If we think that anything is strange, when something is out of it’s context - it’s often becouse we have not put the pieces together in our understanding. I think, thats it’s easy to see that this is not strange at all, Li Hongzhi talks about how this fits together.

There is worse things than this killing in the name of religion. When human beings change behaviour, looses it’s roots, it’s understanding of whats the meaning of life, why is humans here on earth now, in this speciell and preciouse time, why is there suffering and “problems” etc. We should not forget that every true religion (they have been gone for a long time ago) and enlighted being says that the “bad things” that happen is something which have it’s origine from the person himself, that he have dont acted/thought according to principles which the cosmos have. The cultivation ways, or the ortodox religions inner most meaning was that the followers should follow a path, a cultivation path, along with principles at high levels - to come back to your true nature, or paradise, out of samsara.

You mention tolerance, if you think about that, the world now promote that it’s OK to do much things, in the name of tolerance. As follow personal roads with behaviour thats not at all human, but more selfish things, satisfaction of our ego, etc. The criterion for good and bad changes, bad things says to be good things, “we should all have our rights to have our freedom…”. It’s really rapid declining, no doubt about it.

Li Hongzhi talks about that in Zhuan Falun, and in it’s context. When reading that, I think most people will clearly see what the world have becomed.

“In other words, there are still some people who are foggyheaded while these gigantic changes are taking place. It’s time that they wake up and become aware of what they are doing. The truths and principles that I, Li Hongzhi, have made known have never been disclosed for thousands, well, billions of years, or by any saviors before, no matter who they were, by any of the enlightened beings who came down to this world, no matter how many there have been, or by any of the immortals who enlightened to certain truths, no matter how many there have been.”

He’s basically saying that only he and he himself has enlightened to high spiritual truths, I find this highly unlikely and very arrogant. Humility is a very beautiful trait which Li is lacking in.

I still beleive that Falun Dafa is a positive practice but I don’t think it’s the be all end all path to enlightenment.

In his talks and lectures he constantly talks how “ordinary” people and society is gradually declining and getting worse. I don’t beleive this at all. In the past there was alot persectuation both religious and other, the inquisition, witch burning, tortures beyond comprehension. Now? We have more understanding, more communication, religious and spiritual and ethnic tolerence and celebration. Somehow I don’t really see this “declining” in society at all. Theres still problems with ourselves and the world but much less so then there used to be imho.

My question for you would be: Li Hongzhi seems to spend a great deal of time in his lectures explaining how other qigong masters are possessed and will lead you into possession as well. So we see the founder of your tradition asking us to be careful and critical of other competing traditions. Why shouldn’t we take his advice and apply that same care, insight and criticism to him as well?

As we maybe know or think, in “these days” nothing is any longer so god, and the standard for what is god or bad are shifting on an increasingly down slipping path. But it’s also so that, as we can see in yin/yang-symbol - that even if it goes to the extreme, then there is a little point of the other “side/pole”. In relation to this, we can imagine this point as light, or truth, which will transform everything. Then we have the future, a new world, or cosmos.

This is nothing to debate around.

I disagree. There are plenty of things to debate here, just like there are with any type of religious and social movement.

You don’t need to buy anything to practise.

Maybe that’s true, but that doesn’t by itself prove that it’s a worthwhile spiritual practice. That’s the only point I’m trying to make. I don’t really have anything against Falun Dafa at all. I think it’s interesting and worthy of further study and exploration - but I don’t think people should blindly and uncritically accept it as “good” just because it’s free! If that were the case, then we could teach our children that it’s okay to take rides or candy from strangers, as long as it’s free!

“I’m not interested in debating whether or not Falun Dafa is righteous or worthwhile, but I do think that just because something is given away freely, that doesn’t make it necessarily good. Reminds me of a commercial for a very dangerous-looking diet pill advertised on late night TV. They offer to send you a free bottle, and then they have a woman who exclaims “If it’s free, then it’s got to be good!”

It´s same here, I am not interested in debate it either… you just have to look up what Falun Dafa is, or talk to practitioners, there is maybe 100 million of them - then you will know. This is nothing to debate around. You don’t need to buy anything to practise. The medical companies destroy your bodies, make sickness take other forms in the future, in more serious ways. Companies can’t remove “bad things”, which have roots deeper than this physical dimension - and they are after your money.

Cultivation in an upright spiritual school, is to have come across the most valuable thing possible in life.

I know that evertything in Falun Dafa is free of charge, everything is given from the hart - so it could only be for an cultivation way that is upright and true.

I’m not interested in debating whether or not Falun Dafa is righteous or worthwhile, but I do think that just because something is given away freely, that doesn’t make it necessarily good. Reminds me of a commercial for a very dangerous-looking diet pill advertised on late night TV. They offer to send you a free bottle, and then they have a woman who exclaims “If it’s free, then it’s got to be good!”

Jonas:

Just mentioning this doesn’t make you know so much about the teaching, so I would recommend people to read some basic introduction..

Agreed. You will find the same disclaimer stated in my article above. I always abide in the notion that if people really want to know, then they need to do so for themselves, and not take my word for anything.

It doesn’t surprise me that the regime say things like Falun Gong is a CIA operation, I think it is a redicilous assertion and it would really surprise me if anyone think it is that way..

Again, I have no way of knowing this is true or false. What I do know is that there are definitely CIA links to other groups who have resisted the Chinese and other totalitarian governments (such as the Tibetans). So while it may be distasteful to suggest links between them and Falun Dafa - it’s not entirely out of the question. After all, let’s not forget that the CIA funded Osama Bin Laden against the Soviets. That’s just how they do things. They are pragmatic and take whatever opportunities are presented to them.

I know people who had their Celestial Eyes (please refer to the teaching of Falun Dafa for an explanation of this) opened through practicing Falun Dafa and see quite clearly, and several of them have told me about how they have seen that some people actually have animals controlling them - sometimes a fox, sometimes other kinds of animals.

Of course, this takes place in other space-time dimensions (again, please refer to the teaching of Falun Dafa for an explanation of this; other dimensions, by the way, no longer being a concept scientist see as unbelievable; qigong masters and other cultivators around the world have of course experienced it for ages, but the details have not been made public).

In general terms, it is my understanding that it is a responsibility of a Master to tell a student about phenomena that can be problems during someone´s cultivation practice (call it spiritual path, if you are more familiar with that term). But Master Li Hongzhi has not only talked about bad phenomenons in the community of cultivators, but also acknowledged other traditional and upright practices. Please be aware of that a basic principle of Falun Dafa is that it should be offered free of charge (you can of course buy a book in the book store, but also possible to download them for free from the Internet).

Many practitioners in China feel that they have benefitted much from this practice, and that they have found a genuine spiritual path to cultivate in. That is why they simply refuse to give up the practice even under torture or threat of death from the Communist Communist Party hooligans.

During this six years of persecution, the Chinese Communist Party has spitted out an almost endless stream of lies and slander to frame Falun Dafa, in order to “legitimize” its extermination/brainwashing campaign. (Lies and slander is something the CCP has gained an expertise in during its 50 year of terrorizing the Chinese people, by the way. Persecutions of other spiritual disciplines in China is just another proof of that.) Therefore, many Falun Dafa practitioners have worked quite hard to expose this persecution and these lies.

Sometimes it is easy to expose their lies and slander, when it is obvious and downright ridiculous. Sometimes it is harder, and that is when they take out a teaching from Falun Dafa, twist it around and completely take it out from its context. Why does it become harder then? Because in our modern materialistic world, less and less people believe in anything beyond what our human flesh eyes can see. As soon as you have to talk about things that concern things beyond this world, they think it is “strange”.

So, I recommend people interested in spiritual paths, meditation, the occult and qigong etc., who, before making assumptions about this practice, read the introduction book of Falun Dafa (”Falun Gong”) and the main book (”Zhuan Falun”) from beginning to end. This is because the books contain concepts that are quite unfamiliar to many of us “modern people”, and even more so for westeners like me. By reading through these two books, you will get a complete and fair picture, and be in the best position to judge if it is something you feel drawn to or not, believe in or not.

Even if one is not interested in the practice oneself, it is my hope that people can respect this spiritual path chosen by millions of people from all walks of life. Because this will indirectly help to end the persecution of Falun Gong and its practitioners in China sooner.

This became a long post, longer than I intended. Anyway, thanks for taking the time to read, and I wish you, no matter which path you are on, a life full of Truth, Compassion, and Forbearance.

Practitioners with information about the persecution in of Falun Gong in China… I don’t find it especially hoaxy, just quite understandable. I am glad that their are people in this world which stands up for human rights and freedom. If noone would make arrangements so people could hear and read about practitioners which are being tortured, parents who die as a result of the persecution so many children don’t have a father or a mother or are missing both etc, well that would be really bad. So much suffering because of a regime… Well I think it is sad and cruel and I thank the people who let people know about the persecution. It doesn’t surprise me that the regime say things like Falun Gong is a CIA operation, I think it is a redicilous assertion and it would really surprise me if anyone think it is that way..

Well well it was intersting to read this article… Have a nice time!

I think that Falun Dafa is the name on this cultivation way and that Falun Gong was the name first used in China, maybe more related to the five sets of exercices(similar to qi gong), and that it have to do with registration in China(?) The very suppressing and ateistic regime in China wants to control everything. Religions are not allowed - only the twisted and controlled variants supervised of the regime. So it was not possible to have names similar to the the ancient names of different qi gong practices of course, names as “The Great Cultivation way of Tao, or “the Great Cultivation way of Buddha Dharma” etc. It was at those days not called qi gong of course. These names couldn’t be used under this evil communist regime, or under the cultural revolution, so the it been this name “qi gong”. But qi gong is Cultivation from the beginning - not just some exercises for fitness or regain the health. Falun Dafa is the cultivation way for our time, and have a physical part with five execices. At the same time there is many shame qi gong methods in society which costs a lot of money to learn. I know that evertything in Falun Dafa is free of charge, everything is given from the hart - so it could only be for an cultivation way that is upright and true.

I’ve seen the concept of cultivating spiritual energy improperly, or for selfish reasons, leading to injurious effects, in Chinese TV serials before, though, so it appears not to be a recent idea.

The possession idea is interesting to me from another angle, though: my spouse once had a practitioner of TCM ‘explain’ that multiplicity was a result of ghosts or discarnate spirits possessing a living person whose energy had become somehow unbalanced, therefore allowing them to ‘get in.’ She never predicted results as dire as Li does, but she did seem to think it constituted an unbalanced and undesirable state of affairs.

as for falun dafa propoganda…the chinese government has claimed on several occasions that the group is a CIA operation. dunno what truth there is to it, but apparently the founder was able to get into the U.S. quite easily ahead of a lot of other folks seeking asylum. he lives in NYC and is quite reclusive and since the don’t charge anything for people to come to a gathering and falun-dafa-it up it does raise the question of how they are funding themselves and all the street theatre they do, not to mention their free newspaper, the epoch times. as of late, there seems to be a free box for epoch times on every third street corner in manhattan. (a little exaggeration, but they are pretty numerous all of a sudden.) It raises questions, for sure, though it doesn’t necessarily mean Li is a spook. And them exercises are pretty relaxing and energizing…

heh, handing out propaganda? at the airport in NY…asians were sitting in small cages and all the material they had was cd’s, dvds, pamphlets. all discussing the mistreatment of practicioners in china. apparently a government conspiracy based on seizing their potential power. It alll seemed very hoaxy.

1) the story of the natives who suffered a famine (or some sort of catastrophe) and found that a wolf (or wolves) were able to “lead them” to food/shelter/survival. reading such a story mythically, as it is probably is meant to be read (i think), vaguely suggests some elements of the above story. makes me want to think deeper about totem animals in general, and gives joseph campbell’s book title “the way of the animal powers” a bit of thought.

2) the upcoming (and long overdo!) zelda game for nintendo gamecube looks to be focused around link’s ability to either change into or become possessed by certain animals (a wolf is the one i recall from the online trailer). i haven’t read much about the game, but from what i’ve seen much of it will be played “as link, through an animal”. check out the trailer for the game here http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=571683099870616262

3) and finally, something ive been quite mindful of in the past year or so of my life is the conflicting energies/instincts/impulses that arise within — our “animal” nature vs. our “human” nature (to give them crude names). By “animal” i mean the part of us that wants to gorge oursleves until we’re full, screw everything that moves, punch others in the face at the moment of agitation, and generally be lazy whenever our situation allows (in all cases — we’re as if “ruled” by powers within we cannot control). our “human” aspect, by contrast, seeks to find meaning in the carefully prepared (and eaten) meal, develop a meaningful relationship with a spouse (this is for many people, but i do not to write off polygamy/etc), evoke our compassion in times of agitation, and generally strive to overcome our sloth and reach our full potential. this latter aspect of ourselves certainly doesn’t come easy, but i believe leads us to the experience we are truly looking for. ….. so, in regard to the post above, “animal possesion” (in this light) can have a meaning of its own.