meeting their demise. Anyways the world is overpopulated, so  I hope there are other worlds for souls and sperms to inhabit.</p>
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		<title>By: rev max</title>
		<link>http://www.timboucher.com/journal/2005/12/20/confessions-about-confession/comment-page-1/#comment-9041</link>
		<dc:creator>rev max</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 Dec 2005 22:42:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.timboucher.com/journal/2005/12/20/confessions-about-confession/#comment-9041</guid>
		<description>hmmm, not sure why that posted, i actually backed out the page first. Anywho, yeah, i agree, the purpose of confession is probably just being honest w. yourself.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>hmmm, not sure why that posted, i actually backed out the page first. Anywho, yeah, i agree, the purpose of confession is probably just being honest w. yourself.</p>
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		<title>By: rev max</title>
		<link>http://www.timboucher.com/journal/2005/12/20/confessions-about-confession/comment-page-1/#comment-9037</link>
		<dc:creator>rev max</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 Dec 2005 22:27:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.timboucher.com/journal/2005/12/20/confessions-about-confession/#comment-9037</guid>
		<description> There's a classic Zen story about two celibate monks who are walking on a pilgrimage. They come across a girl who is very lovely and beautiful and sexual, and she wants to cross the river. 

The young monk is attracted to her, and he says, "I'll take you on my shoulders and carry you across the river and drop you off on the other side." He does that, and the two monks continue on their pilgrimage until after a while the old monk starts to have a frown on his face. 

He's upset. Six hours, seven hours go by, and finally he looks at the young one and says, "I can't believe you did that." 

"Did what?" the young monk asks. 

"You carried that woman on your shoulders." 

"I dropped her off six hours ago," the young monk says, "but you're still carrying her."</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There&#8217;s a classic Zen story about two celibate monks who are walking on a pilgrimage. They come across a girl who is very lovely and beautiful and sexual, and she wants to cross the river. </p>
<p>The young monk is attracted to her, and he says, &#8220;I&#8217;ll take you on my shoulders and carry you across the river and drop you off on the other side.&#8221; He does that, and the two monks continue on their pilgrimage until after a while the old monk starts to have a frown on his face. </p>
<p>He&#8217;s upset. Six hours, seven hours go by, and finally he looks at the young one and says, &#8220;I can&#8217;t believe you did that.&#8221; </p>
<p>&#8220;Did what?&#8221; the young monk asks. </p>
<p>&#8220;You carried that woman on your shoulders.&#8221; </p>
<p>&#8220;I dropped her off six hours ago,&#8221; the young monk says, &#8220;but you&#8217;re still carrying her.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: james</title>
		<link>http://www.timboucher.com/journal/2005/12/20/confessions-about-confession/comment-page-1/#comment-9034</link>
		<dc:creator>james</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 Dec 2005 21:26:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.timboucher.com/journal/2005/12/20/confessions-about-confession/#comment-9034</guid>
		<description>My dad was raised Catholic but converted to Evangelical (fundamentalist) Christianity as a young man. Growing up, he always stressed the difference between confessing to a priest and cofessing to God. I guess he didn't like the notion of confessing to a priest... and neither do I.

Funny thing is, as a kid I thought confession was cooler because then you get forgiven at the end of the week, which (in my mind) meant you could sin away the first six days and then repent on the seventh. But as I talked to more Catholics, I began to realize that not everyone is as cavalier about confessing sins as I am, esp. if the sins are weighty and hard to reckon with.

In a way, Protestant Christianity has made repentance an easier ordeal, because Jesus already died for the sinner's sin-- all the sinner has to do is accept God or bow down to Christ. No ritual, no mandatory baptisms or communions... I mean, non-Catholic denoms still practice baptism and communion, but not with the Catholic fanfare and importance attached.

What's harder-- to accept God in a blanket fashion, or to accept that you are not perfect on a weekly basis in the confession box? I guess it is a matter of personal taste.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My dad was raised Catholic but converted to Evangelical (fundamentalist) Christianity as a young man. Growing up, he always stressed the difference between confessing to a priest and cofessing to God. I guess he didn&#8217;t like the notion of confessing to a priest&#8230; and neither do I.</p>
<p>Funny thing is, as a kid I thought confession was cooler because then you get forgiven at the end of the week, which (in my mind) meant you could sin away the first six days and then repent on the seventh. But as I talked to more Catholics, I began to realize that not everyone is as cavalier about confessing sins as I am, esp. if the sins are weighty and hard to reckon with.</p>
<p>In a way, Protestant Christianity has made repentance an easier ordeal, because Jesus already died for the sinner&#8217;s sin&#8211; all the sinner has to do is accept God or bow down to Christ. No ritual, no mandatory baptisms or communions&#8230; I mean, non-Catholic denoms still practice baptism and communion, but not with the Catholic fanfare and importance attached.</p>
<p>What&#8217;s harder&#8211; to accept God in a blanket fashion, or to accept that you are not perfect on a weekly basis in the confession box? I guess it is a matter of personal taste.</p>
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