Comments on: The Necessity of Crime http://www.timboucher.com/journal/2006/08/31/the-necessity-of-crime/ public domain playground. friendly entities welcome. Sun, 22 Nov 2009 16:31:17 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.7 hourly 1 By: Tim Boucher http://www.timboucher.com/journal/2006/08/31/the-necessity-of-crime/comment-page-1/#comment-19581 Tim Boucher Fri, 01 Sep 2006 22:58:25 +0000 http://www.timboucher.com/journal/2006/08/31/the-necessity-of-crime/#comment-19581 Awesome points all around. I am going to branch this off into its own new post and try to rekindle this conversation in a new direction Awesome points all around. I am going to branch this off into its own new post and try to rekindle this conversation in a new direction

]]> By: Yves http://www.timboucher.com/journal/2006/08/31/the-necessity-of-crime/comment-page-1/#comment-19566 Yves Fri, 01 Sep 2006 15:03:45 +0000 http://www.timboucher.com/journal/2006/08/31/the-necessity-of-crime/#comment-19566 to hf: excellent link, I get the point now. Think of me as a slack-jawed English yokel, lacking sophistication in these matters, but getting the point days later. to hf: excellent link, I get the point now. Think of me as a slack-jawed English yokel, lacking sophistication in these matters, but getting the point days later.

]]> By: Joe Chip http://www.timboucher.com/journal/2006/08/31/the-necessity-of-crime/comment-page-1/#comment-19559 Joe Chip Fri, 01 Sep 2006 01:46:44 +0000 http://www.timboucher.com/journal/2006/08/31/the-necessity-of-crime/#comment-19559 This relates: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/politics/5301824.stm This relates: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/politics/5301824.stm

]]> By: hf http://www.timboucher.com/journal/2006/08/31/the-necessity-of-crime/comment-page-1/#comment-19557 hf Thu, 31 Aug 2006 21:29:40 +0000 http://www.timboucher.com/journal/2006/08/31/the-necessity-of-crime/#comment-19557 No, Yves, this makes a certain amount of sense from a sociological point of view that has no connection to law or lawyers. See <a href="http://bradhicks.livejournal.com/94218.html" rel="nofollow">Brad Hicks on liberalism and conservatism</a>. No, Yves, this makes a certain amount of sense from a sociological point of view that has no connection to law or lawyers. See Brad Hicks on liberalism and conservatism.

]]> By: J http://www.timboucher.com/journal/2006/08/31/the-necessity-of-crime/comment-page-1/#comment-19556 J Thu, 31 Aug 2006 20:39:30 +0000 http://www.timboucher.com/journal/2006/08/31/the-necessity-of-crime/#comment-19556 The point that I wanted to make previously regarding sexual mixed messages is that all of this has led to a curious form of sexual repression in our culture....one in which sexual "liberation" is utilized as a tool for marketing, sales and entertainment, but is rather off limits to the average person. The constant display of sexuality within the entertainment world leads people to believe that this is really how people behave in our society is when it comes to sex....a false sense of promiscuity, if you will. I think the same can be said for crime. It amazes me how people see so much crime on television and actually believe that this is somehow a real reflection of our society. Fear and paranoia. Not sure if this is making sense to anyone else, but I just wanted to clarify... The point that I wanted to make previously regarding sexual mixed messages is that all of this has led to a curious form of sexual repression in our culture….one in which sexual “liberation” is utilized as a tool for marketing, sales and entertainment, but is rather off limits to the average person. The constant display of sexuality within the entertainment world leads people to believe that this is really how people behave in our society is when it comes to sex….a false sense of promiscuity, if you will.

I think the same can be said for crime. It amazes me how people see so much crime on television and actually believe that this is somehow a real reflection of our society. Fear and paranoia.

Not sure if this is making sense to anyone else, but I just wanted to clarify…

]]> By: J http://www.timboucher.com/journal/2006/08/31/the-necessity-of-crime/comment-page-1/#comment-19555 J Thu, 31 Aug 2006 20:31:33 +0000 http://www.timboucher.com/journal/2006/08/31/the-necessity-of-crime/#comment-19555 Great post! I think this has a correlation with the bizarre-o mixed messages regarding sexuality that we see in our culture, as well. On one hand, we have rampant promiscuity and carefree sexual indulgence (nearly resembling hedonism) as prevailing themes within the entertainment media. On the other hand, schools, churches and the medical industry are projecting any number of messages regarding the "evils" and necessary sanitization of sex: STDs, AIDS, unwanted pregnancy, abortion, rape, etc, etc. Teenagers ultimately bear the brunt of these mixed messages during the years when they're already confused enough about sex. Being bombarded by constant, plasticized sexual hedonism within pop culture gives the impression that this is normal, expected and "cool." Sure, it's just entertainment, but people, especially young people, certainly internalize those messages and they do affect their perceptions. With regard to crime, I think the extreme mixed messages that you mentioned fit into this. People are fascinated by crime and are content to believe that crime is prevalent, regardless of whether they have any firsthand knowledge of this or not. Internalizing the the constant barrage of crime leads to lack of trust and perpetual paranoia. But, most importantly, the constant emphasis on crime keeps people <i>isolated</i> from one another. Whether it's fear of terrorism or fear of crime, the unease is always there as a reminder of why we so desperately need our smart friends in Washington to run things for us and keep us safe from those terrorists and criminals. Great post!

I think this has a correlation with the bizarre-o mixed messages regarding sexuality that we see in our culture, as well. On one hand, we have rampant promiscuity and carefree sexual indulgence (nearly resembling hedonism) as prevailing themes within the entertainment media. On the other hand, schools, churches and the medical industry are projecting any number of messages regarding the “evils” and necessary sanitization of sex: STDs, AIDS, unwanted pregnancy, abortion, rape, etc, etc.

Teenagers ultimately bear the brunt of these mixed messages during the years when they’re already confused enough about sex. Being bombarded by constant, plasticized sexual hedonism within pop culture gives the impression that this is normal, expected and “cool.” Sure, it’s just entertainment, but people, especially young people, certainly internalize those messages and they do affect their perceptions.

With regard to crime, I think the extreme mixed messages that you mentioned fit into this. People are fascinated by crime and are content to believe that crime is prevalent, regardless of whether they have any firsthand knowledge of this or not. Internalizing the the constant barrage of crime leads to lack of trust and perpetual paranoia. But, most importantly, the constant emphasis on crime keeps people isolated from one another. Whether it’s fear of terrorism or fear of crime, the unease is always there as a reminder of why we so desperately need our smart friends in Washington to run things for us and keep us safe from those terrorists and criminals.

]]> By: Yves http://www.timboucher.com/journal/2006/08/31/the-necessity-of-crime/comment-page-1/#comment-19553 Yves Thu, 31 Aug 2006 18:45:08 +0000 http://www.timboucher.com/journal/2006/08/31/the-necessity-of-crime/#comment-19553 In former centuries, what discouraged crime was cruel punishment and the fear of hell. I think Durkheim's idea as quoted is far-fetched. It's true that lawyers depend on previous cases to illustrate the application of the law, but in England, there are plenty of laws still extant which have not been tested in the courts for hundreds of years. But, I am glad to say, I am not a lawyer, so there may be some subtlety I am missing here. In former centuries, what discouraged crime was cruel punishment and the fear of hell. I think Durkheim’s idea as quoted is far-fetched. It’s true that lawyers depend on previous cases to illustrate the application of the law, but in England, there are plenty of laws still extant which have not been tested in the courts for hundreds of years. But, I am glad to say, I am not a lawyer, so there may be some subtlety I am missing here.

]]> By: Yves http://www.timboucher.com/journal/2006/08/31/the-necessity-of-crime/comment-page-1/#comment-19552 Yves Thu, 31 Aug 2006 18:38:17 +0000 http://www.timboucher.com/journal/2006/08/31/the-necessity-of-crime/#comment-19552 Once again, a provocative exposition. I think it needs to be added that crime and sin are not the same thing. Sin is a religious concept and does not exist for the non-religious person. We avoid crime because we don't want to get caught, and because of our sense of <em>conscience</em>. Our conscience has its own set of ethics, which overlaps our awareness of sin and crime but remains distinct from both. My conscience may allow me to commit a crime and a "sin", but may prevent me from doing things which are neither. Once again, a provocative exposition. I think it needs to be added that crime and sin are not the same thing. Sin is a religious concept and does not exist for the non-religious person.

We avoid crime because we don’t want to get caught, and because of our sense of conscience. Our conscience has its own set of ethics, which overlaps our awareness of sin and crime but remains distinct from both. My conscience may allow me to commit a crime and a “sin”, but may prevent me from doing things which are neither.

]]> By: hf http://www.timboucher.com/journal/2006/08/31/the-necessity-of-crime/comment-page-1/#comment-19550 hf Thu, 31 Aug 2006 17:49:20 +0000 http://www.timboucher.com/journal/2006/08/31/the-necessity-of-crime/#comment-19550 Again, <a href="http://hairyfigment.livejournal.com/3430.html" rel="nofollow">religion can't logically give us ethics</a>. This argument suggests that changing ethics stem from the loss of power by the government that calls itself the Catholic Church. And indeed, the Reformation showed us contrarian religious people like the Quakers and Diggers and especially Ranters. The Puritan <strong><em>goverment</em></strong> created new anti-blasphemy laws just for them. Again, religion can’t logically give us ethics. This argument suggests that changing ethics stem from the loss of power by the government that calls itself the Catholic Church. And indeed, the Reformation showed us contrarian religious people like the Quakers and Diggers and especially Ranters. The Puritan goverment created new anti-blasphemy laws just for them.

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