National Geographic published some nice pics in a recent Celtic article, with a nice group of Irish sky clad revelers. Now there were some clothing-optional lasses i could leap around the beltane fires with! Yow!

Inner maturity is just an result of growing up. As I’ve grown older, I’ve felt a natural gravitation away from, for example, dinking around with toys, and an inclination toward more, I don’t know how else to put it, ‘grown up’ approaches to life and spirituality. Adults have their ‘toys’ too, sure, and we all play dress up, yes. It’s all relative and all that. But it seems the scale of these things should expand as we do.

So when I see adults still playing with dolls, I see that as a symbolic reflection of where they’re at in their own personal growth - and that is, still in a childhood stage, spiritually. As I grow in understanding, depth, confidence, power, etc. I desire bigger, better and more sophisticated symbols to reflect a bigger, better, more sophisticated ‘me.’

Change and evolution is natural. Yeah, maturity IS good, so long as it doesn’t squelch our essential childlike nature. But even with that said, every child has to grow up, just as summer has to turn into winter, and each is of a different nature. I just think humanity as a whole needs to grow the fuck up and move beyond dogma, ritual, and.. dolls.. and just trust who they are and do what they really want to do without all these symbolic crutches. But not everyone will agree, and that’s fine. Just my perspective, so take it as such.

OTOH you can get shitloads of “pagan” statues for way way cheaper and a hell of lot cooler than Rainbow-gathering Barbie and for a LOT less than $155

This goddess here is particularly appealing

This one too

Barbie is a modern day goddess already!

Great point, one which I also wanted to make but which fell by the wayside during all my complaining. An excellent example is that during vacation my little niece watched over and over again a movie where barbie starred as Rapunzel. I assume there are other movies featuring other folklore characters as well. Nevermind the simpler point that anything people invest a lot of energy into can and does become spiritualized.

I have somebody working on a great article about this for my Pop Occulture Magazine site: about the spiritual use of toys, and how they act as fetishes/totems

I feel like the particular imagery of paganism tends to trip me up in those efforts rather than assist me in getting where I need to go!

Yes! This is exactlyhow I feel when I find myself at church — certain peculiarities of the imagery and symbolic forms “trip me up” — that is, I find myself wasting energy getting defensive, re-orientating myself, etc. This is not what one’s religion/mythology should be about!

I just don’t see any room for “wasted energy” or “getting tripped up” when we’re seeking something as demanding as our quest for transendance. If a tradition puts a wrench in our gears, we should feel permitted and empowered to make a change.

This is my beef with inherited religion in today’s age — I feel that many folks are self-imposed prisoners to dogma and don’t realize that it is okay to be creative and come up with something new. This is exactly what Jesus, Mohammad, Moses, and other prophets of all time did!

Mythologically speaking, then, the power of the individual is inherent… but a self-recognition and realization of this power is all that holds it back.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barbie_Millicent_Roberts

I think people forget how much paganism there already is today disguised as other things.

but yeah, theres something spiritual to be said for having fun, no? as cheesy as it may be, if people enjoy it…… it seems relatively harmless. of course theres IMO better things to do with the $$, but fuck it, whatever, yuh know….

we all play dress up.

I wouldn’t wear it, I don’t think it’s nessisary, but if someone finds it helps them get into the right frame of mind for ritual, that’s what counts.

Absolutely agree!

Actually, some Christian myths appear to have been ripped off from early pagan religions.

I almost added that point in as a footnote. These things go round and round, don’t they?

I think the whole point of religious ‘costume’ IS the theater aspect- something that creates an atmosphere of ‘otherness.’

Yeah, I totally get that, and as I’m getting slightly more into ritual work on my own, I very much recognize the need to be able to use tools and tricks to get your into the right space mentally and emotionally. For me, I feel like the particular imagery of paganism tends to trip me up in those efforts rather than assist me in getting where I need to go!

Actually, some Christian myths appear to have been ripped off from early pagan religions. That’s not to say that modern pagans didn’t get them from Christianity, just that “ripping off” other religions is nothing new.

The clothes help set the tone, and they’re a way of establishing ’sacred space,’ if you will. Would you take a priest seriously if he turned up in dockers and a polo shirt? (In many ways, the silliest costume of all) The costume gives the priest instant identity and spiritual authority, even outside his faith. A Druid circlet may look silly to you because it’s unfamiliar, but it’s really no different.

The pagan costumes look silly because they’re out of context, not because they’re sillier than anything else.

I’m not one for costume (I used to feel silly enough dressing for stage plays), but I LOVE going to pagan conventions and seeing all the outfits-egyptian priestesses, ’sacred protstitutes,’ pantomime dancers in masks & capes, six-foot-five guys with antlers, the Vodou priestesses with their headwraps,and of course all the seventy year old guys with Dumbledore hats..

Introducing Hermetic Barbie!

I always found Pagan imagry to be kinda cheezy but it never really bothered me. Some of it is beautiful. The Celtic knotwork embroidered robes people wear to ritual is a perfect example. I wouldn’t wear it, I don’t think it’s nessisary, but if someone finds it helps them get into the right frame of mind for ritual, that’s what counts. I think it will only become a problem when people start claiming these things are manditory, as if your less of a Pagan if you don’t wear a crecent moon on your head. Lucky for me I havent met Pagans like that. As for marketing the Goddess, it would bother me less if it were more heartfelt. Selling an ugly piece of overpriced plastic is different than say, selling a beautiful piece of Goddess artwork that had heart and soul put into it, and convays what the artist feels is sacred in an honest light. If it were meant to be silly, that would be different.

While I see value to a fair amount of the philosophy (as I do with many world views), there has always been the taint of immaturity (sorry, my opinion) about much of the proceedings that has made me roll my eyes on more than one occassion. Having observed more than a few neo-pagan gatherings, I realize that many folks are sincere & long for ‘magic & mystery’ in their life. (However, I’m of the opinion that star & moon embroidary, laurel crowns, & druidic robes are not necessary… again, they can be tools… whatever helps somebody get into the right frame of mind, I s’pose. It’s just not my thang…)

A fair number - most assuredly not all (please no hate mail) - folks identify with the cosmetic attributes of a counterculture/ group without either understanding, internalizing, or fully espousing the beliefs of said group. Like most group endeavor, their are a few leaders & lot of followers.

With the New Agey, Neo-Pagan set, you get people that are overly-enamoured with the whimsy & woodland elf-chic dress-up potential of ‘pagan’ culture without fully grasping the philosophy, just as you get people that sing along to the insipid soft rock grooves at mega-churches & nod along to homilies… & still go home & live in a most un-Christ-like fashion. Christians, after all, do not have the market cornered when it comes to shallow belief & hypocrisy. It is a pervasive aspect of the human condition…

I have mixed feelings about the “cheezy costumes” factor in modern paganism. One the one hand… it looks ridiculous and I wouldn’t be caught in public dressed like that or with others dressed like that. (Unless I can excuse it by there being a Renaissance festival nearby or something.) On the other hand… I secretly (or not-so-secretly) think it’s kind of cool. I’m a nerd who grew up on Dungeons and Dragons. I can’t help it. It’s the part of me that mutters indignantly: “this isn’t my costume, they are spiritual tools, dammit!”

Also, how different is it from the kinds of “costumes” they wear in Catholic churches and most churches in general? Don’t you just want to say: “hey, Pope, what’s up with that weird hat?” It seems a minority of churches that doesn’t have the minister and/or choir in silly looking robes of some kind. And then Buddhists have their robes and begging bowls, Jews have their yarmulkes, etc., etc.

I think the costumes, the gimmicks, the props and such, regardless of religion, is all part of the theater of it all. I mean that in a good way. It’s about an experience that is apart from and above the mundane world. It’s about a different frame of mind and getting there is aided by these “crutches.” And like any other theater experience, different people dig different schticks.

But all the costumes and implements and everything just sort of makes me groan a little. There, I said it. The same thing happens to me at New Age stores … I recognize fully this is my own problem and probably stems from some kind of unrecognized deep-seated personal insecurity blah blah blah. But goddammit! A lot of this stuff is just cheesy!

Thank you! To me all that stuff I suppose can be fun if you identify with it, but it smacks of a lack of inner maturity somehow. And is it being used for fun or are people taking this stuff seriously? That’s even more cause for concern.. Is it such a terrible idea that at some point we grow up and move beyond playing with dolls? The ‘adultness’ of a doll doesn’t go up just because the price does. And would you spend $150 for a doll for your kid? I don’t know.. I just don’t know.. I don’t get it. And I’m going to have to second your “goddammit!”

Why the cheese? Why?? …I’m a bastard. Oh well, deal with it.