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	<title>Comments on: Man &#038; God: The Bait &#038; Switch</title>
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	<link>http://www.timboucher.com/journal/2006/05/21/man-god-the-bait-switch/</link>
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	<pubDate>Sun, 22 Nov 2009 08:31:56 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Tim Boucher</title>
		<link>http://www.timboucher.com/journal/2006/05/21/man-god-the-bait-switch/comment-page-1/#comment-16280</link>
		<dc:creator>Tim Boucher</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 22 May 2006 21:47:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.timboucher.com/journal/2006/05/21/man-god-the-bait-switch/#comment-16280</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;I see the â€œbig issueâ€ over the Da Vinci Code as less an upset over the primariness of his human nature, but rather his survival past the â€œsacrificeâ€ of his crucifixion.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Wait, but that's not even in the Da Vinci Code, as far as I remember! Certainly not in the movie! They never say anything except that Magdalene fled and gave birth. They don't mention Jesus not being crucified.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>I see the â€œbig issueâ€ over the Da Vinci Code as less an upset over the primariness of his human nature, but rather his survival past the â€œsacrificeâ€ of his crucifixion.</p></blockquote>
<p>Wait, but that&#8217;s not even in the Da Vinci Code, as far as I remember! Certainly not in the movie! They never say anything except that Magdalene fled and gave birth. They don&#8217;t mention Jesus not being crucified.</p>
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		<title>By: alistair</title>
		<link>http://www.timboucher.com/journal/2006/05/21/man-god-the-bait-switch/comment-page-1/#comment-16279</link>
		<dc:creator>alistair</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 22 May 2006 18:18:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.timboucher.com/journal/2006/05/21/man-god-the-bait-switch/#comment-16279</guid>
		<description>you can only recognise what jesus was actually saying if you have it in your heart already. otherwise the dogma is your lord.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>you can only recognise what jesus was actually saying if you have it in your heart already. otherwise the dogma is your lord.</p>
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		<title>By: scott rassbach</title>
		<link>http://www.timboucher.com/journal/2006/05/21/man-god-the-bait-switch/comment-page-1/#comment-16278</link>
		<dc:creator>scott rassbach</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 22 May 2006 17:53:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.timboucher.com/journal/2006/05/21/man-god-the-bait-switch/#comment-16278</guid>
		<description>&lt;em&gt;The Templar Legacy&lt;/em&gt; takes a similar tack, in that Jesus was just a man, and this myth was built up around him.  It even has a bit of made up scripture called "The Testimony of Simon", which relates what the hell Peter was thinking, along with... Well, I won't spoil it.  It is a good read, if a little slow.

Anyway, it's an interesting book, better written than &lt;em&gt;DVC&lt;/em&gt;, and with more interesting characters, IMHO.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><em>The Templar Legacy</em> takes a similar tack, in that Jesus was just a man, and this myth was built up around him.  It even has a bit of made up scripture called &#8220;The Testimony of Simon&#8221;, which relates what the hell Peter was thinking, along with&#8230; Well, I won&#8217;t spoil it.  It is a good read, if a little slow.</p>
<p>Anyway, it&#8217;s an interesting book, better written than <em>DVC</em>, and with more interesting characters, IMHO.</p>
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		<title>By: Allison</title>
		<link>http://www.timboucher.com/journal/2006/05/21/man-god-the-bait-switch/comment-page-1/#comment-16275</link>
		<dc:creator>Allison</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 22 May 2006 15:30:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.timboucher.com/journal/2006/05/21/man-god-the-bait-switch/#comment-16275</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;...to worship Jesus the Risen Lord while ignoring just about everything He said.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

That seems like a fairly good sum-up of Christianity, as I know it. I don't necessarily even think Jesus was right about everything, so it's not that people don't follow his teachings I take issue with, but the hypocracy of calling yourself a Christian while ignoring most of what he said, that really gets me. The sheer un-Christian-ness of it all, geez!

Speaking of the crucifixion being a sham, I read an interesting bit about Jesus in a Seth/Jane Roberts book once. According to it, Jesus wasn't crucified at all. A man got crucified 'as' Jesus, but it was some crazy dude who thought he was Jesus. I don't remember how or why exactly he took Jesus' place, but there was quite a bit mentioned about it a new myth being created from higher levels of consciousness, and how it didn't matter who acted it out.  In any case, Jesus went into hiding while his religious-fanatic stunt double hung on the cross. The Resurrected Jesus was just the alive, real Jesus. He played along with what people believed, though, as that was part of his role in the creation of the new myth.

So that story goes anyway.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>&#8230;to worship Jesus the Risen Lord while ignoring just about everything He said.</p></blockquote>
<p>That seems like a fairly good sum-up of Christianity, as I know it. I don&#8217;t necessarily even think Jesus was right about everything, so it&#8217;s not that people don&#8217;t follow his teachings I take issue with, but the hypocracy of calling yourself a Christian while ignoring most of what he said, that really gets me. The sheer un-Christian-ness of it all, geez!</p>
<p>Speaking of the crucifixion being a sham, I read an interesting bit about Jesus in a Seth/Jane Roberts book once. According to it, Jesus wasn&#8217;t crucified at all. A man got crucified &#8216;as&#8217; Jesus, but it was some crazy dude who thought he was Jesus. I don&#8217;t remember how or why exactly he took Jesus&#8217; place, but there was quite a bit mentioned about it a new myth being created from higher levels of consciousness, and how it didn&#8217;t matter who acted it out.  In any case, Jesus went into hiding while his religious-fanatic stunt double hung on the cross. The Resurrected Jesus was just the alive, real Jesus. He played along with what people believed, though, as that was part of his role in the creation of the new myth.</p>
<p>So that story goes anyway.</p>
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		<title>By: slomo</title>
		<link>http://www.timboucher.com/journal/2006/05/21/man-god-the-bait-switch/comment-page-1/#comment-16273</link>
		<dc:creator>slomo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 22 May 2006 14:57:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.timboucher.com/journal/2006/05/21/man-god-the-bait-switch/#comment-16273</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;By saying the crucifixion was a scam, or at best, didnâ€™t result in his death, negates the foundation the church claims itâ€™s based on.&lt;/i&gt;

Yes, this is true.  Conflicts with the Nicean creed.  Which of course was one of many wrong turns made by the Xtian faith.

What is interesting about the whole Nicean thing is that it essentially permits Xtian faithfuls to worship Jesus the Risen Lord while ignoring just about everything He said.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>By saying the crucifixion was a scam, or at best, didnâ€™t result in his death, negates the foundation the church claims itâ€™s based on.</i></p>
<p>Yes, this is true.  Conflicts with the Nicean creed.  Which of course was one of many wrong turns made by the Xtian faith.</p>
<p>What is interesting about the whole Nicean thing is that it essentially permits Xtian faithfuls to worship Jesus the Risen Lord while ignoring just about everything He said.</p>
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		<title>By: Scherzo</title>
		<link>http://www.timboucher.com/journal/2006/05/21/man-god-the-bait-switch/comment-page-1/#comment-16272</link>
		<dc:creator>Scherzo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 22 May 2006 12:48:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.timboucher.com/journal/2006/05/21/man-god-the-bait-switch/#comment-16272</guid>
		<description>All I have to say is that this is the best damn commentary on the Da Vinci Code I have read.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>All I have to say is that this is the best damn commentary on the Da Vinci Code I have read.</p>
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		<title>By: Rob</title>
		<link>http://www.timboucher.com/journal/2006/05/21/man-god-the-bait-switch/comment-page-1/#comment-16074</link>
		<dc:creator>Rob</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 22 May 2006 08:32:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.timboucher.com/journal/2006/05/21/man-god-the-bait-switch/#comment-16074</guid>
		<description>I see the "big issue" over the Da Vinci Code as less an upset over the primariness of his human nature, but rather his survival past the "sacrifice" of his crucifixion.  By saying the crucifixion was a scam, or at best, didn't result in his death, negates the foundation the church claims it's based on.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I see the &#8220;big issue&#8221; over the Da Vinci Code as less an upset over the primariness of his human nature, but rather his survival past the &#8220;sacrifice&#8221; of his crucifixion.  By saying the crucifixion was a scam, or at best, didn&#8217;t result in his death, negates the foundation the church claims it&#8217;s based on.</p>
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		<title>By: prnsqlr</title>
		<link>http://www.timboucher.com/journal/2006/05/21/man-god-the-bait-switch/comment-page-1/#comment-16073</link>
		<dc:creator>prnsqlr</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 22 May 2006 05:02:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.timboucher.com/journal/2006/05/21/man-god-the-bait-switch/#comment-16073</guid>
		<description>&lt;a href="http://www.religioperennis.org/documents/cutsinger/mystery.pdf" rel="nofollow"&gt;The Mystery of Two Natures&lt;/a&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://www.religioperennis.org/documents/cutsinger/mystery.pdf" rel="nofollow">The Mystery of Two Natures</a></p>
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		<title>By: alistair</title>
		<link>http://www.timboucher.com/journal/2006/05/21/man-god-the-bait-switch/comment-page-1/#comment-16071</link>
		<dc:creator>alistair</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 22 May 2006 04:20:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.timboucher.com/journal/2006/05/21/man-god-the-bait-switch/#comment-16071</guid>
		<description>fungus? sure, why not............and i have divine in me too. and i have children.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>fungus? sure, why not&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;and i have divine in me too. and i have children.</p>
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		<title>By: slomo</title>
		<link>http://www.timboucher.com/journal/2006/05/21/man-god-the-bait-switch/comment-page-1/#comment-16070</link>
		<dc:creator>slomo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 22 May 2006 03:25:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.timboucher.com/journal/2006/05/21/man-god-the-bait-switch/#comment-16070</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;You find yourself calling Christians un-Christian when you donâ€™t even call yourself one.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

heh heh.  heh heh.  heh heh heh heh.  I see a lot of that on the left side of the blogosphere.  It even describes me a little bit.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>You find yourself calling Christians un-Christian when you donâ€™t even call yourself one.</p></blockquote>
<p>heh heh.  heh heh.  heh heh heh heh.  I see a lot of that on the left side of the blogosphere.  It even describes me a little bit.</p>
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		<title>By: slomo</title>
		<link>http://www.timboucher.com/journal/2006/05/21/man-god-the-bait-switch/comment-page-1/#comment-16069</link>
		<dc:creator>slomo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 22 May 2006 03:22:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.timboucher.com/journal/2006/05/21/man-god-the-bait-switch/#comment-16069</guid>
		<description>Why is it impossible for the divine to have sex and father children?

The issue of what it means to be divine and what it means to be human is very complex and profound.  But Christian reactionaries seem to be obsessed with the idea that a physically generative Jesus somehow detracts from His divinity.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Why is it impossible for the divine to have sex and father children?</p>
<p>The issue of what it means to be divine and what it means to be human is very complex and profound.  But Christian reactionaries seem to be obsessed with the idea that a physically generative Jesus somehow detracts from His divinity.</p>
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		<title>By: channel null</title>
		<link>http://www.timboucher.com/journal/2006/05/21/man-god-the-bait-switch/comment-page-1/#comment-16068</link>
		<dc:creator>channel null</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 22 May 2006 01:45:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.timboucher.com/journal/2006/05/21/man-god-the-bait-switch/#comment-16068</guid>
		<description>The Humanity vs. Divinity question on JC caused tremendous debate for about three hundred years in the early church--there were riots, battle royals in marketplaces, murders over the idea the Jesus was "all man" "all god" "half-god half man" "all god all man" etc. Even Gnosticism, and its resurrection in Cathar and Bogomenian practice, didn't come to a conclusion on this. So while it all seems like hogwash to me--I mean, come on, why are you going to stab a fruit vendor over him thinking that Uncle JC is "half god half man" and not all god all man?--but given the history of rage over split hairs, it's not surprising.

On Humanism, there seem to be strands to it that lead to a very Nietzschean space, so even if Xianity was the foundation for humanism, rationalism, renaissance etc., it can become very alien. People share an ancestor with fungus, after all.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The Humanity vs. Divinity question on JC caused tremendous debate for about three hundred years in the early church&#8211;there were riots, battle royals in marketplaces, murders over the idea the Jesus was &#8220;all man&#8221; &#8220;all god&#8221; &#8220;half-god half man&#8221; &#8220;all god all man&#8221; etc. Even Gnosticism, and its resurrection in Cathar and Bogomenian practice, didn&#8217;t come to a conclusion on this. So while it all seems like hogwash to me&#8211;I mean, come on, why are you going to stab a fruit vendor over him thinking that Uncle JC is &#8220;half god half man&#8221; and not all god all man?&#8211;but given the history of rage over split hairs, it&#8217;s not surprising.</p>
<p>On Humanism, there seem to be strands to it that lead to a very Nietzschean space, so even if Xianity was the foundation for humanism, rationalism, renaissance etc., it can become very alien. People share an ancestor with fungus, after all.</p>
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