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Racist Against Racists
A conversation with a friend has got me thinking: is it okay to be racist against racists?
By that, I mean that racists seem to operate on the foundation that a class of people are of lesser worth because of biological factors than others. Subsequently, they tend to make blanket statements about these groups, villifying them, etc. The thought crime here, of course, is prejudice - which we could loosely define as making a decision before you have all the facts. Or, allowing your decision to override or filter out any possible contradictory facts.
The proper progressive response nowadays to racism, ironically, seems to be to categorically dismiss people who hold these views. In effect, a sort of ideological racism against racists. Maybe it’s not so ironic though, since racists hate people because of biological factors, things which the victims can’t really change. And anti-racists hate racists because of ideologies or beliefs, which we believe *can* be changed. We believe that you can make a decision not to hate blacks or gays, while you can’t simply make a decision not to be black or gay (although, many Christians do of course argue that homosexuality is a choice).
Ultimately though, the real crime of racism has to do with discrediting people, and not recognizing their worth as humans. When broken down like that though, the question arises, are people who *hate* racists doing the same thing? Is it hypocritical for us to completely dismiss and discredit people based on their beliefs, even if we believe their beliefs to be nasty and awful? Is it the same thing to say “I hate racists” as it is to say “I hate blacks”? Don’t both statements turn complex beings with souls into simple caricatures, sets of preconceived attributes rather than real people?
This brings up the question also of, when dealing with racists, how are we to interact with them while being true to our beliefs? That is, how can we respect their humanity and understand and empathize with their emotional state when it doesn’t jive with our own? Is it our responsibility to tell them that they are “wrong” and try to correct their beliefs? Is it okay to be racist against racists or does that put us in the same boat as them?
PS. Rather than just addressing this on an intellectual level, I’d love to hear people’s personal experiences relating to racism and prejudice. I feel like we might get farther with concrete examples than strictly theoretical inquiry.
April 3rd, 2006 at 1:45 pm
I remember my step-dad was pretty racist, or maybe what you would call ‘casually racist’. He’d toss around words like “nigger” and “tar-baby” a lot, but didn’t espouse any racist ideology. Your typical blue-collar, lower-middle class, white bigot. The odd thing is that we used to watch stuff like In Living Color and black stand-up comedy on TV whenever it was on; he loved that stuff. A friend of mine also reported the same about his cowboy father in Texas–and when he told me that, I also remembered this guy in the KKK who used to appear occasionally on Howard Stern’s radio show who would “review” black movies and television (of course, this was done ironically on the show, but the guy himself, I believe, was actually a klansmen and wasn’t trying to be satirical.)
It was striking to me, but sort of made sense too; the principles of duality and all that. When I think back to my step-dad, I don’t have any sense of trying to morally reconcile his racial insensitivities, and I sort of just came to accept it as part of who he was; it was funny to me, just another one of those trivial little idiosyncracies that define a person in your mind. I guess it sort of suited him.
I was very young at the time, so it never occured to me to reconcile his racism in any way, either to assimilate it or question it… it just didn’t affect me much. I guess it takes a sophisticated perspective to let someone be a dehumanizing jerk in front of you and not get squirmy or offended (which I probably would nowadays)–in other words, not feel threatened. Only a child can pull off that kind of equanimity.
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More on the intellectual side:
I read a wide-ranging amount of material, so I inevitably come across some very smart people who occasionally have racist inclinations, but I’ve found that that doesn’t bother me either. I know what appeals to me in their thinking and I take what I can get out of it, I don’t need to also accept or agree with the parts that don’t appeal to me, but I also don’t have the desire to white-wash or down-play their controversial opinions. In fact, I’m entirely in favor of people being racist if they feel some genuine resonance in that.
I’m reminded of how Ezra Pound lamented his anti-semitism to Allen Ginsberg, who responded simply that it was a true expression of how he felt then, so there was no mistake made or shame to be felt. We need to allow people to evolve and change their thinking according to their relationship with the world; if this means being a racist for some time, then so be it. Brow-beating or dismissing such people only creates more tension and potentially causes you to lose sight of any other insights such a person might have. In fact, I think the anti-racist current may have played a part in hardening racist ideologies by further defining the duality of being racist or non-racist.
April 3rd, 2006 at 1:53 pm
Excellently put. You really clarified a point for me about being honest with yourself and others about your feelings. If those feelings are shitty, well that sucks, but having the courage to be honest can be the first step in a more interesting direction…
April 3rd, 2006 at 2:38 pm
It is natural for people to feel affinity for their ethnic ancestry. In fact, I think it is a healthy phenomenon.
Since I believe it is natural for people to have pride in their ethnic ancestry and therefore to implicitly look down on those of different ancetry, I don’t have a serious problem talking with racists. I was at a seminar once and there was a self-identified white separatist there. Interestingly no other whites wanted to talk with him. However, a black girl, a latina, and an Asian girl started up a very respectful, interesting and normal conversation with the guy.
Most people of any race are racist. I think it is healthier to be honest about it than try to hide as most people do, especially whites (Latinos, Blacks, Asian, First Nations, etc are much more vocal about their racial/ethnic pride).
If one has any doubts about racial preferences just look at any personals site. Most of the women prefer men who are of the same racial background. This is a natural healthy preference. Unfortunately, openly discussing these racial preferences is totally taboo in our society.
April 3rd, 2006 at 2:40 pm
[…] for room to fight against any group, no matter how despicable. (Tim has a related post: Racist against Racists)
[…]
April 3rd, 2006 at 2:51 pm
I wouldn’t say, personally, that I’m “racist against racists,” but I would go as far as to say that I’m pretty intolerant of bigots and anti-Semities and homophobes. That shit don’t fly. They’re perfectly welcome to believe it, of course, and I’m not out to change any minds, but that doesn’t mean I can’t find bigotry despicable. It’s against everything I’ve ever learned or stood for, and against every single spiritual insight I’ve ever been lucky enough to have.
I don’t hate someone for being hateful but I do hate the exclusionist crap they espouse. And, I don’t have a serious problem talking with racists, but I have no interest in doing so. Growing up in north Florida, a ridiculously racist place, I had no choice but to get used to it, but I had to draw the line once when my boss called me a ‘nigger lover’ for telling him I wasn’t comfortable with his racist comments. I said, “yeah, I guess I am, so you better find yourself someone who isn’t,” and walked out.
FWIW, I think Scherzo is absolutely right that people prefer people of their own ethnicity. I also agree that we’re all racist in one way or another. I guess I just think racism is a stupid backwards trait that seems more fitting for animals than humans.
April 3rd, 2006 at 3:51 pm
Dude, this response is summed up by the old cliched image of an ostrich with its head firmly planted in the sand. I have these fuckers spreading their swill in my neighborhood, and I’ll be damned if I know what can “safely” be done about it. Any asshole can self-publish these days, and it’s only getting easier. Look at your peers in the “blogspace” and see.
April 3rd, 2006 at 4:33 pm
So what is it that you’re saying?
April 3rd, 2006 at 5:00 pm
I have to wonder about that. It’s been my experience that this outlook seems to hold most true for Americans with no real connection to the culture their ancestors were a part of. When you’re not faced with the reality of a culture, it’s ‘really’ easy to just pick and choose the best parts of it throughout all history and just expand that to be a norm that never really existed.
I wouldn’t say it’s every case, but I would say it’s true of an awful lot of people I’ve known who take more pride in the accomplishments of very distant relations than they do for their own works.
April 3rd, 2006 at 5:26 pm
Tim, I’m agreeing with you, I think. Although I will never apologize for organized racism, I will not kick anyone to the curb for their beliefs.
Sorry. I really don’t have my shit together enough lately to articulate a point, so I should probably just think before I type.
April 3rd, 2006 at 9:26 pm
I hate racists. The only two thing I hate more than a racist are people with different skin colors. But seriously I think racism is an illusion created by the media, which of course was created by the Demiurge which was created by the ‘original media’. Anyways, I’m not a totem pole used to invoke gnome energy but I do have an 8 legged brain and it says judge people by the way the boogie not by the color of the skin.
“I am 1 out of 6,567,702,056. Alot of I’s.” Huggy the Zombie
“merry christmas” santa clause
Opps I I overdosed on my silly pill again tee hee hee!
April 4th, 2006 at 12:29 am
Who “hates” racists? In my experience, most people fear racists, get very angry at/about them, pity them, ignore them or even express amusement at the level of their ignorance. But hatred against racists I haven’t seen. I’ve never seen nor heard about a violent attack on a racist that was provoked by that racist’s racial beliefs. I’ve never seen nor heard about any group organized to seek out and attack any and all racists. I’ve never nor heard about any racists being lynched for his or her racism.
So, my answer to your question is that no, I don’t think that ‘prejudicial hatred’ (a good term to replace ‘racism’ in this context, maybe?) toward racists is a problem. Some people’s attitude toward racists may approach irrational, but I don’t think it ever gets to a level that we could equate to racism in its moral repugnancy.
April 4th, 2006 at 12:31 am
Reading your post again, I see that you were looking for some other kind of answers. Sorry! Better luck next time, maybe.
April 4th, 2006 at 1:05 am
C’mon my white brothers; when you saw Football and da’ gang wailing on Reginal Denny, didn’t you say “you goddamn niggers!!…..
People are complex. There are those who write off whole swaths of humanity because of their race; others can be racist if you push the right buttons. Still others may try their best to get along with everybody, but fear can bring out some troubling feelings and latent predjudices.
Yes, it is just as bad for non-racists to write off “racists” as it is to be racist oneself. (I also think that many “non-racists” are just self-aggrandizing blowhards; self-righteous pricks.)
April 4th, 2006 at 2:24 am
I don’t hate racists, I just don’t like it when people are racist. For example it seems to be the thing that if someone does something really good in interschool sport the guys will go around giving each other high-fives saying stuff llike ‘you are so black’ in reference to the preconception that black people are really really
good at sport. (Of course this is disregarding all the stuff in the Power of Illusion documentary that was on television a while ago, which I can’t be bothered explaining to them all)
Also there are some people who make racist jokes and find them amusing, but they aren’t ‘racists’, if that makes sense. Like my school is pretty multi-cultural, but I would say that the majority of people are of European decent and the people I am talking about aren’t mean to those of other races - they’re pretty good mates actually. They just find the jokes amusing. I don’t like the jokes or go around saying “I’m so black” because I don’t find it amusing. But it is just a joke. They don’t mean anything by it, and the people of other races don’t seem to mind.
April 4th, 2006 at 10:02 am
Everybody is racist to one degree or another. If we are racist, it is *our* problem. It isn’t the job of people of the race or races we may be prejudiced against to convince us that they are really okay after all. What is reprehensible and pretty unforgivable is the assumption that one’s ingrained racism is somehow objectively true and worthy of being say, the centerpiece of an ideology or a “religion.”
People like that can change, of course. That would be the ideal. But if I have to beat their brains out with a tire iron *before* they have this miraculous awakening in order to keep them from harming me or someone I care about, *that’s* okay too.
Have a nice day.
April 4th, 2006 at 3:27 pm
Racism is about who someone is.
“Racism” against racists is not about who the person is, but what the person does.
A black man cannot (nor should he try to) refrain from being black. A racist can refrain from being a racist.
I define racism losely as “being a jerk about somebody else’s race”. I have no problem with the fact that I dislike jerks. That being said, I don’t freak out at every ethnic joke or insensitive remark. I have a problem with mean-spriritedness, of which real racism is an example, and offense-seeking is another.
April 5th, 2006 at 9:33 am
I dunno - this topic is confusing for me sometimes. I don’t hate racists. If that was the case, I’d wind up hating a LOT of people I know or have known in the past. I’m in grad school and I live in a “liberal/left” city and the 6 months I’ve been here I’ve seen all kinds of racism. An acquaintance of mine here made a shockingly racist comment to me some weeks back. I was totally floored. So, I agree with the person who made the comment that racist folks can change. That’s fine. If they don’t want to hang with me - that’s their choice. But if they want to be actively bigoted and lynch me, that’s another matter.
Regarding the ethnic affinty comment - I gotta admit, that’s true. Most people do tend to gravitate towards their own “kind,” so to speak. It’s too long and complicated to get into here, but that’s part of the reason that places like NYC, Miami, and Chicago (I’ve lived in all 3) have ethnic communities - regardless of “race.” I’ll admit too, I am relieved when I’m not the only minority person in the room.
April 6th, 2006 at 2:28 am
I couldn’t help but think about this when I was watching The Daily Show tonight. I hope you caught it.
April 6th, 2006 at 11:04 am
no i didnt…
April 6th, 2006 at 12:52 pm
Sorry. They basically did a bit where Rob Corddry assumed the role of a racist who felt persecuted for his beliefs. You should check it out on tonights rerun if you can.
April 6th, 2006 at 9:27 pm
I don’t hate racist as people but I really can’t stand racism. I seem to be the only
one bothered by it in my boyfriend’s big group of friends. I gave up standing up to them. It seems to be getting worse. There’s not one day when they don’t call refer to blacks as anything BUT human. This is an all-white Ontario town.
They grew up with blacks in the city and now won’t go to the city cause they “don’t wanna look at the jungle monkeys in the face.”
The conveninence store is called the chink store.
I with they would someday change their minds but they won’t. It’s gotten me real
depressed. I feel crazy for being so bothered by it. Wish I wasn’t.