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	<title>Comments on: Busting Adbusters</title>
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	<pubDate>Mon, 23 Nov 2009 01:43:42 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Drew</title>
		<link>http://www.timboucher.com/journal/2006/08/21/busting-adbusters/comment-page-1/#comment-19281</link>
		<dc:creator>Drew</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Aug 2006 02:39:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.timboucher.com/journal/2006/08/21/busting-adbusters/#comment-19281</guid>
		<description>I don't understand how Adbusters can keep churning out magazines based on the same old tired one-liner of throwing in some cutsey wordplay to make you feel like your better than everybody else becuase you're smart enought to see right through the evil marketing machine. Big F-in' deal.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t understand how Adbusters can keep churning out magazines based on the same old tired one-liner of throwing in some cutsey wordplay to make you feel like your better than everybody else becuase you&#8217;re smart enought to see right through the evil marketing machine. Big F-in&#8217; deal.</p>
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		<title>By: Justin Hart</title>
		<link>http://www.timboucher.com/journal/2006/08/21/busting-adbusters/comment-page-1/#comment-19274</link>
		<dc:creator>Justin Hart</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Aug 2006 18:08:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.timboucher.com/journal/2006/08/21/busting-adbusters/#comment-19274</guid>
		<description>Everything I read, everything I think, makes me feel guiltier and guiltier and less and less sure of what the fuck I should be doing with my life. I feel like no matter what I do, I will be &lt;em&gt;living wrong&lt;/em&gt;. How dare I not do whatever it is this or that person thinks I ought to? How do I live with myself, knowing that I continue in sin, forsaking the &lt;em&gt;one obvious solution&lt;/em&gt; that everybody knows but nobody can agree on. Can't helpt thinking that God is gonna throw me in hell for at least a couple millennia no matter what I do.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Everything I read, everything I think, makes me feel guiltier and guiltier and less and less sure of what the fuck I should be doing with my life. I feel like no matter what I do, I will be <em>living wrong</em>. How dare I not do whatever it is this or that person thinks I ought to? How do I live with myself, knowing that I continue in sin, forsaking the <em>one obvious solution</em> that everybody knows but nobody can agree on. Can&#8217;t helpt thinking that God is gonna throw me in hell for at least a couple millennia no matter what I do.</p>
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		<title>By: slomo</title>
		<link>http://www.timboucher.com/journal/2006/08/21/busting-adbusters/comment-page-1/#comment-19272</link>
		<dc:creator>slomo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Aug 2006 11:09:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.timboucher.com/journal/2006/08/21/busting-adbusters/#comment-19272</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;I would not be reading Adbusters, Iâ€™d be emigrating, or going up to the hills to live in a shack where there are no ads, no TV, no magazines, no billboards: only the sky and the earth. And if I could not do that physically, I would do it spiritually.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

This is exactly the right response, and the only response.  Most readers of PopOcculture are probably already on board with it, but the vast American public -- in particular the left/liberal wing of it -- are ignorant or hostile to any kind of spiritual solution.  Unfortunately, there is nowhere to emigrate physically, and the "simple life" of living in the hills is an option only if you already have a lot of cash on hand.  For the middle and lower classes, we can only escape spiritually.  This requires work and difficult choices, neither of which Americans are used to or like.  And it requires a kind of faith, which has been bled out of the American left.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>I would not be reading Adbusters, Iâ€™d be emigrating, or going up to the hills to live in a shack where there are no ads, no TV, no magazines, no billboards: only the sky and the earth. And if I could not do that physically, I would do it spiritually.</p></blockquote>
<p>This is exactly the right response, and the only response.  Most readers of PopOcculture are probably already on board with it, but the vast American public &#8212; in particular the left/liberal wing of it &#8212; are ignorant or hostile to any kind of spiritual solution.  Unfortunately, there is nowhere to emigrate physically, and the &#8220;simple life&#8221; of living in the hills is an option only if you already have a lot of cash on hand.  For the middle and lower classes, we can only escape spiritually.  This requires work and difficult choices, neither of which Americans are used to or like.  And it requires a kind of faith, which has been bled out of the American left.</p>
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		<title>By: john</title>
		<link>http://www.timboucher.com/journal/2006/08/21/busting-adbusters/comment-page-1/#comment-19268</link>
		<dc:creator>john</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Aug 2006 06:55:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.timboucher.com/journal/2006/08/21/busting-adbusters/#comment-19268</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;The idea (which I think has a lot of merit) is that the corperate logos are fetishized and consumed and the black spot campaign is an effort to resist that in some way.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

The thing that makes that argument fall flat is that the black spot merely serves as a new idol to fetishize. For chrissake, these people are SELLING shoes with a black dot on them!! The intention here is clearly less about subverting accepted symbols but co-opting them.

While the "overarching goal" that is stated on the site is really neat n' all, the problem is -- they are still trying to make sneakers cool. They are *just* trying to make black dots the new swoosh, and they know full well that they'll fail. Nobody's perceptions about footwear and identity will change with this approach. I'm as big a fan of hemp made, fair trade, branded vegan shitkickers as you are... but I just can't buy this. Don't try to sell me a fake DIY product or I'll hate you more than Nike.

As Tim said: Any press is good press. Remember when that "Supersize Me" movie came out? It was perfectly coordinated with McDonalds new healthy meal campaign. Problem? Solution! All this Adbusters crap is just a way to stroke people who think they are above marketing and then marketing to them. It's brilliant... Problem? Solution!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>The idea (which I think has a lot of merit) is that the corperate logos are fetishized and consumed and the black spot campaign is an effort to resist that in some way.</p></blockquote>
<p>The thing that makes that argument fall flat is that the black spot merely serves as a new idol to fetishize. For chrissake, these people are SELLING shoes with a black dot on them!! The intention here is clearly less about subverting accepted symbols but co-opting them.</p>
<p>While the &#8220;overarching goal&#8221; that is stated on the site is really neat n&#8217; all, the problem is &#8212; they are still trying to make sneakers cool. They are *just* trying to make black dots the new swoosh, and they know full well that they&#8217;ll fail. Nobody&#8217;s perceptions about footwear and identity will change with this approach. I&#8217;m as big a fan of hemp made, fair trade, branded vegan shitkickers as you are&#8230; but I just can&#8217;t buy this. Don&#8217;t try to sell me a fake DIY product or I&#8217;ll hate you more than Nike.</p>
<p>As Tim said: Any press is good press. Remember when that &#8220;Supersize Me&#8221; movie came out? It was perfectly coordinated with McDonalds new healthy meal campaign. Problem? Solution! All this Adbusters crap is just a way to stroke people who think they are above marketing and then marketing to them. It&#8217;s brilliant&#8230; Problem? Solution!</p>
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		<title>By: alistair</title>
		<link>http://www.timboucher.com/journal/2006/08/21/busting-adbusters/comment-page-1/#comment-19263</link>
		<dc:creator>alistair</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Aug 2006 03:53:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.timboucher.com/journal/2006/08/21/busting-adbusters/#comment-19263</guid>
		<description>adbusters is selling adbusters......................</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>adbusters is selling adbusters&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;.</p>
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		<title>By: trevor</title>
		<link>http://www.timboucher.com/journal/2006/08/21/busting-adbusters/comment-page-1/#comment-19261</link>
		<dc:creator>trevor</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Aug 2006 01:49:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.timboucher.com/journal/2006/08/21/busting-adbusters/#comment-19261</guid>
		<description>big bissness and corporations mush be stoped in america i agree with ad busters its time to end there error of globle dommonation by big bisness and time to make thing simple</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>big bissness and corporations mush be stoped in america i agree with ad busters its time to end there error of globle dommonation by big bisness and time to make thing simple</p>
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		<title>By: hebrides</title>
		<link>http://www.timboucher.com/journal/2006/08/21/busting-adbusters/comment-page-1/#comment-19260</link>
		<dc:creator>hebrides</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Aug 2006 01:31:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.timboucher.com/journal/2006/08/21/busting-adbusters/#comment-19260</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;Why donâ€™t you call out Sports Illustrated for not going after the issues that are more important than sports?? 


Because Sports Illustrated has not set itself up as a morally superior adversary in a spiritual battle against the "Anti-Sports" world?&lt;/blockquote&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Why donâ€™t you call out Sports Illustrated for not going after the issues that are more important than sports?? </p>
<p>Because Sports Illustrated has not set itself up as a morally superior adversary in a spiritual battle against the &#8220;Anti-Sports&#8221; world?</p></blockquote>
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		<title>By: maximon</title>
		<link>http://www.timboucher.com/journal/2006/08/21/busting-adbusters/comment-page-1/#comment-19259</link>
		<dc:creator>maximon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Aug 2006 01:21:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.timboucher.com/journal/2006/08/21/busting-adbusters/#comment-19259</guid>
		<description>So is there any more slight-proof out there that Adbusters might have some evil intentions? 

Im still struck by the copywrite infringement deal. how could they get away with that?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So is there any more slight-proof out there that Adbusters might have some evil intentions? </p>
<p>Im still struck by the copywrite infringement deal. how could they get away with that?</p>
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		<title>By: Joe</title>
		<link>http://www.timboucher.com/journal/2006/08/21/busting-adbusters/comment-page-1/#comment-19258</link>
		<dc:creator>Joe</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Aug 2006 23:58:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.timboucher.com/journal/2006/08/21/busting-adbusters/#comment-19258</guid>
		<description>Wilson Bryan Key, who wrote books about subliminals in advertising, also touched on exactly the concept you have, mainly: that the people who think they are too smart to be conned, are the ones that are the easiest marks. If you haven't read any of books, please do, highly recommended. 

What is going on the Calvin Kline ad anyway? Two guys and a girl? A rather taboo subject, and Key pointed out that by suggesting through the pictures something that is a repressed desire is a way of opening the viewer to accept other subliminals in the ad. Consciously, one may feel disgusted by what it covertly suggests, and so, one denies what one perceives. (defense mechanism)

Anyway, is this text laid over the &lt;em&gt;still existing&lt;/em&gt; subliminal going to have any effect other than to reinforce the denial mechanism?

Of course Key's books were met by VERY angry denials by the ad industry, along with accusations of a dirty mind,  blah blah...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wilson Bryan Key, who wrote books about subliminals in advertising, also touched on exactly the concept you have, mainly: that the people who think they are too smart to be conned, are the ones that are the easiest marks. If you haven&#8217;t read any of books, please do, highly recommended. </p>
<p>What is going on the Calvin Kline ad anyway? Two guys and a girl? A rather taboo subject, and Key pointed out that by suggesting through the pictures something that is a repressed desire is a way of opening the viewer to accept other subliminals in the ad. Consciously, one may feel disgusted by what it covertly suggests, and so, one denies what one perceives. (defense mechanism)</p>
<p>Anyway, is this text laid over the <em>still existing</em> subliminal going to have any effect other than to reinforce the denial mechanism?</p>
<p>Of course Key&#8217;s books were met by VERY angry denials by the ad industry, along with accusations of a dirty mind,  blah blah&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Irwin Falchs</title>
		<link>http://www.timboucher.com/journal/2006/08/21/busting-adbusters/comment-page-1/#comment-19257</link>
		<dc:creator>Irwin Falchs</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Aug 2006 22:41:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.timboucher.com/journal/2006/08/21/busting-adbusters/#comment-19257</guid>
		<description>Your argument about the Calvin Klein advertisment makes sense when the "subvertisement" is removed from the context of an issue of Adbusters Magazine.  Within such a context it's meaning is easily ascertained by the reader (who PROBABLY understands Adbusters overarching statement) and can therefore be interpeted as a subversive statement on the original advertisement.  If you wanted to you could also remove it from the Adbusters context and it could easily be interpeted as a Jeans ad, regardless of the quote about Democracy.  Also those examples you used aren't really indicative of the kind of detournment work that Adbusters is known for, which are often parodies of advertisements that mimic the err...style of well known advertising campaigns.  

Also the point of the black spot campaign is meant to disrupt the perpetuation of the image of corperate products.  The idea (which I think has a lot of merit) is that the corperate logos are fetishized and consumed and the black spot campaign is an effort to resist that in some way.   I think they're only using nike as an example but it's something that can be done with any kind of shoes or other item bearing a prominant corperate logo (obviously).  And also the use of Nike as an example shows an understanding that there doesn't have to be some expectation of purity among participants who choose to resist this 'branding'

Also it's stupid to criticize Adbusters for not going after the most important issues in the world.  There are other social issues (which ones are most important is a matter of personal perspective) there are also other magazines, and it's the perogative of each publication to choose their subject matter.  Why don't you call out Sports Illustrated for not going after the issues that are more important than sports??</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Your argument about the Calvin Klein advertisment makes sense when the &#8220;subvertisement&#8221; is removed from the context of an issue of Adbusters Magazine.  Within such a context it&#8217;s meaning is easily ascertained by the reader (who PROBABLY understands Adbusters overarching statement) and can therefore be interpeted as a subversive statement on the original advertisement.  If you wanted to you could also remove it from the Adbusters context and it could easily be interpeted as a Jeans ad, regardless of the quote about Democracy.  Also those examples you used aren&#8217;t really indicative of the kind of detournment work that Adbusters is known for, which are often parodies of advertisements that mimic the err&#8230;style of well known advertising campaigns.  </p>
<p>Also the point of the black spot campaign is meant to disrupt the perpetuation of the image of corperate products.  The idea (which I think has a lot of merit) is that the corperate logos are fetishized and consumed and the black spot campaign is an effort to resist that in some way.   I think they&#8217;re only using nike as an example but it&#8217;s something that can be done with any kind of shoes or other item bearing a prominant corperate logo (obviously).  And also the use of Nike as an example shows an understanding that there doesn&#8217;t have to be some expectation of purity among participants who choose to resist this &#8216;branding&#8217;</p>
<p>Also it&#8217;s stupid to criticize Adbusters for not going after the most important issues in the world.  There are other social issues (which ones are most important is a matter of personal perspective) there are also other magazines, and it&#8217;s the perogative of each publication to choose their subject matter.  Why don&#8217;t you call out Sports Illustrated for not going after the issues that are more important than sports??</p>
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		<title>By: Yves</title>
		<link>http://www.timboucher.com/journal/2006/08/21/busting-adbusters/comment-page-1/#comment-19255</link>
		<dc:creator>Yves</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Aug 2006 20:56:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.timboucher.com/journal/2006/08/21/busting-adbusters/#comment-19255</guid>
		<description>I'm with you on this, Tim &#38; indeed Modemac. However it seems to me that a more radical critique is necessary of the kind of democracy &#38; corporate manipulation and failure to think freely that plagues America or if you prefer advanced Western industrial societies. 

Let me try to explain. Reading Adbusters - not a magazine I am familiar with, because I am in England - is evidence of being within the very goldfish bowl one is trying to escape. Who is it intended for? I'm putting myself putatively in your place and thinking I would not be reading &lt;em&gt;Adbusters&lt;/em&gt;, I'd be emigrating, or going up to the hills to live in a shack where there are no ads, no TV, no magazines, no billboards: only the sky and the earth. And if I could not do that physically, I would do it spiritually. 

In any event I would be establishing by the way I live my life that though the advertisers and politicians and corporations need me, I don't need them, not even the magazines which purport to subvert the established order. And by living in this way, which more or less I do, I act as role model to anyone else who's ready to follow suit.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m with you on this, Tim &amp; indeed Modemac. However it seems to me that a more radical critique is necessary of the kind of democracy &amp; corporate manipulation and failure to think freely that plagues America or if you prefer advanced Western industrial societies. </p>
<p>Let me try to explain. Reading Adbusters - not a magazine I am familiar with, because I am in England - is evidence of being within the very goldfish bowl one is trying to escape. Who is it intended for? I&#8217;m putting myself putatively in your place and thinking I would not be reading <em>Adbusters</em>, I&#8217;d be emigrating, or going up to the hills to live in a shack where there are no ads, no TV, no magazines, no billboards: only the sky and the earth. And if I could not do that physically, I would do it spiritually. </p>
<p>In any event I would be establishing by the way I live my life that though the advertisers and politicians and corporations need me, I don&#8217;t need them, not even the magazines which purport to subvert the established order. And by living in this way, which more or less I do, I act as role model to anyone else who&#8217;s ready to follow suit.</p>
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		<title>By: Shashta McNasty</title>
		<link>http://www.timboucher.com/journal/2006/08/21/busting-adbusters/comment-page-1/#comment-19253</link>
		<dc:creator>Shashta McNasty</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Aug 2006 19:44:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.timboucher.com/journal/2006/08/21/busting-adbusters/#comment-19253</guid>
		<description>Like you said, any publicity is good publicity.  Looking at what purports to be a subversion of an AD is still looking at an AD, which acccomplishes one of the primary goals of advertising: familiarizing the brand with the potential customer.  It's enough that we know they exist.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Like you said, any publicity is good publicity.  Looking at what purports to be a subversion of an AD is still looking at an AD, which acccomplishes one of the primary goals of advertising: familiarizing the brand with the potential customer.  It&#8217;s enough that we know they exist.</p>
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		<title>By: Modemac</title>
		<link>http://www.timboucher.com/journal/2006/08/21/busting-adbusters/comment-page-1/#comment-19249</link>
		<dc:creator>Modemac</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Aug 2006 15:37:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.timboucher.com/journal/2006/08/21/busting-adbusters/#comment-19249</guid>
		<description>Back in the mid-to-late 90s, Adbusters was a terrific magazine that did a great job "subverting" traditional advertising...but something changed in the time between then and now.  Back then, the articles and fake ads had an all-important SENSE OF HUMOR, and the reader got the sense that the guys at Adbusters were having a lot of fun poking fun at advertising and waking people up.  The satire was razor-sharp, and it was nasty enough that Absolut Vodka sent them a bunch of legal threats over their poking fun.

But if you pick up an issue of the magazine now, it seems as though the sense of fun and humor has somehow been drained out.  All they do now is whine and moan about how awful the world is and how people are being oppressed by evil corporations.  All of the illustrations and fake ads in the magazine now are shown in a washed-out, drab color that may contain "philosophical" quotes such as the one you mentioned above.  It may look high-minded and "intellectual" -- but it's not FUN anymore.  I don't just mean not "funny" - it's not entertaining and FUN anymore.  Adbusters used to be a must-read for me, but even though I leaf through the occasional issue, I'm just not inspired by it anymore.

However, their "Buy Nothing Day" campaign is still a worthy cause.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Back in the mid-to-late 90s, Adbusters was a terrific magazine that did a great job &#8220;subverting&#8221; traditional advertising&#8230;but something changed in the time between then and now.  Back then, the articles and fake ads had an all-important SENSE OF HUMOR, and the reader got the sense that the guys at Adbusters were having a lot of fun poking fun at advertising and waking people up.  The satire was razor-sharp, and it was nasty enough that Absolut Vodka sent them a bunch of legal threats over their poking fun.</p>
<p>But if you pick up an issue of the magazine now, it seems as though the sense of fun and humor has somehow been drained out.  All they do now is whine and moan about how awful the world is and how people are being oppressed by evil corporations.  All of the illustrations and fake ads in the magazine now are shown in a washed-out, drab color that may contain &#8220;philosophical&#8221; quotes such as the one you mentioned above.  It may look high-minded and &#8220;intellectual&#8221; &#8212; but it&#8217;s not FUN anymore.  I don&#8217;t just mean not &#8220;funny&#8221; - it&#8217;s not entertaining and FUN anymore.  Adbusters used to be a must-read for me, but even though I leaf through the occasional issue, I&#8217;m just not inspired by it anymore.</p>
<p>However, their &#8220;Buy Nothing Day&#8221; campaign is still a worthy cause.</p>
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