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	<title>Comments on: Do It Together!</title>
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	<pubDate>Sun, 22 Nov 2009 14:11:07 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Fatima</title>
		<link>http://www.timboucher.com/journal/2006/07/20/do-it-together/comment-page-1/#comment-18369</link>
		<dc:creator>Fatima</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 23 Jul 2006 05:30:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.timboucher.com/journal/2006/07/20/do-it-together/#comment-18369</guid>
		<description>Yep. Sorry for the bluntness.
Anyways, now I hope that your introduction intro the practical side of things will give you that added layer of comprehension that only experience can give.

F.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yep. Sorry for the bluntness.<br />
Anyways, now I hope that your introduction intro the practical side of things will give you that added layer of comprehension that only experience can give.</p>
<p>F.</p>
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		<title>By: Tim Boucher</title>
		<link>http://www.timboucher.com/journal/2006/07/20/do-it-together/comment-page-1/#comment-18365</link>
		<dc:creator>Tim Boucher</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 23 Jul 2006 03:59:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.timboucher.com/journal/2006/07/20/do-it-together/#comment-18365</guid>
		<description>Well shit... that certainly doesn't soften the blow. I don't know what to say to you about all that. All I can really do I guess is be honest about what I am experiencing right at this moment and accept whatever wrong I've done in the past as simply a part of what it took to get me here. You're at all times encouraged to take &lt;strong&gt;everything&lt;/strong&gt; said on this site with 1,000,000 million grains of salt.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well shit&#8230; that certainly doesn&#8217;t soften the blow. I don&#8217;t know what to say to you about all that. All I can really do I guess is be honest about what I am experiencing right at this moment and accept whatever wrong I&#8217;ve done in the past as simply a part of what it took to get me here. You&#8217;re at all times encouraged to take <strong>everything</strong> said on this site with 1,000,000 million grains of salt.</p>
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		<title>By: Fatima</title>
		<link>http://www.timboucher.com/journal/2006/07/20/do-it-together/comment-page-1/#comment-18363</link>
		<dc:creator>Fatima</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 23 Jul 2006 02:47:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.timboucher.com/journal/2006/07/20/do-it-together/#comment-18363</guid>
		<description>Wow!

That's not what I meant, my comments were not coming from that angle.

I kind of follwow your blog, and in the past you have been quite harsh and pretty arrogant yourself with quite a few occult groups (the ceremonial magicians, tarot people etc.) to the point that more than once, you got under "attack" for beeing a "wannabe" an armchair occultist. Remember? 
You answered back saying that you were the occult boogie jumper. 
So far, all is fine with me, to each their own, I respect all perspectives.

But all the sudden, you meet one santero, probably got some headwash, bano, despojo or whatever similarly pedestrian ritual plus a reading that was probably accurate (as they should all be) and an ebo to do, and there you're all wowed away... Nothing wrong with that either. But from the tone of all your writings, I had the impression that you were beyond that point. A kind of been there, done that type... And I am realising that you are not. That's all... 

And that's ok too. Like you all say, it's probably *my* problem more than anything else.
I just have to take your posts with 1000 tons of salt in the future. I really thought for some reason that you had *some* experience, had dabbled here and there and decided to go your own way, your own style, your own practice.
Instead here you are saliving after what was probably basic magic 101!! After all the telling off and criticising you have done in the past, I had imagined that you knew more of what you were talking about.

Anyways, again, nothing wrong with you. I guess I am surprised that's all.

F.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wow!</p>
<p>That&#8217;s not what I meant, my comments were not coming from that angle.</p>
<p>I kind of follwow your blog, and in the past you have been quite harsh and pretty arrogant yourself with quite a few occult groups (the ceremonial magicians, tarot people etc.) to the point that more than once, you got under &#8220;attack&#8221; for beeing a &#8220;wannabe&#8221; an armchair occultist. Remember?<br />
You answered back saying that you were the occult boogie jumper.<br />
So far, all is fine with me, to each their own, I respect all perspectives.</p>
<p>But all the sudden, you meet one santero, probably got some headwash, bano, despojo or whatever similarly pedestrian ritual plus a reading that was probably accurate (as they should all be) and an ebo to do, and there you&#8217;re all wowed away&#8230; Nothing wrong with that either. But from the tone of all your writings, I had the impression that you were beyond that point. A kind of been there, done that type&#8230; And I am realising that you are not. That&#8217;s all&#8230; </p>
<p>And that&#8217;s ok too. Like you all say, it&#8217;s probably *my* problem more than anything else.<br />
I just have to take your posts with 1000 tons of salt in the future. I really thought for some reason that you had *some* experience, had dabbled here and there and decided to go your own way, your own style, your own practice.<br />
Instead here you are saliving after what was probably basic magic 101!! After all the telling off and criticising you have done in the past, I had imagined that you knew more of what you were talking about.</p>
<p>Anyways, again, nothing wrong with you. I guess I am surprised that&#8217;s all.</p>
<p>F.</p>
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		<title>By: alistair</title>
		<link>http://www.timboucher.com/journal/2006/07/20/do-it-together/comment-page-1/#comment-18350</link>
		<dc:creator>alistair</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 22 Jul 2006 21:30:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.timboucher.com/journal/2006/07/20/do-it-together/#comment-18350</guid>
		<description>i can`t speak for fatima.........it was my view of how some see groups and the dissolution of the vigourous self. just my opinion.
we are no doubt a group which is in it`s self part of another group of likeminded, or should i say similar minded, individuals.
our individuality is never jeopardised in a group unless that group is intent on attackinig individuality. that would be called a cult.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>i can`t speak for fatima&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;it was my view of how some see groups and the dissolution of the vigourous self. just my opinion.<br />
we are no doubt a group which is in it`s self part of another group of likeminded, or should i say similar minded, individuals.<br />
our individuality is never jeopardised in a group unless that group is intent on attackinig individuality. that would be called a cult.</p>
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		<title>By: Tim Boucher</title>
		<link>http://www.timboucher.com/journal/2006/07/20/do-it-together/comment-page-1/#comment-18349</link>
		<dc:creator>Tim Boucher</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 22 Jul 2006 20:54:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.timboucher.com/journal/2006/07/20/do-it-together/#comment-18349</guid>
		<description>I'm not sure why people think being part of a group means you sacrifice your individuality. If anything, it's the opposite, I think. Your uniqueness is celebrated within a group, rather than ostracizing you and removing you from it. 

And if that's what Fatima is reacting to, this idea that being part of a group makes you weak, then guess what we all are on this website? A group! Whoops!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m not sure why people think being part of a group means you sacrifice your individuality. If anything, it&#8217;s the opposite, I think. Your uniqueness is celebrated within a group, rather than ostracizing you and removing you from it. </p>
<p>And if that&#8217;s what Fatima is reacting to, this idea that being part of a group makes you weak, then guess what we all are on this website? A group! Whoops!</p>
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		<title>By: alistair</title>
		<link>http://www.timboucher.com/journal/2006/07/20/do-it-together/comment-page-1/#comment-18348</link>
		<dc:creator>alistair</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 22 Jul 2006 20:47:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.timboucher.com/journal/2006/07/20/do-it-together/#comment-18348</guid>
		<description>some see wanting to be part of a group as weak. the rugged individualist is a product of consumerism. as much as i admire ayn rand for her scope of thought regarding the motivation of the spirit, i think that too much individuality is merely selfishness in disguise.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>some see wanting to be part of a group as weak. the rugged individualist is a product of consumerism. as much as i admire ayn rand for her scope of thought regarding the motivation of the spirit, i think that too much individuality is merely selfishness in disguise.</p>
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		<title>By: Tim Boucher</title>
		<link>http://www.timboucher.com/journal/2006/07/20/do-it-together/comment-page-1/#comment-18347</link>
		<dc:creator>Tim Boucher</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 22 Jul 2006 20:31:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.timboucher.com/journal/2006/07/20/do-it-together/#comment-18347</guid>
		<description>Wow, harsh words for no specific reason that I can really make out. What have I done to violate you besides sharing freely of my experiences day in and day out? It's always difficult I guess when people don't live up to the identities we build for one another, huh? Then we need to resort to name-calling and brow-beating in an attempt to mash the other person back into the mold that they are climbing out of in our minds.

I really do wish I understood what was cheesy about the idea that existing within a community is somehow paramount to us as social beings?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wow, harsh words for no specific reason that I can really make out. What have I done to violate you besides sharing freely of my experiences day in and day out? It&#8217;s always difficult I guess when people don&#8217;t live up to the identities we build for one another, huh? Then we need to resort to name-calling and brow-beating in an attempt to mash the other person back into the mold that they are climbing out of in our minds.</p>
<p>I really do wish I understood what was cheesy about the idea that existing within a community is somehow paramount to us as social beings?</p>
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		<title>By: alistair</title>
		<link>http://www.timboucher.com/journal/2006/07/20/do-it-together/comment-page-1/#comment-18346</link>
		<dc:creator>alistair</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 22 Jul 2006 18:37:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.timboucher.com/journal/2006/07/20/do-it-together/#comment-18346</guid>
		<description>define cheeseness please...........</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>define cheeseness please&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;..</p>
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		<title>By: Fatima</title>
		<link>http://www.timboucher.com/journal/2006/07/20/do-it-together/comment-page-1/#comment-18345</link>
		<dc:creator>Fatima</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 22 Jul 2006 13:53:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.timboucher.com/journal/2006/07/20/do-it-together/#comment-18345</guid>
		<description>I am surprised to find such amount of cheesiness in your recent talk... I cannot beleive it is this mere santeria (Lukumi) stuff that is putting you into such a state. Unless you have been through initiation or smth which by the way I absolutely do not wish for your cause it would mean you had been deep screwed by a pro crook...
The only other explaination I see is that you *really* have little &lt;strong&gt;concrete&lt;/strong&gt; experience of anything occult, so the first despojo and limpieza is wowing you away...
Well, it was about time my favourite armchair magician got his butt out of the couch and started practicing for real...
No more boogie-jumping it seems...

F.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am surprised to find such amount of cheesiness in your recent talk&#8230; I cannot beleive it is this mere santeria (Lukumi) stuff that is putting you into such a state. Unless you have been through initiation or smth which by the way I absolutely do not wish for your cause it would mean you had been deep screwed by a pro crook&#8230;<br />
The only other explaination I see is that you *really* have little <strong>concrete</strong> experience of anything occult, so the first despojo and limpieza is wowing you away&#8230;<br />
Well, it was about time my favourite armchair magician got his butt out of the couch and started practicing for real&#8230;<br />
No more boogie-jumping it seems&#8230;</p>
<p>F.</p>
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		<title>By: Cumberland</title>
		<link>http://www.timboucher.com/journal/2006/07/20/do-it-together/comment-page-1/#comment-18343</link>
		<dc:creator>Cumberland</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 22 Jul 2006 04:34:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.timboucher.com/journal/2006/07/20/do-it-together/#comment-18343</guid>
		<description>In general, I tend to try to solve most problems on my own.  However, even 'on my own' would include knowledge and experiences that were gained through interactions with others.  Esoterically speaking though, you do part of the work as 'The Hermit' and part in combination with others, like the lesson in the 'The Lovers'.  Hell, it takes two human beings to make another being - there's a maxim example of 'doing it together' - literally!  

Recently, this idea that you've posed for conversation, DIT, came through as a more valid method for approaching a dream interpretation that was hard for me to ponder 'on my own'.   No book covered it - so the best approach was to appeal to the living knowledge sphere of the Occult community.  

There's some truth to that old adage 'No man is an island', and even more so, the theme you see in Gnosticism and other areas that we are cells in one big ole body of God.  As above, so below, no doubt.  

I still think it's a balance between the two that we are learning during this age.  The middle pillar would be a good analogy of that 'in-between' system.  

Yeah, let us know more about this Santeria experience soon - that too sounds interesting ...

One love!
Will</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In general, I tend to try to solve most problems on my own.  However, even &#8216;on my own&#8217; would include knowledge and experiences that were gained through interactions with others.  Esoterically speaking though, you do part of the work as &#8216;The Hermit&#8217; and part in combination with others, like the lesson in the &#8216;The Lovers&#8217;.  Hell, it takes two human beings to make another being - there&#8217;s a maxim example of &#8216;doing it together&#8217; - literally!  </p>
<p>Recently, this idea that you&#8217;ve posed for conversation, DIT, came through as a more valid method for approaching a dream interpretation that was hard for me to ponder &#8216;on my own&#8217;.   No book covered it - so the best approach was to appeal to the living knowledge sphere of the Occult community.  </p>
<p>There&#8217;s some truth to that old adage &#8216;No man is an island&#8217;, and even more so, the theme you see in Gnosticism and other areas that we are cells in one big ole body of God.  As above, so below, no doubt.  </p>
<p>I still think it&#8217;s a balance between the two that we are learning during this age.  The middle pillar would be a good analogy of that &#8216;in-between&#8217; system.  </p>
<p>Yeah, let us know more about this Santeria experience soon - that too sounds interesting &#8230;</p>
<p>One love!<br />
Will</p>
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		<title>By: channel null</title>
		<link>http://www.timboucher.com/journal/2006/07/20/do-it-together/comment-page-1/#comment-18342</link>
		<dc:creator>channel null</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 22 Jul 2006 03:50:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.timboucher.com/journal/2006/07/20/do-it-together/#comment-18342</guid>
		<description>Check out some Australian-school future studies lit sometime, particularly Ramos's stuff. He makes the exact point, that it's necessary for individuals to begin to consider their "inputs" and "outputs" as self in order to realize they belong, and by extension are, greater than just some meat vehicle that sometimes eats stuff.

I'm reposting something Rev Max wrote over at Zac's site re: your mojo perscription bag: 

&lt;blockquote&gt;"magic is sowing seeds, into the future, to see what grows

and you need roots to do that

to sow the seeds, you need roots

to be tapped into the older thing

if you donâ€™t have the roots, you donâ€™t have the lever arm to sow with, to cast the seeds

thus, rootwork is not only about plant roots but also human roots

it is by grabbing onto the earth with both the plant roots and the ancestral ones that you can reach into the future and pull the toward yourself the one that you want, i think

because the dead travel fast and they do care, we just need to be like Nokis Kazantskinas (sp?) in saviours of god

pour a bucket of blood and see who comes forth to speak

work with the strong shades and dismiss the forlorn ones

because they are just as eager to preseve this particular planetary game preserve as we are

Other wise, no roots, no leverage, no ability to sow, cut off, controlled, hypnotized by the idiot box"&lt;/blockquote&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Check out some Australian-school future studies lit sometime, particularly Ramos&#8217;s stuff. He makes the exact point, that it&#8217;s necessary for individuals to begin to consider their &#8220;inputs&#8221; and &#8220;outputs&#8221; as self in order to realize they belong, and by extension are, greater than just some meat vehicle that sometimes eats stuff.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m reposting something Rev Max wrote over at Zac&#8217;s site re: your mojo perscription bag: </p>
<blockquote><p>&#8220;magic is sowing seeds, into the future, to see what grows</p>
<p>and you need roots to do that</p>
<p>to sow the seeds, you need roots</p>
<p>to be tapped into the older thing</p>
<p>if you donâ€™t have the roots, you donâ€™t have the lever arm to sow with, to cast the seeds</p>
<p>thus, rootwork is not only about plant roots but also human roots</p>
<p>it is by grabbing onto the earth with both the plant roots and the ancestral ones that you can reach into the future and pull the toward yourself the one that you want, i think</p>
<p>because the dead travel fast and they do care, we just need to be like Nokis Kazantskinas (sp?) in saviours of god</p>
<p>pour a bucket of blood and see who comes forth to speak</p>
<p>work with the strong shades and dismiss the forlorn ones</p>
<p>because they are just as eager to preseve this particular planetary game preserve as we are</p>
<p>Other wise, no roots, no leverage, no ability to sow, cut off, controlled, hypnotized by the idiot box&#8221;</p></blockquote>
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		<title>By: alistair</title>
		<link>http://www.timboucher.com/journal/2006/07/20/do-it-together/comment-page-1/#comment-18339</link>
		<dc:creator>alistair</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Jul 2006 14:47:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.timboucher.com/journal/2006/07/20/do-it-together/#comment-18339</guid>
		<description>the re-integration  of the urban individual into the tribal community. marshall mcluhan talks about the re-tribalisation of culture via media and specifically the computer because of how it allows us to do things together. just imagine trying to share letters mailed via regular mail with people from around the world. i have a world map on my blog that has dots on it from all over the globe indicating page views. the map is provided by shinystat and is a great resource.
tim, you offer your scolarship and computer skills as a barter into the community at large, as i wish i could, because we want to be connected to the others in our community. technological society has done a good job of fragmenting us all and we go into our own cubicles each night like puppies into our boxes.........yet our natural urge is to run and climb and play together.
the shaman`s role in the community is a guide back to that state.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>the re-integration  of the urban individual into the tribal community. marshall mcluhan talks about the re-tribalisation of culture via media and specifically the computer because of how it allows us to do things together. just imagine trying to share letters mailed via regular mail with people from around the world. i have a world map on my blog that has dots on it from all over the globe indicating page views. the map is provided by shinystat and is a great resource.<br />
tim, you offer your scolarship and computer skills as a barter into the community at large, as i wish i could, because we want to be connected to the others in our community. technological society has done a good job of fragmenting us all and we go into our own cubicles each night like puppies into our boxes&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;yet our natural urge is to run and climb and play together.<br />
the shaman`s role in the community is a guide back to that state.</p>
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