Comments on: Lying to Tell the Truth http://www.timboucher.com/journal/2006/06/13/lying-to-tell-the-truth/ public domain playground. friendly entities welcome. Sun, 22 Nov 2009 13:11:54 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.7 hourly 1 By: By the power of their own imaginations - Pop Occulture Blog http://www.timboucher.com/journal/2006/06/13/lying-to-tell-the-truth/comment-page-1/#comment-17446 By the power of their own imaginations - Pop Occulture Blog Thu, 15 Jun 2006 01:28:30 +0000 http://www.timboucher.com/journal/2006/06/13/lying-to-tell-the-truth/#comment-17446 [...] A reader named Magic Grubb left a really awesome comment on a post earlier about conspiracy theory. And that comment reads (in part): a lot of times in conspiracy theory circles the “connections” end up going something like, “Oh shit! Guess what?! Some crazy-ass just tried to cross the Mexico/California border carrying 15 bloody, gore-encrusted machetes and a garbage bag full of dead babies!!!” [...] [...] A reader named Magic Grubb left a really awesome comment on a post earlier about conspiracy theory. And that comment reads (in part): a lot of times in conspiracy theory circles the “connections” end up going something like, “Oh shit! Guess what?! Some crazy-ass just tried to cross the Mexico/California border carrying 15 bloody, gore-encrusted machetes and a garbage bag full of dead babies!!!” [...]

]]> By: Magic Grubb http://www.timboucher.com/journal/2006/06/13/lying-to-tell-the-truth/comment-page-1/#comment-17427 Magic Grubb Wed, 14 Jun 2006 20:15:21 +0000 http://www.timboucher.com/journal/2006/06/13/lying-to-tell-the-truth/#comment-17427 That's a good analogy...the cloth/clothes one. I think what's fun about fiction is that you can break any and every rule that you'd normally have to follow when (honestly) exploring something like conspiracy theory. In the general public's eyes, conspiracy theory is nonsense. But at the same time, in the conspiracy theory community, things are often accepted with very little speculation or investigation....even when the opposite is claimed. So you've kinda got this group of people that might as well be reading fiction in a way. Earlier today I was reading your entry on self directed learning. You mentioned that you felt that the number one problem with conspiracy theory today is that it's essentially a self-directed learning program undertaken by people who have not been trained to learn like that. You also mentioned that the focus is always on connections...that you're always trying to figure out the who/where/what/when/why of it all. I'm sure you know as well as anyone that a lot of times in conspiracy theory circles the "connections" end up going something like, "Oh shit! Guess what?! Some crazy-ass just tried to cross the Mexico/California border carrying 15 bloody, gore-encrusted machetes and a garbage bag full of dead babies!!!" "Wait wait wait!!! Did he have a.....MILITARY RECORD???!!!" "......YES!" "Oh shit!" "Not only that, but he was a NAVAL OFFICER!! You know what that means!!" "Fuck yeah, I do! 'OFFICE OF THE NAVY'!! Which everyone knows doesn't actually exist!!!" "You know what else that means?" "Miiiiiiind controllllll!!!!" "MKULTRA!" (Actually the connection points would probably look more like when someone on one of the conspiracy forums figures out that the guy carrying the machetes and the dead babies had an uncle that was in the CIA back in the 60's.) Does it make a real connection? not really. We have no way of knowing what that uncle did in the CIA. He could have been a typist for all we know. It's a connection in that it anchors the balloon strings of these common aspects of conspiracy theory, (dead babies, murder, military records, the CIA, etc) to a central iron ring on the massive Fisherman's Wharf of conspiracy theory, but beyond that it's meaningless. And then the balloons just kind of float up there for a while, not really doing much of anything other than causing common citizens to glance at them, and the common conspiracy theorist to obsess over them. Then when the balloons eventually lose air and come back down to earth, the common citizen forgets and the common conspiracy theorist obsess even more over the inevitable cover-up. (....which of course was initiated by a gunman hiding in Coit Tower, shooting the balloons out of the sky with a long range rifle that had been perversely and magickally "blessed" by Michael Aquino during a horrific ritual involving kidnapped children wearing grey rubber alien suits.) My point is that I often wonder if the bulk of conspiracy theorists (myself included) wouldn't be happier and more productive and have a better chance at carving out this new reality everyone's always saying we need, if they'd write fiction rather than partake in the endless bong hit of conspiracy theory. I think a lot of people forget (I know I sure do) that their ability to gorge on information from prison planet or whatever is dwarfed by the power of their own imaginations. That’s a good analogy…the cloth/clothes one. I think what’s fun about fiction is that you can break any and every rule that you’d normally have to follow when (honestly) exploring something like conspiracy theory. In the general public’s eyes, conspiracy theory is nonsense. But at the same time, in the conspiracy theory community, things are often accepted with very little speculation or investigation….even when the opposite is claimed. So you’ve kinda got this group of people that might as well be reading fiction in a way.

Earlier today I was reading your entry on self directed learning. You mentioned that you felt that the number one problem with conspiracy theory today is that it’s essentially a self-directed learning program undertaken by people who have not been trained to learn like that. You also mentioned that the focus is always on connections…that you’re always trying to figure out the who/where/what/when/why of it all.

I’m sure you know as well as anyone that a lot of times in conspiracy theory circles the “connections” end up going something like, “Oh shit! Guess what?! Some crazy-ass just tried to cross the Mexico/California border carrying 15 bloody, gore-encrusted machetes and a garbage bag full of dead babies!!!”

“Wait wait wait!!! Did he have a…..MILITARY RECORD???!!!”

“……YES!”

“Oh shit!”

“Not only that, but he was a NAVAL OFFICER!! You know what that means!!”

“Fuck yeah, I do! ‘OFFICE OF THE NAVY’!! Which everyone knows doesn’t actually exist!!!”

“You know what else that means?”

“Miiiiiiind controllllll!!!!”

“MKULTRA!”

(Actually the connection points would probably look more like when someone on one of the conspiracy forums figures out that the guy carrying the machetes and the dead babies had an uncle that was in the CIA back in the 60’s.)

Does it make a real connection? not really. We have no way of knowing what that uncle did in the CIA. He could have been a typist for all we know. It’s a connection in that it anchors the balloon strings of these common aspects of conspiracy theory, (dead babies, murder, military records, the CIA, etc) to a central iron ring on the massive Fisherman’s Wharf of conspiracy theory, but beyond that it’s meaningless.

And then the balloons just kind of float up there for a while, not really doing much of anything other than causing common citizens to glance at them, and the common conspiracy theorist to obsess over them.

Then when the balloons eventually lose air and come back down to earth, the common citizen forgets and the common conspiracy theorist obsess even more over the inevitable cover-up. (….which of course was initiated by a gunman hiding in Coit Tower, shooting the balloons out of the sky with a long range rifle that had been perversely and magickally “blessed” by Michael Aquino during a horrific ritual involving kidnapped children wearing grey rubber alien suits.)

My point is that I often wonder if the bulk of conspiracy theorists (myself included) wouldn’t be happier and more productive and have a better chance at carving out this new reality everyone’s always saying we need, if they’d write fiction rather than partake in the endless bong hit of conspiracy theory. I think a lot of people forget (I know I sure do) that their ability to gorge on information from prison planet or whatever is dwarfed by the power of their own imaginations.

]]> By: Gary http://www.timboucher.com/journal/2006/06/13/lying-to-tell-the-truth/comment-page-1/#comment-17409 Gary Wed, 14 Jun 2006 02:28:03 +0000 http://www.timboucher.com/journal/2006/06/13/lying-to-tell-the-truth/#comment-17409 Tim, (this is in regards to yesterdays post) The way you speak of Seattle makes me quite envious. I am tempted to move there simply because of things such as - the way the light shines on the buildings downtown in the morning, the hammering man outside of the art musuem, the empty and broad expanses of road on Sunday's on the lower west side of town, salmon, beer and Dungeness crab, the bowling alleys and bed and breakfasts on the college side of town, because the coffee seems to taste better there and of course, a tatooed psychic named Faye and things like psychic theater. Please, please read some Tom Robbins. You are doing yourself a near disservice by not reading some of his work. Faye the Tatooed psychic is a character right out of his work and right out of Seattle, apparently. You could start with Half Asleep in Frog Pajamas or Another Roadside attraction. My personal favorite is Fierce Invalids Home from Hot Climates. Please? Tim, (this is in regards to yesterdays post)
The way you speak of Seattle makes me quite envious. I am tempted to move there simply because of things such as - the way the light shines on the buildings downtown in the morning, the hammering man outside of the art musuem, the empty and broad expanses of road on Sunday’s on the lower west side of town, salmon, beer and Dungeness crab, the bowling alleys and bed and breakfasts on the college side of town, because the coffee seems to taste better there and of course, a tatooed psychic named Faye and things like psychic theater.

Please, please read some Tom Robbins. You are doing yourself a near disservice by not reading some of his work. Faye the Tatooed psychic is a character right out of his work and right out of Seattle, apparently.

You could start with Half Asleep in Frog Pajamas or Another Roadside attraction. My personal favorite is Fierce Invalids Home from Hot Climates. Please?

]]> By: Tim Boucher http://www.timboucher.com/journal/2006/06/13/lying-to-tell-the-truth/comment-page-1/#comment-17408 Tim Boucher Tue, 13 Jun 2006 22:29:22 +0000 http://www.timboucher.com/journal/2006/06/13/lying-to-tell-the-truth/#comment-17408 Another thing I wanted to add to this sort of jumbled train of thought... A friend of mine was talking about the difference between writing fiction and the kind of weird speculative nonsense that I usually churn out. He described fiction as like having to actually *wear* an outfit that you made yourself, and see how it fits and holds up to wear and tear. Whereas the stuff I normally do is more just like the actual making of the clothing without ever necessarily putting it on... I thought that made a lot of sense Another thing I wanted to add to this sort of jumbled train of thought… A friend of mine was talking about the difference between writing fiction and the kind of weird speculative nonsense that I usually churn out. He described fiction as like having to actually *wear* an outfit that you made yourself, and see how it fits and holds up to wear and tear. Whereas the stuff I normally do is more just like the actual making of the clothing without ever necessarily putting it on… I thought that made a lot of sense

]]> By: Michael http://www.timboucher.com/journal/2006/06/13/lying-to-tell-the-truth/comment-page-1/#comment-17406 Michael Tue, 13 Jun 2006 22:13:22 +0000 http://www.timboucher.com/journal/2006/06/13/lying-to-tell-the-truth/#comment-17406 Yeah Tom, I definetly am going to write some for Conspricy Fiction. I think one of the oldest human impulses is to tell stories, every kid has told hyper-exagerated stories to test their friends gullibleness (is that a word?). I have plenty of ideas, and will submit them as soon as I write them down, which hopefully will be soon. <em>Hopefully</em>. Yeah Tom, I definetly am going to write some for Conspricy Fiction. I think one of the oldest human impulses is to tell stories, every kid has told hyper-exagerated stories to test their friends gullibleness (is that a word?). I have plenty of ideas, and will submit them as soon as I write them down, which hopefully will be soon. Hopefully.

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