The internet porn thing… well, I’m not sure how I feel about that, and I’m not sure how it fits into how it effects kids in this issue for sure, but I think it’s kindof an easy scapegoat for the real issue, which is probably deprivation.

1st try on the block quote thing above so hope it worked.
Ant - ya I wasn’t looking to place the whole topic at the feet of porn.
I was just kind of wondering as I typed about that specific issue of bj’s
in classrooms and when in the name of krusty this became a possible
if not allowable occurance. I am not one to especially blame, like rock lyrics for suicide as a possible analogy - just wondering along the lines that the 60’s was the start of a less sexually repressive / media saturated society, then how its moved on through the time that I passed thru HS to today (and mags, vcr’s, then internet in that span). Now when I was in early high school at 13 or whatever, the possibility of getting me a bj in class, for real, wasn’t in the air. I wasn’t exactly advanced joe studly but to take me out of the equation, I never heard anyone with such a story to tell either. I am wondering when the leap was made that now it is told as a kind of factual occurance among kids that age in school.

Tantra tells us the only effective disciplines left to humans are breathing and sexual practices. Now, the breathing is fairly simple: breath in counting to four, hold for four, exhale for four, hold for four, repeat for five hours a day for ten years until you break into the pleroma.

But what about sex?

I don’t think we really appreciate the power of sexual practice, even those chaos magickians “[v]oicing lackluster admonitions to half-forgotten powers, shy petitions to gain entry into the hallowed mysteries of the office receptionist’s pants.” Karezza can lead to religious ecstacy and out-of-body experience. Even simply a long period of stimulation can break through in the orgasm to a massive etheric download…

I think “the reality priesthood” realizes this, and pursues stupid-ass policy/engineered experience that creates this world of abstinence and two-minute blowjobs–niether buys you the ticket. Consider how damn near no one can offer sexual training, e.g., or even explain it… Download Melissa Gira’s Whorecast 11?, “Another Sex Magick Social Network” for more albeit less top-down paranoid and more about sexual initations of the initatiatory sort. Sacred Whore main site

But what do I hear about now from some of my teacher friends that still work there? Stories about kids giving and getting blowjobs in the back of the classroom while class is in session.

If true, this is a terrible catastrophe. I know where all that excess leads. Even forgetting the physical dangers, there is a spiritual price to be paid.

Unfortunately, I don’t think that abstinence/virginity pledges are the answer. They serve only to mystify sex, make it more alluring by making it taboo. Plus, it doesn’t seem to work, or at least it doesn’t work in the way it’s supposed to (see my post above). There is a bigger problem here, one that involves the commodification of other people. This is a big topic, and the only people who seem to have addressed it are feminists to whom very few people listen these days.

As we advance towards late-stage capitalism (and perhaps the end of civilization), we are now reaping the consequences of aggressive commodification of every possible thing. Dunno what can be done about it.

Foucault was also into BDSM and died of AIDS. Funny, how the dog chasing its tail bites itself sometimes.

So that’s just more first-hand experience to back up Tim and his own story of childhood sexual repression (and how it ultimately fails).

http://www.timboucher.com/journal/2005/01/sun-myung-moon.html

I believe that focusing on sexual conduct serves many purposes for someone trying to maintain control over members of a totalistic group. By turning natural biological and emotional drives into something shameful, it creates guilt, confusion, self doubt, and a sense of sinfulness, which in turn creates a need for salvation and a dependence on your savior, usually the group leader. It diverts attention away from other conduct in the group which might be seen as immoral such as deception, emotional abuse, exploitation, etc. It also serves to create a sense of self righteousness in the members - after all, if they are not “doing it”, they can view themselves as superior, pure and “undefiled”. It serves the group to channel that sexual energy into the “mission”. This was the case in George Orwell’s “1984″, where the authoritarian police state had it’s “chastity patrol”. In fact, it could be argued that a totalistic group must control it’s members sex and love life, for their compelling and powerful nature make them the biggest threat to the groups control over the members lives.

What I wonder is how this whole abstinence in schools thing contributes to the fetishization of the young. It’s like, by framing the argument in the first place, are you actually conflating “Kids” and “Sex” in the cultural millieu? After all, how many of these pro-abstinence parents turn around and dress up their 8-year olds like fashion models & parade them around on stage?

There was a time period though when I was younger that we made posters like this though. Nothing to this extent, for sure, but a lot of it was a matter of rhyming a funny word with something crucial. Crack is whack! Ecstacy is… flex… f… nevermind.
I dunno, it was like, if you get a good grade for it, it’s worth it. But like I said, those campaigns are weird. And over time, my school (mostly after I left) started taking away school dances because they were “too sexual,” anything Valentines themed, started promoting abstinence like mad, and probably castrated one in ten boys at random. But what do I hear about now from some of my teacher friends that still work there? Stories about kids giving and getting blowjobs in the back of the classroom while class is in session. So, is all of that bullshit working?

Just to add: how can one expect a 13 or 14-year-old to understand the concept of abstinence if they’ve never been in heat? That is, if they never been in a situation where sexual activity is an immediate possibility?

I get the sense that many of those kids are honest when they say “no” to sex. But many of them don’t actually know what that ‘no’ means.

Of course, I don’t have children, so it’s probably a lot more complicated than I’m thinking.

Obviously STDs and Pregnancy are also a big part of teaching kids about sex. I remember being about 19 in a convenience store and watching the woman behind the counter deny a 14 year old boy condoms because she thought he was “too young to be having sex.” Apparently she didn’t think he was too young to be getting a 14 year old girl pregnant.

It amazes me that people like to push off even talking about sex and just going with a “just don’t do it” approach. It’s a cop-out. No wonder kids are having blow job parties at 12. No one ever really taught them about sex. Of course, their parents and teachers are probably just as ignorant as their children, so it just becomes a case of the blind leading the blind.

- The Xian fundies on the first hand, shoving their agenda down the throats of innocent kids (talk about freaking rape!!)

- The pseudo psycho-babble, fluffy-Cosmopolitan psychanalists and trendy Spin doctors a la Dr. Phil, rubbing their hands, masturbating their wallets at the though of these generations and generations of future nevrosed neurotics and psychopaths to be milked.

Data from the National Longitudinal Study of Adolescent Health (Add Health) suggest that virginity pledge programs have had mixed results. They have been shown to delay intercourse up to 18 months, result in participating youth having fewer sex partners and getting married earlier. The long-term effectiveness of this approach, however, is questionable. A study analyzing the data found that 88% of pledgers had sex before marriage.[6] In addition, teens who took pledges were just as likely to contract STDs as those who did not; the study found that this was because the virginity pledgers were less likely to use condoms when they did have sex.[7]

References [6] and [7] are from Peter Bearman, Hannah Bruckner, “The Relationship Between Virginity Pledges in Adolescence and STD Acquisition in Young Adulthood,” Paper Presented at the National STD Conference, March 9, 2004. Peter Bearman is a sociologist/econometrician out of Columbia, and designed and directed the National Longitudinal Study of Adolescent Health. Here is the abstract from a relevant paper:

Since 1993, in response to an organized social movement sponsored by the Southern Baptist Church, well over two and a half million adolescents have taken public “virginity” pledges, in which they promise to abstain from sex until marriage. This paper explores the effect of virginity pledges on the transition to first intercourse. On one hand, we show that adolescents who pledge, controlling for all of the usual characteristics of adolescents and their social contexts that are associated with the transition to sex, are much less likely than adolescents who do not pledge, to have intercourse. The delay effect is substantial and almost impossible to erase. Taking a pledge delays intercourse for a long time. On the other hand, the pledge effect depends on age. Pledging does not work for adolescents at all ages. Second, pledging delays intercourse only in contexts where there are some, but not too many, pledgers. Too few, and too many, pledgers in the adolescent world can negate the pledge effect. The pledge works because it is embedded in an identity movement. Consequently, like other identity movements, the pledge identity is relatively fragile and meaningful only in contexts where it is at least partially non-normative. Consequences of pledging are explored for those who break their promise. Promise breakers are less likely to use contraception at first intercourse.

Identification (and promotion) of an incorrect imperative, perhaps?

The origins of the fundamental reciprocal relationship between physical violence and physical pleasure can be traced to philosophical dualism and to the theology of body/soul relationships. In Western philosophical thought man was not a unitary being but was divided into two parts, body and soul. The Greek philosophical conception of the relationship between body and soul was quite different than the Judeo-Christian concept which posited a state of war between the body and soul. Within Judeo-Christian thought the purpose of human life was to save the soul, and the body was seen as an impediment to achieving this objective. Consequently, the body must be punished and deprived. In St. Paul’s words: “Put to death the base pursuits of the body—for if you live according to the flesh, you shall die: but if by the spirit you mortify the deeds of the flesh, you shall live” (Romans 8:13). St. Paul clearly advocated somatosensory pleasure deprivation and enhancement of painful somatosensory stimulation as essential prerequisites for saving the soul.

“Now concerning the things whereof you wrote to me: It is good for a man not to touch a woman” (1 Corinthians, 7:1).

Explore violence.de and see what you find. Don’t know if everybody will agree with all of it as it comes from a materialist/secular humanist perspective. Still seems pretty damned compelling to me though.

Gee, um…

What scares me the most, though, is that reasonable adults think that force feeding opinions into children about something the children can’t yet fully understand is a good idea. Or even an idea that has half a chance to suceed.

BTW, how are you adjusting to Seattle? Have you made it to the Art Museum? Is the hammering man still outside pounding unsuspecting tourists? Ever pick up Tom Robbins book yet? Still Life with Woodpecker might be good to enjoy with the coming pacific northwest spring…

I am tempted to say something about how awful it is that these abstinence posters is basically doing the same thing to children. But this brainwashing technique is central to other aspects of the educational system as well. I don’t know if it would even be possible to educate children without using the technique. What I do know is that the abstinence posters are very creepy. The whole abstinence campaign is almost sure to backfire, and the proponents will be left either scratching their heads and wondering what went wrong (duh) or doggedly defending it in spite of its obvious wrongheadedness (much more likely IMO).