7 Reader Responses

1. slomo Says:
   April 28th, 2006 at 5:05 pm

   Well, from a purely chemical standpoint you could be ingesting stress-induced proteins. (That would be true for vegetables as well). Also, artificial hormones and the like.

   I tend to see the material and “spiritual” world as one and the same, so for me ingesting bad chemicals is pretty much the same as ingesting bad karma. This, by the way, isn’t to deny spirit or an attempt to downgrade the meaning of karma, but rather to emphasize the concrete within the metaphor.

   I tried giving up meat for lent (not so much as a xtian observance but because my partner is a semi-observant Catholic and it seemed like a good time to synch up with respect to our “sacrifices”). I did not succeed. First of all, from the beginning I allowed myself fish. But I ended up eating chicken and red meat again in about the 5th week.

   I’m very uncomfortable with eating meat. But, it is difficult to find other high-density nutrition. I would be more comfortable with it if killing the animal was a truly “fair fight”, as in the way Native Americans did it. But that is not the case in 21st Century America. However, I find that I am now keenly aware of what I am doing when I eat a piece of meat, and find myself mediating on the life of the animal I’m about to eat. This may eventually drive me to vegetarianism once again.

   Still, what to do about my dog? It might be cruel to force her to be a vegetarian?

2. channel null Says:
   April 28th, 2006 at 9:14 pm

   Believe it or not, there’s a question and response section on Integral Naked, “is it ethical to kill bacteria?” Now, that’s some conscientiousness. I typically don’t eat flesh on weekends unless it’s on another human, but find that I absolutely need animal fat to get through the week working twelve hours a day. I am frustrated that the cafeteria I usually eat at lacks real vegetarian entrees, simply because it’s sort of ridiculous there. If they can cook meat and fish twice a day, they can cook beans, damnit.

   However, I find that I am now keenly aware of what I am doing when I eat a piece of meat, and find myself mediating on the life of the animal I’m about to eat. This may eventually drive me to vegetarianism once again.

   I used that one for months, too–I would start from the ending and work my way back. It was more an attempt to properly adjust the karma, which I don’t “believe” in. It felt more proper.

   Although, at some point it seems like you’ve got to simply accept that there’s suffering in the world and let life be lived.

   You’ll probably also have to accept that you are part pack-killer monkey, too.

   One point to consider might be that a number of voudoun rituals involve inflicting suffering on an animal before sacrificing it. One type of healing involves passing a gerbil, chicken, or other animal common in the Caribbean world over the sick and injured parts of the body and breaking the corresponding bone on the animal, then killing it. Bulls will often have their tails cut off and then get chased, goats will be castrated and have their beard and ears cut off before being bled, etc. All those rituals, however, differ from sick-kid type stuff in that they enclose the happenings in a ritual space. Unlike soulless suburban kids who listen to too much metal, none of the broke Hatian farmers have reason to torment chickens otherwise… Contrast this with Halal and Kosher, though. I don’t know the origins of Halal, but I do know that Kosher originates from the Levitical laws and the unwritten Temple traditions, which I’ve been told typically demanded that animals have their spines severed so as to prevent pain during the bleeding.

3. chiggles Says:
   April 30th, 2006 at 3:53 pm

   I’ve been wondering: if an animal spent it’s whole life suffering, and then you eat it, do you take on that suffering? Does that energy transfer to you somehow?

   Why the priviliging of the life of animals over that of plants? One cannot disagree with the fact that animals do suffer, and even moreso with modern agro-business style upbringing/slaughtering. But what’s to say plant life does not suffer through the stale poison of far-from-organic fertilizers and pesticides?

   Or is this a matter of plants not being able to suffer, cuz I’d say that idea is fucked, and though it may not seem so, has its roots in anthropocentrism in my view. Why? Well we can care more for animals because they’ve eyes and brains, just like us peoples. If this is a world where our genes are selfish, what is to say plants have nothing of the sort? When damaged they heal, when there is an obstacle, they grow around it.

   Let us not stop at plant “matter”, though. What of other matter? What about when one lives in a house made of all non-living and formerly living matter, nothing that grows? Could there be a transfer of energy from an animal who lived in a tree, sorrow for it when it was cut down, this sorrow living on in one’s floorboards or walls? What of the fungi and flora which that plant shaded, or the squirrel it crushed when it came down (assuming there are squirrels in forests so denuded), a person then purchases the soil where that tree once stood, throws it in their garden and grows vegetables there. What happens then?

   It’s a neat coincidence that you posted about vegetarianism, as last night I consumed my first veal ever. The entree sounded pretty awesome, then I got to part where veal was mentioned, which turned me off. Then I thought, what the fuck does it matter if its a young animal or a grown animal? Yeah, it IS caged up its entire life, but so is every chicken I purchase at the grocery store. It’s not a fact one can really be proud of, but life feeds on life, and such is the cycle of life. I cannot intentionally privilige animals over plants, nor will I say it’s unnatural for humans to eat meat (find a group of primitive persons who don’t consume any), and a number of primates eat meat, too.

4. Fell Says:
   May 1st, 2006 at 12:19 pm

   I’ve also read, Tim, that reducing the “vibration” of the heavier organics — such as meats — from the diet allows one to meditate more readily. Has something to do with not being affected by the density of the composition of the meat, speaking metaphorically.

5. alistair Says:
   May 1st, 2006 at 9:11 pm

   be thankful for the carnivorous nature of our ancestors to feed the big brains necessary to build our society. our athletes aren`t fueled by wheatgrass and mint tea either…………
   cleve baxter did research on the conscious nature of plants and left data showing awareness of pain, which is the crux of your philosophic issue with eating meat. his data says that you shouldn`t eat plants either considering the last few living moments of thier lives and the disregard our whole society shows for the abuse and outright torture of living and freshly dead plant matter. consider the ritual slaughter and display of the corpse of the common rose for instance………

6. channel null Says:
   May 1st, 2006 at 11:15 pm

   This is veering off topic, but is anyone familiar with radionic applications in agriculture? Apparently, it’s one the most successful application radionics has found and still used on an industrial level to ward of pests “naturally” by some farms and all it really involves is hooking a leaf up to an electric current.

7. Tim Boucher Says:
   May 2nd, 2006 at 11:18 am

   which is the crux of your philosophic issue with eating meat.

   I don’t have a philosophical problem with eating meat. I’ve just felt like shit lately and am trying to clean myself up. This is just one of a multi-pronged attack which also includes not drinking and a few other things…