![[tmbchr]™](/journal/popocculture-blog-logo.jpg){kind=logo}
Ten Things I Hate About the Occult
Time for a good old-fashioned top-ten list to break up the late January lull. So, without further ado is my top ten list of things that I hate about the occult (these are in no particular order). Feel free to add in your own items in the comments below:
- Criticism from the “normals” - if you get interested in the occult, chances are your normal friends and Christian family are going to think it’s silly at best, or crazy and dangerous at worst. The thing about this that gets me the most is that these people (especially Christians) are essentially telling you that your need for exploration, questioning and personal experience are bad and wrong - simply because that’s not where they themselves are at. They typically tell you to stop, and “accept Jesus” without answering the needs of those people who desire a more thorough exploration of these subjects.
- Endless Bickering - if you get involved in any kind of community of people studying this stuff, from beginner to advance, established to still developing, you’re likely to see a huge amount of in-fighting, arguing and pointless group politics. I don’t know if there’s any way around these short of sticking your head into a hole in the ground.
- Lack of coherent definition - What the hell is the occult? Nobody really knows. Regular people define it one way, and occultists each have their own definitions which they tend to go to war over regularly. My personal favorite is when occultists accuse other occultists of not being “occult enough.”
- Evil factor - Just how evil and dangerous is the occult really? Are there parts of it which are totally benign, or is the blanket Fundamentalist condemnation of all things occult in place for a good reason? If you experiment with the wrong things, are you really going to invite bad things to happen to you? How can you be sure you’re not crossing those lines?
- Inability to communicate - part of the problem with most areas of the occult is that they touch on or exist fully in territories which are outside of language. They often point towards ineffable experiences and challenge you with the limitations of language and conceptual thinking. No wonder there are so many arguments and a general lack of definition in these areas.
- Super lame aesthetic - For the most part, the visual and aesthetic elements tied into occult, alternative religion and new age stuff are really tremendously cheesy. When browsing around on sites related to the occult, you typically end up with either the blinking neon green text on a black background of stars, with animated ghosts and unicorns roming about, or you get some kind of embarrassing goth-looking design with roses and things dripping blood. And don’t even get me started on occult clothes and jewelry and stuff like that. I wouldn’t ever be caught dead in most of that crap. Oh, and then on another end of the spectrum, there is a sort of pseudo-Eastern/stoner-hippy kind of look. Horrible. Why doesn’t occult stuff look super awesome?
- Teenage Rebellion - I’m really tired of people getting into occult stuff simply for the shock value of it, or to upset their parents. There’s so much more to religion and spirituality than simply upsetting mom and dad with your new pentagram necklace.
- Endless Footnoting - Sometimes it seems like the occult is just one great big wild goose chase. One author refers to another author’s writing, who goes back to somebody else, who goes back to somebody else, and so on. Except take that and multiple it by about a billion. Before you know it, you’re lost in a maze of books and references which may or may not be ultimately meaningless.
- The Real/Fake Debate - Is magic real? Do ghosts, aliens, conspiracies and god really exist or are they projections of our own internal processes? These sorts of existential occult questions used to keep me up at night (and sometimes still do), but there comes a point when you have to move past it all, and start looking at the effects of belief. What changes in your life if you accept God as real? What about if you start practicing spells? How does that change your attitude and approach to the world? The other questions of existence become a moot point after a certain point also when you realize that it’s very possible that ultimate truths simply can’t be expressed (see above).
- My Life - Lastly, what the hell does all this occult stuff have to do with my or your “real” lives? We go to the office, or wherever, spend time with family, friends and loved ones, and how can we reconcile all the weird research and mental questioning to the simple joys and challenges of every-day life? None of the occult books seem to address any of that, any of these basic questions about what’s life for, and how do we live it to it’s fullest?
Hopefully, that ought to be enough to get a discussion started in relation to “occult pet peeves.” I’m sure there are lots of other ones we could fill this list out with. What are you frustrated by? What vexes you? What do you wish you had the answers to?
Articles With Similar Themes:
Read In Sequence:
- Prev: Modern Occult Map
- Next: Total Information Awareness
January 25th, 2006 at 7:40 pm
Lame aesthetic? Youi’re just not paying attention. Want good occult art, look at the Flemish school, Bosch, Yeats, carlos schwabe, Blake, Gauguin, Mozart, and on and on and on…
Occult art did not mean red and black spinning pen tacl;es until teenagers found the internet.
January 25th, 2006 at 7:57 pm
Well done list, I’d say the main reason why I hate the occult is that unfortunately it does work in the right/wrong hands (I mean those who are skilled, not those who fool around). Secondly, it’s very dangerous since brings one in contact with forces far beyond one’s control. Magic is as old as human race and to my mind the reasons behind its languishing popularity are threefold - 1) Desire to explore and understand 2) Curiosity that is intrinsic to human beings 3) Desire to get one’s wishes realized. So, the occult is twofold, some pursue it in search of universal experiences and some with a very purpose to manipulate people and forces around and to bend to one’s wishes. As for the definitions, well, to put it simple - a huge collection of theoretical workings which is a product of various schools of philosphical and theological thought and practical advice on how to get things done. As for the “real lives” - well the whole purpose of some rites is to achieve desrable aim, whatever it might happen to be. Besides, there is always a reality check, if we speak about skilled people - I mean the consequences such as banal success or depression of one’s enemy manifest themselves quite easily and serve as a proof otherwise it’s all just blah, blah, blah. Occult is a certain way to reality management, extremely pragmatical one. The most interesting item in you list is fake/real thing, in terms how real is what one feels&understands inside one’s personal/psychic world. Anybody who has met with authentic practicing occultist will say that it’s an extremely dangerous area, since they’ve underwent certain experiences far from being nice and pleasant.
January 25th, 2006 at 8:33 pm
11- People who call EVERYTHING ‘Satanism’.
January 25th, 2006 at 8:34 pm
And sometimes there’s nothing more to religion and spirituality than upsetting mom and dad with your pentagram. Like the Legion says: “Eat it, grandpa.”
Life may be ultimately meaningless, but it’s not so bad if you’re enjoying yourself, is it?
That frustrates me. That is one of my pet peeves. Just because it is very possible that they cannot be expressed does not mean that they cannot be expressed.
Can you safely explore the effects of belief while still questioning the core foundations of those beliefs? I would say yes, and would further suggest that failure to do so lends itself to stagnation and catastrophe.
I will concede that going in circles probably may be a waste if it doesn’t do anything, but going in circles also allows one to reflect on the material differently with each pass.
Unless you’re dead when you’re doing your reading and thinking, I don’t know how you can separate it from your life. Contemplation is one of the many simple joys and challenges of my every-day life, and I don’t see how or why I would unwind it from the rest. Perhaps I am just strange.
I don’t think that the place of an occult book is to tell you how to reconcile your study with your life, or to even address that point, any moreso than a biology textbook should or a study on Shakespeare should. You reconcile it with yourself, and are now pursuing it because that is what you want to do.
Unless you’re reading self-help books.
January 25th, 2006 at 9:04 pm
Living life to its fullest and most meanigful. That’s what it’s all really about, isn’t it? Living as best as I possibly could is what led me to Paganism and the “occult” in the first place. I am not sure exactly how, but here I am. That there is no real guidance, I don’t know.
It’s kind of like, in the occult, there is no road map on how to live life, but there are lots of directions on how build a car and soup it up. Once you build it, you still have to figure out where to drive it, but at least it’s faster than walking. I just made that up. I don’t know if it makes sense yet.
January 25th, 2006 at 9:28 pm
I dont believe ancient tribes or early man studied the occult but it was a reality in the most subjective primal definate sense. Our reality is a singular subjective experience that manifests itself by external markers weaving together the matrix of concious reality and the more information this concious reality holds the further away from the source we become. It can have the effect as jung said of a beautified immagination where art,litterature,poetry and all religious text create a secret smile that ties us to immortality. Everyone dreams in metaphor and symbol be them any race or any background and intellect or physical ability. Its also connected to powerfull primal connections that stem from chaos itself and the polarity of order. I cant stand labels or the hijacking of something that by its vieled existence is a flower of hope untill we crush it by wanting to label,understand,control or manipulate it. I love the speculation and journey because if the wisest,smartest men and women in history never quite owned it then how human of me to presume i might. Sorry about that, belief in belief is a powerfull thing i think but feeling in myself that something just is makes everything else a trip but what do i know, very little i should immagine.
January 25th, 2006 at 9:31 pm
Maybe the best occultists don’t even know they’re occultists. There’s a lot of amazing design going on these days; a graphic artist who can create “something” out of “nothing” is doing magic (and likely making good money, to boot).
Part of occult practice is learning to understand and manipulate symbols. I’m a terrible visual artist; if I were better at bringing things from my imagination down into reality I probably wouldn’t need the occult. Maybe that’s true for a lot of occultists. (Fell being a notable exception, of course).
I’ve spent a shocking amount of money on books since getting into all this. But a lot of the stuff *does* have content.
That’s a feature, not a bug.
January 25th, 2006 at 9:48 pm
One thing that vexed me at first is how Gnosticism converges with the occult, and not knowing whether to label certain occultists “good” or “evil.” Having read a bit more, and seeing the sense of humor behind a lot of occult writing, I’m less inclined to worry about it.
I also have trouble balancing suspension-of-disbelief with skepticism. On the one hand, you’re supposed to be detached and question everything, but on the other, I want this stuff to “work” (although I haven’t put forth too much effort in that direction because if it does start working, it’ll probably scare my pants right off. I’ve already got coincidences following me around….)
January 25th, 2006 at 10:03 pm
Please dont get me wrong i know theres alot of good content in books and i probably undersell my own reading on purpose but people who can create art are magicians and alchemists to me because i get a subjective high through it that brings me back to earth and for me thats a positive thing.
January 25th, 2006 at 10:39 pm
Personally, i believe that they did study the occult. Though I would also label the occult to be “the unknown” or “secret knowledge/wisdom”. Most cultures, no matter how old, looked into the dark, peered through the keyhole, and wondered, “what’s out (or in) there?”
That said, my biggest pet peeve with the occult, is the lack of understanding, both within and without. People who are on the outside are too afraid of things they know not about, and those within tend to me too consumed by their own maps of the unexplored that they don’t really consider the fact that there could be more to the unknown than their own map (or they could just be wrong).
January 26th, 2006 at 1:20 am
Kamma po po
January 26th, 2006 at 1:44 am
Pan, I think you’re confusing “occult” and “magic.” They’re not synonymous- not all magicians are occultists, and vice-versa.
January 26th, 2006 at 4:31 am
There is certanly a difference between the magic&occult, still all the same both occultist&magicans seek contact with the invisible powers and aim to influnce the situations and people. So, it’s all about power. As for the debate on the whole, I’d say it’s missing a crucial piont - either one becomes involved with occult practices to achieve personal aims or not. After all there are many wonderful, centuries old and proven ways of spiritual development (Toasism, Buddhism, etc.). Even Christianity is an ultimately mystical religion (if one knows where to look at), so why bother and get through the back doors while so many front doors are wide open? I guess that all knowledge gained by hard work and effort is yours for ever, while the knowledge gained through the “back door” is borrowed and won’t last. Well, I believe this site perfectly fits its name - popular enerttanment for the bored.
January 26th, 2006 at 8:13 am
I had in mind when writing this the ancient aboriginal art in australia, when settlers arrived there they claimed the land had no ownership and so it was for many years. The aboriginal people had offered forward pictorial art as proof of ownership wich was dismissed by the settlers. It turns out that all the seemingly meaningless art was documented by the aboriginal people on there transition from what they call the dream world. The symbols are of fire and snakes etc but they say there early ancestors lived in the dream world and this present world (conciousness) was seeded from that world. The art turns out to be the first kind of land claim document and is being fought in the courts. When i say study what i meant was the occult in any form is not a pet in a cage to be studied, poked and proded, to me its a living metaphorical and allegorical language that needs to be subjectively embraced. I personaly think that ancient conciousness was quite different and spirituality was never stronger than then
but its just an idea that seems to fit for me, could be wrong.
January 26th, 2006 at 9:48 am
, probably wont work but heres a link to aboriginal dreamtime.
January 26th, 2006 at 12:39 pm
Here ya go, nemesis.
Also: Melodies from the beyond
January 26th, 2006 at 2:05 pm
1. talking to the uninitiaed is like speaking spanish in china, you dont get very far.
2. occult communities are little different compared to group dynamics of any primate species. read prometheus unbound by RAW.
3.somewhat related to 1 & 2.
4. only important to christians and buddhists. (sorry buddha! jesus: save me from your followers!)
5. indeed. for me personally, platonic philosophy sums all answers to these arguments pretty well.
6. agreed. occultists are not by definition artists or masters of anything other some interesting ways at look at the world.
7-9 no comment.
10. i like the Book of the Law answer to this: Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law. Love is the law, love under will. that pretty much covers any question wrt life and how to live it.
11. besides, we all just do what master lucifer tells us to
January 26th, 2006 at 2:15 pm
I’m sorry to hear that you’re bored, Pam. But I am pleased to hear that you’re entertained!
January 26th, 2006 at 2:16 pm
Does it really though? I don’t find much solace in that.
January 26th, 2006 at 2:55 pm
Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law.
I dunno if thats really it. My only attitude is that if life isn’t joyous, you’re doing something wrong. For me, thats all the affirmation I need.
Love is the law, love under will.
January 26th, 2006 at 4:11 pm
Pam, I stil think you’re missing the point. An occultist does not neccessarily seek to influence anyone- that’s a function of magick (but not all magick).
Most occultism is theurgic and has absolutely nothing to do with influence or power, and in most cases, is about uncovering the nature of reality- truth, which is occluded, hence, occult, the search for what is hidden. The occult is vilified because it seeks to bypass dogma and institutionalized belief.
(and funny you should mention Taoism, a venerable occult institution…and Buddhism has many respected occult traditions)
January 26th, 2006 at 5:05 pm
Thanks for link and that was what i was trying to convey,cheers
January 26th, 2006 at 6:08 pm
Well, I still maintain that occult has nothing, absolutely nothing to do with the truth, on the contrary it’s a way to lure people into slippery path of misconceptions and vieling the reality. Since the reality is much scary than people normally think it is. There’s an esoteric part to any world religion or tradition. The occult does not seek truth, it’s a system of “reality management” and quite often at the expense of the others, that’s what it is. Have you ever met a “real occult practitioneer”? All chances are that if you do he or she is likley to tap into your inner enrgy and use it to unlock yet one more misleading “mystery”. Occultists are sort of possessed with the idea of true “enlightenment”, well, it’s basically more authoritarian model than any religion and they do not mind harm done for the sake of abstract aim, which seems quite real to them. The world already knows the biggest experiment in this field - the communism. As for the bypassing the dogma - well, everyone should have a set of principles, it might be called dogma, otherwise one becomes a plaything for the powers beyond one’s remit. Well, in fact, it’s not my aim to dissuade you from your infatuation with the “truth” and the occult. Unfortunately people
get seduced by promise of truth, since it gives a good boost to thier egoes.
January 26th, 2006 at 6:39 pm
So far, I haven’t seen better evidence of that than your comments above, Pam. You seem to have just as firm a belief in the truth of your own viewpoints as anyone here - perhaps even more.
Communism is occult? Occultists are out to suck up your inner energy? Enlightenment is an authoritarian notion? While I may not fully agree with or understand your points, I’m interested in what you have to share, and why you feel the way you do. If you’d like to elaborate any of the above points, I would enjoy discussing it with you.
January 26th, 2006 at 6:41 pm
NICK DRAKE………FROM THE MORNING
A day once dawned, and it was beautiful
A day once dawned from the ground
Then the night she fell
And the air was beautiful
The night she fell all around.
So look see the days
The endless coloured ways
And go play the game that you learnt
From the morning
And now we rise
And we are everywhere
And now we rise from the ground
And see she flies
And she is everywhere
See she flies all around
So look see the sights
The endless summer nights
And go play the game that you learnt
From the morning.
January 26th, 2006 at 6:45 pm
that is pure mysticism: poisting a theory of subjective truth as a universal truism. next.
i am in doubt about your ability to make any opinion about any subject whatsoever by that kind of statement. you happen to be very ignorant of the most influential of all modern occult technologies, chaos magic.
sorry Pam: capitalism is a far more successful cult at selling lies than communism.
the united states marine corps is far better at brainwashing individuals than any other magickal order on earth.
you betray your own sympathies without aiding your argument against communism, magick, authoritarinism, and self righteousness. i’m absolutely sure your ego is not boosted in the least explaining all this remit wisdom, a priori, to us.
January 26th, 2006 at 6:48 pm
[…] k
A peculiar discussion arose in response to my recent post on what I hate about the occult. In particular, the conversation ha […]
January 26th, 2006 at 8:46 pm
Kind of amusing to see the infighting spring up HERE! A self fulfilling cycle of … uh… stuff. DAmn I hate that. I like the definition of occult as ‘hidden’. If you have to look for it it’s to some degree occult. Magic is occult (unless it’s commercialised), but occult isn’t necessarily magic.
And perish forbid that my curiosity should corrupt poor vulnerable me!
-Hail Satan.
January 27th, 2006 at 12:46 am
Not much left to say, Pam, except that you apparently haven’t the faintest idea what you’re talking about. You’re displaying ignorant, uninformed bigotry disguised as an opinion.
January 27th, 2006 at 5:17 am
I am totally unimpressed by your comments, guys. I have very clear ideas what I am talking about, and in modern world any opinion might be dubbed “bigotry”. Still, it’s not my aim either to persuade or dissuade anyone in anything. My opinions are mine and they are 100 percent proven by experience. You can rattle on for days on end about truth, definately it’s “out there”, I’d better move on to follow my own aims. I got friends, who practice Toasism and guees what, they go twice a year to China and won’t waste their time on the web. Another group of friends practice techniques described by Castaneda, all of them are actually into action and far from rattling
January 27th, 2006 at 5:25 am
I am totally unimpressed by your comments, guys. I have very clear ideas what I am talking about, and in modern world any opinion might be dubbed “bigotry”. Still, it’s not my aim either to persuade or dissuade anyone in anything. My opinions are mine and they are 100 percent proven by experience. You can rattle on for days on end about truth, definately it’s “out there”, I’d better move on to follow my own aims. I got friends, who practice Toasism and guees what, they go twice a year to China and won’t waste their time on the web. Another group of friends practice techniques described by Castaneda, all of them are actually into “action” and far from rattling on. Obviously people who admire Cohelio and keep silence on Castaneda are sure to get all “truth” they can possibly embrace. I feel sorry for you guys.
January 27th, 2006 at 8:15 am
youre right pam and i cant speak for anyone else but if the lyrics i wrote were part of that then im sorry, i had the song playing and was relaxing with a brandy and the song when listened to is very serine but like most of my music its strong words spoken softly so i am genuinely sorry if i was part of making you feel like that. I had read in youre earlier post that you said “the world is buisness”, 1/3 of the world live in dire poverty and a child dies every 30 seconds from the same so no the world in my opinion is not about buisness as a large amount of people spend each day trying to survive. I have never nor would i call anyone stupid as you did in an earlier post, others may attack but i put my point forcefully without personal judgement calls because you cant know anyone from posts that are posted here. I cant speak for anyone else but im sorry if my words played a part in the way you felt.
January 27th, 2006 at 12:55 pm
I can’t speak for anybody else, but I don’t make comments so that people will be “impressed”. I make comments so as to share ideas and start meaningful discussions. I’ve personally found your comments meaningful, but I’d like to get to a deeper level with that meaning so I can better understand where you’re coming from.
I’m not sure about all that, but I thought it was wild that you said Communism was an occult doctrine. I’d still like to hear why you think that.
What is your aim then? I’d personally find hearing about what you love and what you believe in strongly more useful than getting into an argument over specifics of where our experiences differ.
And that’s all anybody can really ask, I think. The thing to keep in mind though, is that maybe other people’s experiences will “100 percent prove” completely different opinions. That seems to be very much happening above.
Good for them! They’ve clearly found something that works for them and are moving forward with it. We should all be so lucky - but please, in the meantime, allow us our further explorations.
Please see my original article above: “My personal favorite is when occultists accuse other occultists of not being ‘occult enough’.” Again - I’m pleased to hear that you’ve found an author whose work resonates with you deeply. That is quite an experience to have!
Compassion is one of the greatest virtues there is. I’m honored that our words would engage you in any kind of emotional response, especially that one.
January 29th, 2006 at 6:58 am
You have some excellent critiques here.
Some people in the occult are interested in it because they value the imagination, and are interested in mysterious, surreal aspects of existence.
Others seem to be attracted towards power, and secretive ways of achieving power, and this draws some with psychopathic edges.
Agree completely about all the in-fighting and squabbling in occult circles.
I do definitely think there is a degree of the verrrry sinister in some of this stuff … see Coogan’s theories on the S.S. creating an occult underground vis-a-vis Evola, and the way this may have infiltrated everywhere … people like to portray satanists as fun-loving anti-authoritarians (which some of them are), but there are also those who worship evil as such, and that is just frightening …
You’ve also got to take into account that any religious phenomena is going to be rampant with cultish and authoritarian bytones. See “The Guru Papers”.
One has to demand the HIGHEST ethical standards from those practicing the occult, higher than those not. Since the occult often attracts the marginal, who are often acting out their rebellious impulses rather than engaging in rational anti-authoritarianism, the prospects don’t seem too hopeful in many regards.
January 29th, 2006 at 1:24 pm
I think that’s a really interesting viewpoint - mainly because so many occultists would probably argue that they are way beyond ethics at all. I might make a post dedicated to this subject…