Gee, you think?

What is the name for the belief that God is stupid and/or blind? There should be a 25 cent word for that too.

Uh, DUH - it’s called gnosticism!

The human race is far too primitive, stupid, and lazy to maintain any conspiracy beyond a select few years.

Right, the human *race* but not individual humans or groups of humans. To apply that thinking would imply that humans are too primitive, stupid and lazy to do ANYTHING, let alone a conspiracy

There is at least one other alternative, in the idea that events are unfolding according to some natural law or principle. A sensible, ordered universe needn’t imply that there is some entity (God) controlling it all, let alone some conscious conspiracy of humans.

A perfect summation of the technocratic/scientific worldview if I’ve ever heard one! It’s more and more my belief that the only “conspiracy” that exists in that this worldview has been enthroned and has bled down through to almost every facet of life… It still seems to end in nihilism for me though. But maybe I’m thinking about it wrong.

But that’s just me.

*and not just quantum sorcery, either. the cognitive sciences and p-braned string theory are really blurring the lines between magick and science

Science, in this model, may serve as a control system by helping to hide our native magick power. But then where did Dr. Wilhelm Reich come from? In this model, science has changed the gods or egregores or self-perpetuating spells in some way. What if it infected the control systems themselves with a virus that aims to free us?

That attempts to manipulate public opinion have occurred is an indisputable fact. There are many well-documented techniques which have been used. Advertising. Propaganda. “False flag” operations. The “Delphi Technique”. Etc.

Does a conspiracy have to succeed in order to count as a conspiracy? Is anything that falls short of the perfect crime still a crime?

I think I expressed my opinion is that yes, conspiracies can indeed exist, but no, I don’t think any of them have lasted generations or done what magical-thinking people would, in their romantic worldview, like to attribute to them.

Propaganda and advertising are simply tools used toward a specific, transient goal, whether political, capitalistic or a mix of the two. The most painful conspiracy-theory crap on the ol’ net seems to elevate the “conspirators” to a genius, Illuminati-type level inferring that if not FOR them, people wouldn’t be so easily manipulated/apathetic/evil.

They’ve got it backwards. It’s the PEOPLE (us) who suck, who hand down the aforementioned mass idiocy in an almost genetic/organic way, whether it’s following consumerism, or political or religious dogma. The vultures simply respond to that need. They change the game’s outward form as often as is necessary, but they have no grand vision, only an aim to profit from ignorance as quickly and effectively as possible. Anyone with sense can see it, anyone without will be bilked.

Conspiracy theories are cowardly in a way. I feel this intuitively because they allow certain individuals to abdicate their own responsibility for the particular fix they find themselves in.

A glaring example is the spike in anti-Jewish feeling in the last several years. Leaving as much of modern political specifics out as possible, the new anti-semites who lap up old conspiracy junk about the “International Zionist Cabal” are almost all unified as being those whose own cultures in one way or another are failing miserably, but won’t dare to challenge their own shortcomings in anything resembling an impartial manner.

The most difficult thing a person can do is to take responsibility for their own consciousness. People will do almost anything to avoid even thinking about it.

What is the name for the belief that God is stupid and/or blind? There should be a 25 cent word for that too.

Amblyotheism

Dystheism is the belief that there is a God that does exist and that this God is evil, or at best not wholly good. It is contrasted with eutheism, which is the belief that God exists and is good.

What is the name for the belief that God is stupid and/or blind? There should be a 25 cent word for that too.

And Gore Vidal is probably right. BushCo are opportunists, but they’re not masterminds–of anything.

The human race is far too primitive, stupid, and lazy to maintain any conspiracy beyond a select few years. I believe Mr. Conspiracy himself, Robert Anton Wilson, said something similar.

See: Hanlon’s Razor

also: “Never attribute to conspiracy that which is adequately explained by stupidity.” - paraphrase of “Hanlon’s Razor”, attributions vary

“To plan a culture or government is one thing. To work intentionally behind-the-scenes as a subterfuge, secretively, to get masses of people to do what you want without them knowing? Can’t see it, at least not as a prolonged effort. Would give too much credit to those who don’t deserve it.”

That attempts to manipulate public opinion have occurred is an indisputable fact. There are many well-documented techniques which have been used. Advertising. Propaganda. “False flag” operations. The “Delphi Technique”. Etc.

Does a conspiracy have to succeed in order to count as a conspiracy? Is anything that falls short of the perfect crime still a crime?

The question posed by conspiracy theories, no matter who is identified as the conspirators or what their goals are alleged to be, is “To what extent have they succeeded? What opportunities for resistance are still open to us?”

David: What makes you think it has to be humans behind the conspiracy?

Nope. I tend toward the Douglas Adams/South Park view. If they’re up there in their dark-matter powered ships, they just watch us through their ultra high-powered telescopes and laugh out endless streams of cyanic gas through their gills. The real purpose of the Prime Directive is to provide non-interactive entertainment.

Maybe, maybe… but there are in fact many institutions of all kinds that have been maintained across a much longer span of time then “a few years”. So organizing systems and beliefs and MO’s that cover long periods of time isn’t exactly outside the grasp of human beings. Cheap example, the US has been maintaining a country and military for over 200 yrs…maybe some planning was involved?

To plan a culture or government is one thing. To work intentionally behind-the-scenes as a subterfuge, secretively, to get masses of people to do what you want without them knowing? Can’t see it, at least not as a prolonged effort. Would give too much credit to those who don’t deserve it.

The “cosmic conspiracy”–namely, we are as we are because the Earth is as it is, and the Earth is at it is because the Universe is as it is–is the only one that determines anything.

Yes, the apotheosis of conspiracy theory: nothing has not been forseen, including the development of this and all other conspiracy theories. (see story above :))

The human conspiracy assumes that these humans have enough self-determination to make any decisions, that they are not themselves manipulated to the utmost degree.

Are Bush and Cheney on top of things? They are playing long-established roles, Bush could hardly more represent the archetypal Idiot Boy-King, and Cheney could hardly more represent the Evil Counseller.

If there’s an Illuminati circle at the top of the hierarchy, they themselves were born into it.

A sensible, ordered universe needn’t imply that there is some entity (God) controlling it all, let alone some conscious conspiracy of humans , extraterrestials, demons or other creatures.

The human race is far too primitive, stupid, and lazy to maintain any conspiracy beyond a select few years. I believe Mr. Conspiracy himself, Robert Anton Wilson, said something similar.

Maybe, maybe… but there are in fact many institutions of all kinds that have been maintained across a much longer span of time then “a few years”. So organizing systems and beliefs and MO’s that cover long periods of time isn’t exactly outside the grasp of human beings. Cheap example, the US has been maintaining a country and military for over 200 yrs…maybe some planning was involved?

There is at least one other alternative, in the idea that events are unfolding according to some natural law or principle. A sensible, ordered universe needn’t imply that there is some entity (God) controlling it all, let alone some conscious conspiracy of humans.

Think of the way plants grow, like an unfolding fractal. Robert Prechter, the Elliott Wave guy, thinks human societies develop in similar fashion and that — taken en masse — we are simply following the fractal patterns of our reptilian brains. The behavior of crowds is patterned over time, he says, and is a function of natural processes.

So I think the question doesn’t really boil down to whether or not this is a sensible, ordered universe. I can see how it might be, but still be one in which there is no possibility of transcendence, no “other side” to escape to, no “true reality” to realize. It’s meaning might be nothing more than the fractal equations governing its unfolding.

I think the question is really whether or not we consider ourselves at home in this universe. Or whether we see ourselves as trapped in it.

Sure it may APPEAR to be a conspiracy, “The Man,” and so forth, but that’s really just people inferring things onto power structures which exist simply because nothing better or different has been created yet.

It’s the law of least resistance. The “cosmic conspiracy”–namely, we are as we are because the Earth is as it is, and the Earth is at it is because the Universe is as it is–is the only one that determines anything.

So the chaos answer is I think much more close to the truth, but conspiracy/end-timers will do all kinds of mental and emotional gymnastics to create a sense of “meaning” in their and our existence.