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The Vortex: Spiritual Warp Zones
In part 1 of this series, we introduced the Spiritual Orbits model to describe different paths and patterns in contemporary spirituality and alternative religious exploration. No matter how good a model is though, it’s always inaccurate on some level. It is a linguistic and conceptual construct, rather than something we can hold in our hands, look at or eat. Life is always more complex, beautiful and staggering than even the best models.
What models let us do though, is wrap our experiences in symbols and context which we can then manipulate as though they were real. At their best, models can give us sort of a steering wheel and dashboard to navigate our way through internal experiences. At worst , we become so blinded by language and concepts that we take our eyes off the road ahead and crash. Unfortunately, when you become heavily invested in a model, accidents like this are inevitable. So rather than try to avoid them, let’s build the “flaw” right into our model. In fact, let’s put it right at the center!
While humans tend to find comfort in maps and models, the divine source has no regard for the names and concepts we throw at it. In fact, whatever it is, it seems to delight in confounding our ability to understand, categorize and name. Scattered throughout religious, occult, psychological and psychedelic traditions, we find again and again moments where all the maps and models melt away in a dizzying burst of pure unmediated experience: the Vortex.
Such transformative events go by many names, depending on the cultural context:
- gnosis
- enlightenment
- awakening
- divine grace
- revelation, theophany
- shamanic crisis
- ego death
- dark night of the soul
- near death experience
- alien abduction
- spirit possession
- psychedelic trip
While it would be difficult and probably fruitless to argue that the experiences listed above are totally synonymous, we can provisionally recognize that each one arises from and refers to a specific category of experience - the category that goes beyond all categories.
Each one, in turn, carries with it a set of symbols and a cultural mythology. These allow us handles to grab hold of experiences which are otherwise wholly outside of language, and to understand the relative value that our culture places on such things. In the West, people who slip into a Vortex and temporarily transcend all categories are typically seen as crazy, while in another culture, they might be seen as blessed or magical. Within the context of the Spiritual Orbits model, these Vortex events are understood as “spiritual warp zones.” They take our map and fold it over or crumple it up in a ball. We are zapped across the map, without regard for any kind of order or linear progression. They are transformative events which shock us out of the ruts and patterns we are stuck in.
Dealing With the Vortex
During a Vortex event, we may find our ordinary world shattered as if in a private Apocalyptic meltdown. The familiar contours of the things we thought we knew, believed and understood suddenly drop away. Comforting forms descend into a whirlpool of raw creative energy. A Vortex may arise spontaneously at any point in the Spiritual Orbits model. In most cases, Vortex events trigger a shift between orbits, either closer towards the center or more distant. The way in which the influx of creative archetypal energy is processed largely determines the outcome of the event.
Though they can and do occur anywhere, the prototypical Vortex event overtakes a person in the Coil Orbit. Whether it’s a call from the divine center or merely a fluke of psychology and biochemistry, this person’s psyche is suddenly flooded with archetypal imagery. For someone with only a casual interest in religion and the paranormal (as is usually the case in the Coil Orbit), these events will usually cloak themselves in whatever quasi-mythological symbols the person is acquainted with: bits of movies, scraps of religion and elements from their personal history.
More than likely, this person will be diagnosed with schizophrenia or a similar mental illness, and may receive medication and hospitalization in the hopes of returning them to a “normal state.” While this may be beneficial for some, certain others will be transformed by these events and enter another orbit, closer to the center. Usually but not always, these people enter the Wheel Orbit. They embark on an intense period of research into the symbols, myths and internal processes which they encountered in the Vortex. This research provides them with a context and containers to understand themselves and their ineffable experience. It allows them to integrate the creative energy unleashed by the Vortex, and build it into an increasingly richer experience of life. That is, until the next Vortex strikes!
Storm-Chasing
In many ways, the experience of the Vortex is identical to the experience of the Crown Orbit, hence the popularity of the “Prophet of Madman?” drama which plays out in people who mistake one for the other. In part 1 of this series, we described the experience of the Crown Orbit as:
You live your life according to intuition, guidance of the heart, direct experience, personal knowledge, and have a profound ability to communicate effectively and compassionately with others. You are able to move beyond beliefs, ideas, names, concepts, and meanings to the true inner nature of things as they are.
The Crown Orbit could be described as the fulfillment of moving inwards toward the divine center. The Vortex, on the other hand, I would describe as the divine center exploding outwards towards us. As in the diagram above, the orbits are inverted and shards of the divine source penetrate through to other levels. For this reason, many people actively seek out Vortex events - they “chase the storm,” so to speak.
During a Vortex, the divine center shifts to wherever you are standing. As mystical tradition informs us, God (or Truth, the Self, etc) is a circle whose center is everywhere and whose circumference (outer edge) is nowhere. The question ultimately, then, is not are you experiencing the divine (because you always are), but are you ready to experience the pure unmediated divine, stripped of all it’s comforting forms? Greek and other mythologies are littered with tales of mortals who accidentally or intentionally witness the true form of a God or Goddess. Usually they are literally evaporated by the experience. Similarly, there is a Jewish tradition that says it wasn’t God who gave Moses the Ten Commandments on Mt. Sinai, but an intercessor named Metatron, the Angel of the Presence. Presumably, Yahweh himself in all his radiance would have blown even the mighty Moses away.
Courting Vortex experiences thus may be a shorter route to the divine center, but it is tremendously more dangerous. Just like the mythical Black Lodge of Twin Peaks, if you confront the Vortex with less than perfect courage (and more than your share of hubris), it may annhilate your soul. Luckily, the Vortex is one of those things that when you are foolish enough to go chasing after it, tends to slip away from you, like the horizon.
The key difference between the Vortex and the Crown Orbit typically is one of integration and permanence. The Vortex experience is typically a storm which flares up and then passes, and leaves everything changed (or destroyed) in its wake. The Crown Orbit on the other hand is a state of rest, the king seated on his thrown, surveying his land, ruling with wisdom and justice. Those in the Crown Orbit experience the divine center after having gone through and completely mastered all the challenges and integrated the lessons of the more distant orbits. Those who were transfigured by the Vortex, however, still wrestle with these things. But that’s not to say that Vortex experiences are somehow not as “good;” their prime function may very well be to prepare us to stand in the divine center, to give us a taste of things to come and a glimpse of the rewards available to us at the finish line.
All that said, the primary thing to take away from all this is simply that life, god and truth completely transcend the categories and names that we create to hold them. Even if we create really beautiful and useful containers (which I hope to have done here), there comes a point when we must put them down and accept life in all its awesome complexity and absurd paradox. Whether we cultivate these moments of unmediated experience of the divine center or they are thrust upon us unwillingly, the key thing is what we do when they happen to us. Are we reduced to a whimpering puddle of drool, or can we come back from the brink to share our experiences and enrich one another’s lives? That is the great challenge of the spiritual life, and which Vortex events catalyze in our lives.
[Thanks to Jeremy Puma for help developing the ideas for this article.]
January 14th, 2006 at 4:53 pm
I meant to include this in the body of the article, but didn’t want to distract from the flow I was building. I took the term “Vortex” from an article by Terence McKenna about Philip K. Dick.
http://www.greylodge.org/occultreview/glor_005/understandpkd.htm
McKenna says:
He also quotes PKD himself who wrote of VALIS/ZEBRA:
January 14th, 2006 at 5:41 pm
Oh man, quoting stuff from Mckenna is about as fruitful as posting quotes from Chomsky. Both a couple of grade A charlatans. At least now I’m starting to get a better idea of the type of individual which constitutes their main fanbase. That’s definitely one “whole” that I don’t want to be apart of. Oh and what’s next, quotes from David Icke?
January 14th, 2006 at 5:49 pm
Dakota, please recommend some reading material for me. I am ready to move beyond McKenna.
January 14th, 2006 at 6:13 pm
Thanks tim, ive found alot of things through youre site that have really helped me and will be reading more from these people.
.thanks.
January 14th, 2006 at 6:36 pm
You have done a nice job, too. I would like to make a comment or caveat from a Traditionalist-y perspective, that of course anyone is free to take however they like. Any errors I make here are my own, I am, of course, way in over my head here.
“New” models are, in general, not to be trusted. There is a vivifying presence within the so-called Traditional symbols, that will not be found in new-age or Theosophical Society-style syncretism, except insofar as we break down these new symbols into the more primeval symbols. The light shines through the Vortex event (as you have called it) and is the “resonance” within us when we contemplate the symbolic order.
The interplay and conflict between primeval symbols is not merely similar to the descent of Forms, but IS the descent of Forms. This is difficult to understand.
When we interpret symbols in their esoteric aspect, we are following the trail they have left back to the Source. We are excavating our own minds. The differentiated Forms are none other than these symbols in variegated aspects and relations.
Anything you may consider may be decoded. If it is helpful to think that the physical world operates according to certain principles, go ahead and think that, but it seems to me that whatsoever may be considered is necessarily nothing but a concept composed of or by more universal concepts. Traditional symbol systems are not merely “time tested”, they are the very roots of ALL human culture. There is nothing you cannot trace back to the Primeval Event (i.e. the Vortex event.)
To the extent that Tim’s image reminds us of the Vortex, this is the exact extent to which it provides a vessel for the eternal Symbols or Divine Names.
It is interesting that you chose 8 points, Tim. Was that an aesthetic choice or…?
(don’t usually like to get this heavy, sorry, I’m sure I’ve screwed up some terminology.)
January 14th, 2006 at 6:58 pm
If you did srew up its the best screwed up terminology ive heard, like drinking straight from the fountain…..
January 14th, 2006 at 7:41 pm
Nope, it just “seemed” right.
I don’t think you were making this point, but just to clarify, I’m not saying this is a better model or that people should use it. I’m just trying to create a map that corresponds to my own experiences and those of other people who I’ve interacted with. Hopefully people who come to it afresh will use it as a gateway to more Traditional symbols and models.
January 14th, 2006 at 9:05 pm
No, Dakota says individual until he can find someone in here with more intelligence than him. Beyond that it’s quickly becoming some kind of blackhole for Boucher to lure more of his occult followers into a deeper darker abyss. Pretty much a vortex of nothingness to drag down as many as he can with him. That’s when the occult turns into “a cult.”
January 14th, 2006 at 9:15 pm
So help a brother out, dakota. Which direction should a young seeker head?
January 14th, 2006 at 9:26 pm
Which direction should a young seeker head?
I’ll vote for in, but only after you’ve been out. Otherwise, I find it’s best to consider that anyone could have something to teach you (not that everyone will) but there really isn’t anyone to follow.
… a blackhole for Boucher to lure more of his occult followers into a deeper darker abyss. Pretty much a vortex of nothingness
Blackholes, the abyss and nothingness are pretty much some of my favorite things. Hot dog! Where do we jump?
January 14th, 2006 at 9:41 pm
It all makes sense now? hes a reptillian man.
Mmmmm Yes Well it does appear to look that way.
January 14th, 2006 at 9:49 pm
p.s. Manning, youre site its very insightfull+ a good aid to people like me. thanks
January 14th, 2006 at 10:08 pm
In the movie “A Beautiful Mind,” about the American mathematician John Nash, you remember that throughout the beginning of that movie Nash was desperately searching for that “original idea.” And the movie led us through a series of bizarre twists and turns, following the eccentric and misunderstood genius of Nash who seemingly devised several original ideas, but also nearly lost his mind in the process. Some of these of course were numerous brilliant Math Theorems, his self named Equilibrium, and breakthroughs in evolutionary biology. My point is this Tim Boucher has never really had an original idea, and what he lacks in true intellect he tries to make up for in a multitude of empty repetitive jargon, that never really goes anywhere. And now with this Vortex: Spiritual Warp thing, it’s pretty obvious that he is trying to hypnotize and lure some of you lesser minds into the trappings of his failed intellect. Mastur P, I hate to have to spoonfeed things to people, especially you because I am guessing you are a grown up adult? I don’t know what to say, if you want to sell out your own God given creative fires for this Spiritual warp nonsense, then go ahead. To me, that would be almost like chopping off your head. For many in here it seems that it is too late, they have already sold out to this ridiculous false “wholeness” concept. A notion that seems to be bought more by the feeble minds, and definitely less by true inspired intellects.
January 14th, 2006 at 10:20 pm
Dakota, I empathize with your struggle, though I may not always understand or appreciate your tactics myself. It really seems as though you find something about what I’ve said here to be very threatening. Would you care to elaborate on why that is?
January 14th, 2006 at 10:52 pm
I don’t like Cult leaders, who use hypnosis and seduction. I’m sorry but that’s just my individual opinion.
January 14th, 2006 at 11:01 pm
What parts of my work do you find hynoptic and seductive? Is it your opinion that I’m forming a cult? If so, what clues or signals are you basing that on?
January 14th, 2006 at 11:13 pm
Neither do i and if i thought that was the case i wouldnt be here but its not the case, i thought you may have had a genuine reason for youre manorism but thats just so unrelated to anything grounded in reality that im going to bed, must be the hypnotism!
January 15th, 2006 at 12:56 am
Things to do today…
1. Find out why I’m so dang sleepy all the time.
2. Drop kitty at vet’s.
3. Pick-up caselot of grape kool-aid (aspartame FREE!)
4. Nap.
I don’t like Cult leaders, who use hypnosis and seduction.
Things to do today…
1. Find out why I’m so dang sleepy all the time.2. Drop kitty at vet’s.
3. Pick-up caselot of grape kool-aid (aspartame FREE!)
4. Nap.
p.s. Manning, youre site its very insightfull+ a good aid to people like me.
I’m glad you’re enjoying it, nemesis.
January 15th, 2006 at 12:58 am
I guess the strike out html feature doesn’t work. Item 1 on the second list was supposed to appear crossed out. *sigh* It’s just not funny when you have to explain it.
January 15th, 2006 at 1:15 am
I’ll add the strikethrough for you… you have to use the “del” tag…
January 15th, 2006 at 1:47 am
Ha! That’s better. Thanks Tim. Ooops! I mean, Your Lordship.
Meantime, I enjoyed the McKenna quote (I haven’t read any of his work as yet) as well as the two models you developed. I see crossover there between some of the areas I’ve been reading, although I still enjoy Graves model as a means of interpreting where people “come out” of such experiences. For example, some seem to swing firmly from the authoriatarian red/blue meme — perhaps this explains the Jim Jones types; others operate from orange, green, yellow, etc. Perhaps the outcome depends on where you entered from. Wilber offers a more extensive model with his integrative theory, but he also seems to hold firmly to a bias of Jungian thought.
Meanwhile, I haven’t quite decided for myself why such events happen. Some of the sources I’ve read suggest they’ve been earned over many lifetimes, others suggest that it’s entirely random. However I would agree that these kind of experiences can be HUGE and very difficult to convey in their entirety to another. I’d also agree that these are events that happen to human beings and with rare exception, we will still be human beings when we emerge from them.
A certain degree of grandiosity seems to go with the territory, particularly when one is still charged with the archetypal energies and fresh from the experience. However, if that characteristic is still present years later I suspect its possible that the events themselves are being used as a form of compensation, or have been pressed into service by a returning ego of the little self. I’ve run into my fair share of “gurus” since then and generally felt more comfortable after I’d run in the opposite direction for a while.
January 15th, 2006 at 3:45 am
Oh, and just a suggestion that would perhaps fit somewhere into your storm chasing category. Depending on how widely you share your model (no doubt you’ll continue to tweak it) it might be worth mentioning some of the dangers that are associated with spiritual exploration…
January 15th, 2006 at 3:57 am
Duh… Starting a cult can be pretty dangerous too. Just remember, no two snowflakes are alike. A lot of us are a lot like snowflakes, don’t let this chasing after a “storm” and spiritual warp zones stunt your growth and melt your individuality. The world is constantly changing and like snowflakes we are constantly growing and blossoming into more complex crystalline structures. That is the beauty of individuality. It’s not about chasing after imaginary rainbows, the magic will come given the natural course of events in life and I believe with faith.
January 15th, 2006 at 5:54 am
Duh… Starting a cult can be pretty dangerous too.
I would imagine ignorance and lack of experience could be your worst enemy. I’ve never started a cult before so I googled it and fortunately, there are plenty of people out there who are willing to share their wisdom with the rest of us: How to start your own cult.
A lot of us are a lot like snowflakes, don’t let this chasing after a “storm” and spiritual warp zones stunt your growth and melt your individuality.
Okay.
January 15th, 2006 at 10:16 am
Snowflakes all share the same basic structure due to the shape of the H2O molecule. Pretty, six-sided frozen crystalline shapes.
I’m not a snowflake. I’m a fuckin’ tree frog.
January 15th, 2006 at 10:32 am
January 15th, 2006 at 11:30 am
Dakota got pretty flowery there for a moment what with all the snowflakes and rainbows. Now he is trying to save us all from “Boucher’s Cult”? How noble.
I and I say Dakota Babylon J.R., seen?
Anyway, seems the only time I post anymore is to spar with toad’s.
What a life.
January 15th, 2006 at 11:59 am
hey, don’t join tim’s cult, join my cult!
See it says right in the bible:
No just kidding
On the on hand I see what dakota means, the idea of the “spiritual vortex” seems a bit.. well, I dunno, but these are extant phenomena and there is something suspicious about slapping yer own label on something that already exists - so many charaltans do that and then TM their new labels
OTOH, there isn’t anything suspicious about creating a mental model of something in an attempt to understand it, Tim has clearly indicated that his model is provisional and the names are somewhat arbitrary, is it his fault they sound “seductive”? That might just be the marketer in him
Point being, Tim - and anyone else who cares to read his blog - is clearly interested in trying to understand spirituality and how peopel grow into it, having been exposed to numerous models Tim now wants to refashion the one he already had in his head into something that incorporates the others he’s been exposed to, strikes me as a rather ambitious and generous intellectual project
OTOH, people will project their own deisres onto these sorts of things and treat people as cultic figures even if thats not the intent of the author, I’m sure tim’s aware of that and I suspect that’s why he’s treating this as something that is (to some extent) a group effort
SO, not really worried about it.
January 15th, 2006 at 12:56 pm
Rev, I am intrigued by your theories and wish to subscribe to your newsletter…
January 15th, 2006 at 1:25 pm
Which reminds me that the only cult I think could ever claim my mind is that one created by the Simpsons writers…sorry I am way off the intended topic.
January 15th, 2006 at 1:34 pm
Cults require two primary elements in order to be cult-like: 1, a leader and 2, some followers. Without followers, no man/woman is a cult leader — they’re only a cult leader wannabe. In the few minutes I spent researching the subject last night I was most struck by this article — it’s featured in a business magazine and showcases the growth of some company dedicated to capitalizing on the vulnerability of teens who want to feel they belong in some unique and valuable way. Yet another article highlights healthy and desirable traits to be found in spiritual groups/communities/settings.
I don’t seem to be seeing the same degree of threat in Tim’s model as dakota does, nonetheless, an occasional jab in the ribs and a reminder to “check yourself” never hurts. Adults can have pockets of vulnerability as well and sometimes — as you note — cults are developed not so much by the leaders as the followers who have projected their own desires and needs onto another. It’s often tempting to believe that someone else can do our work for us, particularly if it’s painful. It’s equally tempting to believe that “we’ve arrived” and there’s no more work to be done. Tim seems to have addressed this aspect in his “Halo Orbit”.
rev max: OTOH, there isn’t anything suspicious about creating a mental model of something in an attempt to understand it
I think what I appreciate about Tim’s model is it isn’t so much a map as it is a description of the process of moving through the landscape of the map. The actual map itself has changed little in the time since people began mapping the territory.
January 15th, 2006 at 1:37 pm
Buddy, I got a million of’em! But no newsletter yet, LOL.
January 15th, 2006 at 1:46 pm
Dakota:
Perfect! So you do understand me after all! What a relief! That’s exactly what I’ve been trying to say. I think you and I have a lot more in common than either of us would admit based on our past interactions here!
Manning:
That was a great and very useful quote, Manning. You raise a very good point. How much should you encourage people to “go for it,” so to speak. I was trying to be rather plain about expressing the dangers of such things, but how explicit should we really be? People who are really hell-bent on doing it, or who have these experiences thrust on them are going to move forward no matter what. And people who would be scared off by (probably valid) warnings may be those who need this exploration the most. What do you think is the best middle ground?
Rev Max:
Yes, it’s entirely provisional, based on my own experiences and those of people around me. Does anybody else need to use it or follow it? That’s your decision, not mine. I personally find it useful, although I respect if others do not. The whole reason I’m building it is because I’ve personally found other models to be lacking.
I wish we didn’t even need models at all and I’ve spent a lot of time railing against them. But I’ve come to see their usefulness - precisely as something to try out, compare to your own experience and ideas, challenge, debate and disagree with.
Am I marketing it or trying to make it seductive? I don’t know. I’m just trying to be an effective craftsman. Do I think this could make a great book? Absolutely! For me, right now, the most useful experience I’m getting out of this is seeing how easy it is to slip into a model and imagine it as being totally real - even though I consciously invented it. It’s very much a thought experiment for me, and I’m very pleased with what I’ve learned from it so far.
January 15th, 2006 at 1:52 pm
That’s a great summary, thanks! I wonder how I can shift the focus more to this. Any thoughts?
January 15th, 2006 at 2:09 pm
I should think that the one thing ive gleamed from this blog so far is the individualism of the people who post, i may be wrong but i think that its because of there unwillingness
to be led in the first place that brings them here. Its quite patrionising to suggest that the people here are being led or hypnotised because if that was the case theyd already have been zombified by the more otrthadox approach. I will never meet tim so my gratitude to him and others on this site is based on the diversity and depth of the topics covered and there is no instruction or set direction. The diagram is an extrapolation of commonalities for people to discuss and people know that. Saying that i was all ready to cross the barricades with our new god Rev Max untill i realised he was kidding, why do you forsake us oh lord.
January 15th, 2006 at 2:17 pm
sorry tim, hadnt read youre post, carry on.
January 15th, 2006 at 2:46 pm
Wait wait wait, don’t go yet… what kind of money are we talking about here? Also, do you have any sisters?
January 15th, 2006 at 2:56 pm
Being new to all this ive never seen models and the like but can see there purpose(for me), i can admit that since the intense experiences ive had ive tried to cling on to this inner symbolic reality because its safe. Deep inside i know that i must extend these experiences into the world and broaden my horizons but i often think we follow patterns that are familiar to us for fear of unknown territory. Looking at tims model didnt instruct me in any way but what it did was externalise inner realisations that ive been trying to ignore but are very necessary for me, to me a good model should be a tool for people to bring to the surface whats already within, if that makes any sense.
January 15th, 2006 at 2:57 pm
Tim: How much should you encourage people to “go for it,” so to speak. I was trying to be rather plain about expressing the dangers of such things, but how explicit should we really be? People who are really hell-bent on doing it, or who have these experiences thrust on them are going to move forward no matter what. And people who would be scared off by (probably valid) warnings may be those who need this exploration the most. What do you think is the best middle ground?
Good question. I’m not sure I have any absolute answers, only a few observations.
There seems to be, roughly, three routes that can bring an individual to a “vortex” experience. Probably the most common is the attempt to actively cultivate such experiences by following some degree of dedicated spiritual path or practice: meditation, prayer, contemplation, vision-questing, yoga, etc. A second route is to actively cultivate such experiences through the use of psychedelics or ethnogens. The third route is — it just happens. That’s not to say that the individual doesn’t play a role in that happening, but many of the circumstances that thrust him/her into that space are largely beyond their personal control.
My own experience falls into the third category. In the time since then, I’ve had countless exchanges, like this, with others. One that had a tremendous impact on me occurred with a young man who was clearly undergoing an experience that was similar to my own. In his case, he even encountered three women over a short period of time, respectively named Eve, Helen, and Mary. [Reference: The Anima & Animus] That individual was active in a community dedicated to an exploration of shamanism. He had been experimenting a bit with ethnogens and kundalini yoga but an element of “fatedness” also seemed to play a role. He didn’t make it through his experience but his death was the catalyst that prompted me to begin speaking more openly of my own.
Probably what’s most helpful is simply to be aware that such dangers exist, and secondly, to have a general idea of what they look like. Many individuals go into the territory with the expectation that it’s going to be pretty in there, and it is — there’s some beautiful, profound spaces in there — but it’s not all pretty. To that end, it’s probably most helpful to follow your mom’s advice and always bring a buddy. Preferably a buddy who knows the dangers exist, knows what they look like, and can offer a hand if you’re starting to sink as opposed to making elegant strokes or dogpaddling madly yet adequately.
Also, if you have the ability to make the choice, make it wisely. If you want to follow a specific path, research it. If you want to enter into a Master/Disciple relationship, check out the master and his/her disciples. If you want to work with ethnogens don’t go into the experience blindly. There are risks in doing nothing, there are risks in doing something. Do your best to be aware of the risks, not only for yourself but also for the benefit of others.
I still carry the memory of that young man with me, along with the anguish of his family and friends. I still feel an element of responsibility for his suicide if only because I was there and I had some insight into the territory he was heading into. I’m never going to know if speaking up earlier would have made a difference and I’ve also allowed that I was still in an active stage of my own healing and not very capable of speaking at that time. I speak up now though.
Ego inflation/deflation is a risk. Getting stuck or lost is a risk. The potential for losing your friends, your career, your sanity, your children, your marriage is a risk. Losing your life is a risk. Whether or not those are risks that an individual is willing to pay or will determine were worth it is very much a personal matter. Bottom line: If you’re going to play with fire, expect to get burned. It may be best to expose yourself through small singes as opposed to tying yourself to the stake and dousing yourself in gasoline. Meantime, if by chance you should happen to find yourself in the flames be assured that when you really can’t stand the pain anymore, your mind will snap and you’ll get to go to your happy place.
Umm. Was that sobering enough?
January 15th, 2006 at 3:03 pm
I have three sisters and ill even chuck in the fiance but i was meaning over the barricades in a anarchistic, faith means no death kind of a way.
January 15th, 2006 at 3:14 pm
Manning, that was a really excellent piece of writing and I appreciate your sharing it.
Nemesis:
That is an absolutely awesome insight as well. I’m continually blown away by the excellent interactions that we have here!
January 15th, 2006 at 3:53 pm
I was thinking about this last night and wanted to absolutely advise against anyone trying to tear themselves apart to be born again(so to speak). If it happens so be it but there is nothing in concious reality to prepare you, especially if you have no concept or understanding of whats going on, it truly is hell.
For what its worth manning i had 5 years of the same things as you but strangely ive never had therapy or spoke to people about things, ive somehow got where i am today on my own so reading of someone else who has been through something similar really did make a difference to me. Frienship and love and even charity contain some sort of personal grattification but to help someone you will never know and want nothing in return is to me at least a precious thing, im glad you spoke up.
January 15th, 2006 at 3:59 pm
fucked up block quotes if you hadnt noticed,sorry.
January 15th, 2006 at 4:21 pm
*I fixed the blockquotes for you
January 15th, 2006 at 4:42 pm
nemesis: For what its worth manning i had 5 years of the same things as you but strangely ive never had therapy or spoke to people about things, ive somehow got where i am today on my own so reading of someone else who has been through something similar really did make a difference to me. Frienship and love and even charity contain some sort of personal grattification but to help someone you will never know and want nothing in return…
Ahhh, but I do want something in return. I want to not have the pain of knowing that I said nothing when saying something might have made a difference — personal gratification is still very much involved.
Nonetheless, I agree that it’s helpful to hear from and speak with others who have been through similar experiences. No doubt, this was part of the success John Weir Perry had with his Diabasis project — most people freak out when confronted with an individual in such a state, but having just one person around who can at least recognize your humaness in all that chaos can make an incredible difference.
Having not been on any formal spiritual path, I found it very isolating to have gone through an experience that — as far as I knew — no human being had ever gone through. Very quickly however, I began to find others who had and right away, this began to ground and normalize the experience.
I was also exceptionally blessed with the people I had around me at that time, one of whom went — synchronistically enough — by the name of Kali; which is how a Hindu Goddess ended up in that space with me. When it became too painful to see the things I didn’t want to see, Kali gave me her eyes so I could bear to look. I like to think that she still sneaks them into me when I’m not looking.
January 15th, 2006 at 4:43 pm
I have a friend who was actively trying to “break through” by studying shamanic journeying, also heavy use of entheogens.
Before long she began hearing voices, seeing lights over people’s shoulders, insomnia, wandering around on the streets in the rain at 4am with tinfoil braided into her hair, etc.
Long story short, she was actually getting ready to commitherself (as in, committed to a psychiatric clinic for observation). I loaned her this book by Gopi Krishna called Serpent Fire, she rea dit and decide that what she was going through was some kind of “vortex” experience (to use Tim’s terminology) and that she simply needed to ratchet things down a bit and sit with her new “abilities” until she could digest and get a handle on them.
SO that’s what she did. And she turned out fine (after losing her apartment, getting in a car crash, losing her liscence, breaking up with her b-friend, getting fired form her job, etc) - well those things all caused her a lot of stress but after that all settled down, and about a year or so later, she really did turn out fine.
WHy do I mention this? You r warning is interetsing and timely. I often wonder why I am not homeless, broke incoherent myself and I think its just plain luck.
ANywho I am reminded of the comments of a woman who posted here a while ago about the phenomenon of the spiritual emergance or spiritual crisis, here:
http://www.timboucher.com/journal/2005...e-modern-pagans-secretly-monotheists/
Point being i guess that a full-blown spiritual emergence is a REAL phenomena that is no joke, this article explain it well too:
Spiritual Emergence or Psychosis?
So what to do? I would never discourage anyone from trying to bring it (kundalini, shamanic crisis, possession) on but maybe I wouldn’t encourage them either. It is (or can be) extremely dangerous. Not just in terms of emotional upset but actually life-threatening.
January 15th, 2006 at 5:09 pm
granted, i hope you mean spiritual grattification though…………
I wasnt so fortunate because i was homeless at 18 and had moved around so much so never really understood real friendship, i knew alot of people but in truth i knew no-one and so when the onset came i ended up on the streets again. Everything that lived had a glow around it then so i lived in the forest for a while. I ended up living in probation hostels with very violent,psychological people and just kept moving from hostel to hostel.
To go through such things in such uncompromising surroundings would be difficult normally but in that state, well im sure you can imagine. This site is my first attempt to look into things in a concious manner and its a very liberating experience and as most things since then it was meant to be for me at this time in my life.
January 15th, 2006 at 6:04 pm
ANywho I am reminded of the comments of a woman who posted here a while ago about the phenomenon of the spiritual emergance or spiritual crisis
Ooops. That was me. TM = T. Manning. I was feeling a tad pissy that day/night. Tim and I didn’t seem to have a very good understanding of the other at the time, but I think we worked it out already. Anyway, the point is that — yes, these kind of experiences can be very overwhelming and they can have a broad impact. Interpreting and digesting them can come after the fact, but the most important thing is that people first actually get through them.
So what to do? I would never discourage anyone from trying to bring it (kundalini, shamanic crisis, possession) on but maybe I wouldn’t encourage them either.
From what I’ve read, you can’t “bring on” such experiences. I have mixed feelings about that — on the one hand, those kind of statements often serve to set the “initiate” apart from others as though they’re somehow specially marked or chosen. I can smell a bit of ego inflation in there. On the other, it seems to be widely accepted that doing A, B, and C can often produce the result of D. Probably the area that individuals have the most control over is using ethnogens. It seems to me that’s an area that should be approached with double the awareness as a result. I have zero experience in that matter, so I’m certainly not one to talk to about it. But there are others out there who knowledgeable in the area.
i hope you mean spiritual grattification though…………
Good point and good catch.
To go through such things in such uncompromising surroundings would be difficult normally but in that state, well im sure you can imagine.
I’m fortunate to have to do just that — imagine. Yet, I know your own experience is not a rarity. As Rev Max notes, luck plays a role. There’s many a time since then that I’ve caught myself saying, “There but for the grace…”.
This site is my first attempt to look into things in a concious manner and its a very liberating experience …
It’s amazing what comes out of the woodwork when a topic is broached openly, isn’t it?
…and as most things since then it was meant to be for me at this time in my life.
Some things resonate and some don’t. Once I figured out the difference I began to follow the path of the resonance. It’s different for everyone, but when one path crosses another, you can work up a good ‘Zing!’.
January 15th, 2006 at 6:54 pm
It may be me but i have found that being open in my personel life is a good way of self management but theres not many people in my circles who would react so openly to the things i say so yes, externalising things without judgement takes them from personal to collective and it is nice, like some of the poetry ive read lately.
January 15th, 2006 at 7:36 pm
nemesis: …and it is nice, like some of the poetry ive read lately.
Or some of the music. If you listen, you can hear her…
If I told you a secret
You won’t tell a soul
Will you hold it and keep it alive
Cause it’s burning a hole
And I can’t get to sleep
And I can’t live alone in this lie
So look up
Take it away
Don’t look da-da-da-down
The mountain
If the world isn’t turning
Your heart won’t return
Anyone, anything, anyhow
So take me, don’t leave me
Take me, don’t leave me
Baby, love will come through
It’s just waiting for you
Well we stand at the crossroads
Of highroads and lowroads
And I’ve got a feeling it’s right
If it’s real what I’m feeling
There’s no make-believing
The sound of the wings
of the flight … of a dove
Take it away
Don’t look da-da-da-down
The mountain
If the world isn’t turning
Your heart won’t return
anyone anything anyhow…
So take me don’t leave me
Take me don’t leave me
Baby, love will come through
It’s just waiting for you
So look up
Take it away
Don’t look da-da-da-down
If the world isn’t turning
Your heart won’t return
anyone, anything, anyhow…
So take me, don’t leave me
Take me, don’t leave me
Baby, love will come through
It’s just waiting for you
Love will come through
Love will come through
Love will come through
Travis - 12 Memories
January 15th, 2006 at 7:41 pm
I like travis and more recently james blunt, i wonder if youve ever listened to nick drake?
January 15th, 2006 at 7:56 pm
LOL!!! I like this “nemesis” - great sense of humor.
On a more serious note it sounds like you must have an incredible life story….
January 15th, 2006 at 8:20 pm
Slightly eratic and challenging yes, but i often think these things are relative to the individual and compared to alot of people in africa etc im lucky. I dont think its a matter of where youre going to but where youre coming from.
January 15th, 2006 at 8:30 pm
nemesis: I like travis and more recently james blunt, i wonder if youve ever listened to nick drake?
I haven’t heard blunt or drake, but I’ll add them to my “check them out” list. Meantime, it’s time for me to check out once more. Nice chatting with all of you — readers and participants alike. And best of luck to you nemesis. I’m glad for you that you found this place.
January 15th, 2006 at 8:36 pm
Me to, im at college tomorow but enjoyed todays post, cheers
January 15th, 2006 at 8:38 pm
Oh, and as a quick PS (to nemesis) — check out this guy if you get a chance. You’d likely appreciate the honest poignancy of his humor.
January 16th, 2006 at 12:48 am
Tim, quick question…
When you get a chance, can you explain to me why my post on the fellow traveler is linked to Laura Bush’s plea for torture? I’m not sure if I see the connection but perhaps I’m not seeing something you are. Thanks.
January 16th, 2006 at 2:09 am
Manning, I posted a response on your blog. Sorry for the mix-up!
January 16th, 2006 at 2:23 am
Okay Tim. I got your e-mail response and I see that you’ve removed those other posts — which I was okay with. I’m not in support of torture in any way although Laura Bush is welcome to do as she chooses.
January 17th, 2006 at 2:26 am
I just wanted to add Tim, my apologies for the mix-up too and thanks for clarifying your logic for me. Otherwise, this was a really fun thread to contribute to.
January 17th, 2006 at 9:54 pm
http://people.lulu.com/blogs/view.php?user_id=38353
Posted on Monday 09 of January, 2006 [00:25:05 UTC] - seems somewhat synchronous:
I do understand the argument that getting to enlightenment through an
artificial shortcut, such as psychoactive chemical use, can be seen as
detrimental. Truths arrived at artificially can so easily be lost in the
light of day. Many sidetrips down the path of drug use have resulted in
tragedy. Yet, I cannot condemn this path toward enlightenment. There are
many dangerous paths, many seeming shortcuts, many and diverse ways toward
discovery, enlightenment, spiritual understanding, direct relation with a
higher wisdom. The problem stated here, I believe, is not so much about the
journey or the vehicle as about what some governmental authorities see as
their role in controlling the behavior of the citizenry. The hypocrisy here
is pointed out, I think,in that there are legal, even highly touted drugs
that do a great deal of damage in the name of promoting an accepted paradigm
of health, and there are drugs whose use or possession when discovered can
lead to prison terms. It’s not about whether you take drugs, but whose
drugs you take, who gets the take.
For those on a path to enlightenment, and historically as well as
contemporarily in various cultures entheogens have been and are used
ritually to invoke spiritual visions, it is best to understand the
possible dangers of your methods and address them with care. For those
who are taking in foreign substances of any kinds (and we all do every day),
it would probably be best to tend to an awareness of what you are taking
in and the effects you experience. For those who believe that government
mandates to oversee the populace should be restricted to the vast still
unsolved problems of intentional and criminally negligent harm, let’s see
what we can do to make that a reality.
January 18th, 2006 at 5:01 pm
[…] get there, just like in gnosticism (or at least in their imagined version of gnosticism - vortex experiences typically come uninvited). In fact, we could ma […]