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	<title>Comments on: Internalizing Propaganda</title>
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	<pubDate>Sun, 08 Nov 2009 13:45:59 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Gnomely</title>
		<link>http://www.timboucher.com/journal/2006/07/26/internalizing-propaganda/comment-page-1/#comment-18488</link>
		<dc:creator>Gnomely</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 27 Jul 2006 21:35:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.timboucher.com/journal/2006/07/26/internalizing-propaganda/#comment-18488</guid>
		<description>Well, the problem with being a random &#38; stream of conscious person is one is always sure what  they are saying is largely irrelevant.

THe mention of Bernay reminded me of Noam Chomsky which in turn reminded me of  The Corporation and in return Naomi Klein- my favorite feminist in the world. And even though I have no theory I like feminist film theory.  Horror films are my obsession and of course in horror films the female is often represents a monstrous feminine. 
blockquote&#62;As a form of modern defilement rite, the horror film attempts to separate out the symbolic order from all that threatens its stability, particularly the mother and all that her universe signifies.
 and in horror films you see  "a potentially subversive recognition of the power and potency of a nonphallic sexuality" so again I make no attempts of not being inane.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, the problem with being a random &amp; stream of conscious person is one is always sure what  they are saying is largely irrelevant.</p>
<p>THe mention of Bernay reminded me of Noam Chomsky which in turn reminded me of  The Corporation and in return Naomi Klein- my favorite feminist in the world. And even though I have no theory I like feminist film theory.  Horror films are my obsession and of course in horror films the female is often represents a monstrous feminine.<br />
blockquote&gt;As a form of modern defilement rite, the horror film attempts to separate out the symbolic order from all that threatens its stability, particularly the mother and all that her universe signifies.<br />
 and in horror films you see  &#8220;a potentially subversive recognition of the power and potency of a nonphallic sexuality&#8221; so again I make no attempts of not being inane.</p>
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		<title>By: Tim Boucher</title>
		<link>http://www.timboucher.com/journal/2006/07/26/internalizing-propaganda/comment-page-1/#comment-18483</link>
		<dc:creator>Tim Boucher</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 27 Jul 2006 19:35:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.timboucher.com/journal/2006/07/26/internalizing-propaganda/#comment-18483</guid>
		<description>Gnomely: this is the thread I got out of what you were saying. Were you intending to draw these two things together?

Feminism: where did it come from? What were its cultural antecedents? Who created them and for what reason? In some sense, you could quite possibly point to film noir and its depiction of the female flouting conventional roles as a strong cultural precursor. As to the other questions: well, don't forget that Edward Bernays was one of the pivotal figures behind "Liberty Torches" or conflating the Suffragette movement to female independence and ultimately used the cigarette (on behalf of his corporate clients) as a symbol of that. He also believed the cigarette was for women a subconscious symbol of the penis: penis envy solved. Bernays, not surprisingly, was also the man who invented product placement in movies. 

Pieces coming together at all yet?

Great essay by Hakim Bey, by the way!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Gnomely: this is the thread I got out of what you were saying. Were you intending to draw these two things together?</p>
<p>Feminism: where did it come from? What were its cultural antecedents? Who created them and for what reason? In some sense, you could quite possibly point to film noir and its depiction of the female flouting conventional roles as a strong cultural precursor. As to the other questions: well, don&#8217;t forget that Edward Bernays was one of the pivotal figures behind &#8220;Liberty Torches&#8221; or conflating the Suffragette movement to female independence and ultimately used the cigarette (on behalf of his corporate clients) as a symbol of that. He also believed the cigarette was for women a subconscious symbol of the penis: penis envy solved. Bernays, not surprisingly, was also the man who invented product placement in movies. </p>
<p>Pieces coming together at all yet?</p>
<p>Great essay by Hakim Bey, by the way!</p>
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		<title>By: prunes</title>
		<link>http://www.timboucher.com/journal/2006/07/26/internalizing-propaganda/comment-page-1/#comment-18467</link>
		<dc:creator>prunes</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 27 Jul 2006 14:48:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.timboucher.com/journal/2006/07/26/internalizing-propaganda/#comment-18467</guid>
		<description>Oh, thanks! I've been looking for Propaganda for forever, I can't even get it through the library!

Something by Hakim Bey: Boycott Cop Culture!
http://www.left-bank.org/bey/resoluti.htm</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh, thanks! I&#8217;ve been looking for Propaganda for forever, I can&#8217;t even get it through the library!</p>
<p>Something by Hakim Bey: Boycott Cop Culture!<br />
<a href="http://www.left-bank.org/bey/resoluti.htm" rel="nofollow"></a><a href='http://www.left-bank.org/bey/resoluti.htm'>http://www.left-bank.org/bey/resoluti.htm</a></p>
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		<title>By: Gnomely</title>
		<link>http://www.timboucher.com/journal/2006/07/26/internalizing-propaganda/comment-page-1/#comment-18463</link>
		<dc:creator>Gnomely</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 27 Jul 2006 05:36:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.timboucher.com/journal/2006/07/26/internalizing-propaganda/#comment-18463</guid>
		<description>I first heard of Bernay after watching Noam Chomsky in Manufacturing Consent- a must see film! And the director Mark Achbar also directed the movie The Corporation, in which Naomi Klein is interviewed. She is the author of No Logo a great book which influenced the band RadioHead.

"The pivotal moment politically for me was in December 1989, when there was a massacre at the University of Montreal. A man went into the engineering school - he had failed to get a place - and he separated the men from the women, shouted, 'You're all a bunch of fucking feminists', and opened fire. He killed 14 women. ... It was a cataclysmic moment. It politicized us enormously. Of course, after that you call yourself a feminist." Naomi Klein
   
  One of the things interesting in film noir is that the woman is sexually subversive.
&lt;blockquote&gt;The quintessential femme fatale of film noir uses her sexual attractiveness and ruthless cunning to manipulate men in order to gain power, independence, money, or all three at once. She rejects the conventional roles of devoted wife and loving mother that mainstream society prescribes for women, and in the end her transgression of social norms leads to her own destruction and the destruction of the men who are attracted to her.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

http://www.lib.berkeley.edu/MRC/noir/pp-all.html</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I first heard of Bernay after watching Noam Chomsky in Manufacturing Consent- a must see film! And the director Mark Achbar also directed the movie The Corporation, in which Naomi Klein is interviewed. She is the author of No Logo a great book which influenced the band RadioHead.</p>
<p>&#8220;The pivotal moment politically for me was in December 1989, when there was a massacre at the University of Montreal. A man went into the engineering school - he had failed to get a place - and he separated the men from the women, shouted, &#8216;You&#8217;re all a bunch of fucking feminists&#8217;, and opened fire. He killed 14 women. &#8230; It was a cataclysmic moment. It politicized us enormously. Of course, after that you call yourself a feminist.&#8221; Naomi Klein</p>
<p>  One of the things interesting in film noir is that the woman is sexually subversive.</p>
<blockquote><p>The quintessential femme fatale of film noir uses her sexual attractiveness and ruthless cunning to manipulate men in order to gain power, independence, money, or all three at once. She rejects the conventional roles of devoted wife and loving mother that mainstream society prescribes for women, and in the end her transgression of social norms leads to her own destruction and the destruction of the men who are attracted to her.</p></blockquote>
<p><a href="http://www.lib.berkeley.edu/MRC/noir/pp-all.html" rel="nofollow"></a><a href='http://www.lib.berkeley.edu/MRC/noir/pp-all.html'>http://www.lib.berkeley.edu/MRC/noir/pp-all.html</a></p>
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		<title>By: Tim Boucher</title>
		<link>http://www.timboucher.com/journal/2006/07/26/internalizing-propaganda/comment-page-1/#comment-18455</link>
		<dc:creator>Tim Boucher</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 27 Jul 2006 00:41:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.timboucher.com/journal/2006/07/26/internalizing-propaganda/#comment-18455</guid>
		<description>Another quote worth introducing in this conversation which I also plan to build on later. It is &lt;a href="http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Edward_Bernays" rel="nofollow"&gt;from Edward Bernays' book&lt;/a&gt;, Propaganda - which was coincidentally published only one year after talking movies were released to the public:

&lt;blockquote&gt;In Propaganda, his most important book, Bernays argued that the scientific manipulation of public opinion was necessary to overcome chaos and conflict in society: "The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. ... We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of. This is a logical result of the way in which our democratic society is organized. Vast numbers of human beings must cooperate in this manner if they are to live together as a smoothly functioning society. ... In almost every act of our daily lives, whether in the sphere of politics or business, in our social conduct or our ethical thinking, we are dominated by the relatively small number of persons ... who understand the mental processes and social patterns of the masses. It is they who pull the wires which control the public mind."&lt;/blockquote&gt;

I also found a source online where you can downlaod a &lt;a href="http://militant.org/files/propaganda.pdf" rel="nofollow"&gt;PDF of this book&lt;/a&gt;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Another quote worth introducing in this conversation which I also plan to build on later. It is <a href="http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Edward_Bernays" rel="nofollow">from Edward Bernays&#8217; book</a>, Propaganda - which was coincidentally published only one year after talking movies were released to the public:</p>
<blockquote><p>In Propaganda, his most important book, Bernays argued that the scientific manipulation of public opinion was necessary to overcome chaos and conflict in society: &#8220;The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. &#8230; We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of. This is a logical result of the way in which our democratic society is organized. Vast numbers of human beings must cooperate in this manner if they are to live together as a smoothly functioning society. &#8230; In almost every act of our daily lives, whether in the sphere of politics or business, in our social conduct or our ethical thinking, we are dominated by the relatively small number of persons &#8230; who understand the mental processes and social patterns of the masses. It is they who pull the wires which control the public mind.&#8221;</p></blockquote>
<p>I also found a source online where you can downlaod a <a href="http://militant.org/files/propaganda.pdf" rel="nofollow">PDF of this book</a>.</p>
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