This has been kicking around in my mind ever since this post on how attacking something tends to make it stronger. I’ve kept meaning to come back and expand this into a more elaborate format, but I’m realizing there may not be a need. It is a simple concept:
To cause an event is to contain it.
That is, when you force something to happen, you have a hand in determining the shape and therefore outcome of that event. The original example I had prepared for this subject had to do with public relations. Can’t find the original source anymore, but I read once about a tactic used by PR people, where they pre-empt negative news about their organization. That is, if a whistleblower is about to come forward and reveal a scandal at a press conference on Monday morning at 9:00am, the PR people will find out (through media contacts) and then schedule a hasty press conference at 11:00pm Sunday night, in which they announce the same information, but clothe it in an entirely different way (”spin”) which ends up ultimately serving them, and containing the potential damage this announcement would have caused were it not within an appropriate container.
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31 Comments
Did you just watch Man of the Year too? That’s exactly the scenario that played out in the movie at one point. Speaking of which, I recommend the film highly.
And I agree with your point. Well said.
University’s pass their most nasty policies during the summer — when no students are around.
4 must read Noam Chomsky books on information control:
1) At War with Asia
2) Year 501: The Conquest Continues
3) World Orders: Old and New
4) Political Economy of Human Rights: The Washington Connection and Third World Fascism.
Chomsky states that Public Radio is the worst form of mind control indoctrination because of the fake, “sophisticated” debate based on a FALSE FRAMEWORK of assumptions.
http://tricksterbook.com
I believe the PR tacit you are thinking of is the Primacy Effect, when information presented first usually has the most influence. There is actually a formula to determine the best time to present a message in order to avoid the Recency Effect, when the last message is the more influental. It has to do with the amount of time between the opposing messages. The less time, the stronger the Primacy Effect. But there has to be enough time for the audience to form Attitude Inoculation to reject the upcoming message. A lot of this work was done at the Ohio State University during the ’60s, ’70s, and ’80s. But that was just the quantifying. The ’spin’ is, of course, simply providing a schema by which the following message will be interpreted through. Relying on belief perseverence and cognitive bais, the providers of the earlier message can just stand back and let the human mind do the rest of the work when the opposing side presents its message.
http://www.prwatch.org/cmd/prwatch.html
Chomsky is fake alternative similiar to Amy Goodman and others that view the world in the present price system model.
Chomsky is clueless . He is a millionaire, he just keeps writing more pointless books.
Chomsky is part of the problem.
chomskey is a linguist disguised as a political scientist. his opinions are as biased as any other political opinion yet he speaks to gob-smacked sophomores around america who think he`s god. i wouldn`t say clueless though. he`s a fairly bright guy. a darling of the liberals.
A darling of the liberals indeed . Every once in a while he gets an entire roomful to laugh politely, after saying something he and they think is profound.
I have yet to hear him say anything about anything that will contribute to change the system , beyond ways to modify the existing model with a little political tinkering.
That means politics, and there is no future solution in a political model such as we have , based on money.
He may be smart , and a good talker , but he is also annoyingly dense. I know he gets huge fees for his speaking, and I would think almost that he is the most conservative of people as a flunky for the system. I`ll take any thing that Gore Vidal writes over Noam’s stuff any day. Gore is actually smart, and of all the professional smart people , I think he may be the best.
It’s easy to dismiss Chomsky since hardly anyone actually reads his books (and look how defensive we get over it!).
Chomsky is a “social scientist” which means he’s qualified to write on any social science topic with the same standards as other social scientists.
His writing is based on academic sources, professional news reports and highly acclaimed human rights reports, etc.
So to knock down Chomky you can’t just dismiss him as some pawn of his military-funded research, etc.
Chris Knight has the best analysis of Chomsky — I’ll get the post.
God that took too long! haha http://www.whatnextjournal.co.uk/Pages/Back/Wnext26/Chomsky.html
Ok where was I –
Amy Goodman was almost killed in a U.S. funded massacre in East Timor. Another journalist jumped on top of her to receive the blows from military thugs while they shot peaceful demonstrators — dozens of them.
Anyway sure Chomsky and Goodman are not totally radical anti-civilization conspiracy activists (like me and other super awesome people) haha — but they are a threat to the system.
Pacifica radio has been named for removal in congress and I used Chomsky’s detailed analysis for my anti-sweatshop activism at the U of Minnesota.
I single-brainedly took on the Student Senate by refuting their arguments with excerpts from World Orders: Old and New.
Now — is Chomksy hard to read? Yes he even claims he’s “turgid” as he’s been dismissed for being. But the “FORM” of his subject requires that his writing style approach very difficult issues of ideology in an indirect manner.
He’s not nearly as bad as say “superstar” Slavoj Zizek who everyone loves because Zizek’s message is “do nothing.”
Chomsky supports syndicalism based on THE BIG STRIKE — can’t get any better than that!!
Chomsky’s latest sold out lecture in Cambridge Square had it’s main message as “under current trends nuclear exchange is inevitable.”
Hard to get more radical than that.
I would say people more radical are not much different than Chomsky — Wayne Madsen, Michael Ruppert…
John Zerzan, for example, misquoted Chomsky and misrepresented Chomsky.
Chomsky called Zerzan on it but Zerzan would not even respond to Chomsky.
Zerzan has created his own little imbred cult based on disinformation — no different than all the little Marxist cults around the U.S.: Freedom Road, RCP, ISO, etc.
Where the hell is everyone! I’ve been doing data entry now for what — 50 hours straight? Hello?!
like i said, excite the the sophomores and get paid. one. trick. pony.
like even sting said…..there are no political solutions. in a jamaican accent…..maybe he was trying to be ironic.
and i never found chomskey`s writing or speaking dense………just predictable. if you say the word hegemony enough times, people begin to go look it up.
I’ve always figured that if all the 9-11 conspiracy/”inside job” stuff caught on to the point where it was causing huge public uproar, the people in charge would suddenly “realize” that there were “terrorists” who successfully worked the system from the inside, and that they must be captured and destroyed! (etc). That is, they would take the blame originally pointed in their direction and use ju-jitsu to turn it against a new phantom menace bad guy.
Noam is presented by the system as fake alternative.
Amy Goodmans favorite guest does not ever say a thing about changing the status quo of the system.
He may be good at pointing out the obvious of who runs things now, but this is known information .
He has developed a huge industry of personality cult about himself , that I find weird since at base he does not say any thing at all about creating a better society.
I find him to be a part of the divide and conquer aspect of the price system.
Left , right confusion. Both parties are run by the same people and have been since about 1948. This was when the military/industrial/congressional complex took over completely, and for Noam to think in terms of this being a reformable democratic system is kind of pathetic and self serving.
So he is a sort of anarchist democrat. A rich man who sells so many books that people mistakenly think are alternative.
The system loves this guy.
They consider him one of their spokespeople.
Amy Goodman is alternative because she was almost shot.? I find her reporting , and even the name of her show to be only a mouth piece for the system. Democracy now. ? Who wants Democracy any way. She is a cats paw for the powers that be.
That just means rule by the mob. Would you like any 10 Americans to decide your fate. I don`t think so.
The Primacy Effect brings to mind a military saying that I read from a gentleman who’s serving in Iraq:
The first information is always wrong.
the first time i ever played the game where we all sat in a circle and one person whispered something in the next person`s ear……and around the circle the whisper went, i wasn`t surprised that the whisper that emerged was vastly different than the one that went in. the thing that seemed strange to me was that people continued to rely on that same system to not distort the message………………..
people like chomskey are typical of the media in general. that`s why i prefer alan watt. he suggests solutions. he lives in the woods north of toronto far from the media centers where the bright lights are.
alan says wake up and realise that the system has been engineered for generations, going back to the freemasonic groups on the mayflower and beyond. to try to gain insight from the talking heads would be like trying to get nutrition from a train track.
i think we all know this intuitively anyway.
was arron brown on cnn before 9/11?
Politics comes after you if you try to ignore it. Sure you have to go to a deeper level but earn it through real on the ground activism!
I corresponded with Chomsky — I told him to get “At War With Asia” back in print (this was year 2000). Chomsky told me it’s very hard for him to get books back in print because they don’t sell very well. So he probably used my email since the book got reissued within a year (by AK Press).
So it’s great that Hugo Chavez put Chomsky back on the map! That inspired me to speed read “Hegemony and Survival” and it has a great expose on how Kruschev tried to stop the Cold War.
Chomsky provides solid, detailed information as does Amy Goodman.
Sure the ultimate conspiracy analysts are Daniel Hopsicker http://madcowprod.com
Wayne Madsen http://waynemadsenreport.com
http://copvcia.com
http://earthfirst.org
http://ctrl.org (conspiracy theory research list).
goddam, can’t anyone stay on topic anymore? now this perfectly lucid post on how creation of a phenomenon contains the phenomenon is all about chomsky (actually, it seems that it’s all about drew hempel, who seems to have diarreah of the fingers, and what he thinks of chomsky).
personally, i could give two shits about chomsky, goodman, zerzan, et al *unless* you can some how make the discussion about them permanent to this post.
how about this option? the concept of containment by causation extends far beyond the stupid banalities of “liberal vs. conservative” or even “politics vs anti-politics.” it extends to the very chain of being– our actions contain the events they cause. this may be the very root of experience within the world of forms.
Exactly — but to consider that Chomsky has not included that depth regarding freedom and causation in actions in his analysis is wrong (i.e. he’s the best critic of Skinner Behavioralism). Chomsky argues there is an “instinct for freedom” connected to the “instinct for I-language.” The source of the I-language is the same source as the “spiritual education” freedom promoted by Chomsky’s main inspiration, the libertarian philosopher Wilhelm von Humboldt, and also the freedom in the conspiracy analysis of Rousseau and also the mysticism of Martin Buber.
Buber, Rousseau and Wilhelm von Humboldt are the main inspirations for Chomsky’s analysis.
Chomsky has argued recently (in “Critics of Chomsky,” 2003) that science is just a “cycling of elements” based on “abduction” — C.S. Pierce’s logic of mysticism.
So while Chomsky’s linguistics is being used by the military to convert words in our brain into computer control (as detailed in a new quantum computer book) Chomsky also has a “conspiratorial” take on science that could be seen as Freemasonry or Transhumanism.
There is an esoteric concept that , force cancels force.
That would be different than attacking something causing it to become stronger.
In both of these it would depend on the circumstance. If something attacks you , it makes sense to fight back with an equal or stronger force.
If you attack something for no reason , you may strengthen the thing being attacked.
Chomsky is a muddler. A believer in things other than the rationale. Therefore he fails even as a social critic. I see him more like a tea leaf reader, with a big blind ego.
No, I have never seen it!
Gore Vidal writes all those stupid “historical” novels that are boring to no end! Chomsky does original research and analysis! He’s a best-seller in other countries and called “the world’s greatest living intellectual” by the NY Times.
Chomsky is not the “darling” of the liberals. Liberals listen to Public Radio. Chomsky hates public radio!
Chomsky is a radical from the anarchist scene in NYC. Chomsky promotes libertarian socialism as syndicalism.
That’s no different than the Allende movement or even the Chavez movement with it’s birth of 200,000 cooperatives.
Chavez promoted Chomsky and that’s a great testimony to how Chomsky’s work is directly practical.
Chomsky’s main point is that U.S. democracy is dependent on genocidal imperialism.
That’s a broad and radical hypothesis driving all of his analysis — yet that basic point get’s ignored by the liberals.
People love to throw around Chomsky’s name and talk about Chomsky without even having read Chomsky!!
the Idiot Net!
Got news for you Drew, Gore Vidal is 10 times smarter than Chomsky ever was in his dreams.
Try reading his essays sometime , and The United States of Amnesia stuff.
Libertarian socialism ha that Noam supports.? Well sweet then. You are talking about a price system there buddy. A class system there buddy. A political system there buddy.
You know what , Right and Left are only made for people to be confused with . That way the power possessor’s maintain control.
U.S. Democracy is dependent on genocidal controls. ? Yes , so , this is old news that dates from 1948 or so.
Noam is a reformer that wants to reform the current system. The current fake democracy system has no future except as a collapsed , fascist , socialist state, that they call a Democracy even so.
You may not agree and think Chomsky is a demi god , but I think he is part of the problem , and not any where near as smart and aware as you think.
So be it. To me he has as much value as a Rush Limbaugh, or Al Franken.
He is just a exploiter of people who are gullible enough to believe in politics
And yes , he could have another or perhaps another two or three books in him. I am sure they will sell well , at least for now.
I’ve heard Gore have the whole program of Amy Goodman. He’s all nostalgia. Chomsky relies on hard evidence. Does Gore want to get rid of the currency system? I doubt it.
Chomsky advocates revoking corporate charters — there’s nothing less “reform” than that! http://poclad.org for details.
Now on currency I recommend http://paranoiamagazine.com — they link to a book on Amazon by a dude whose uncle was part of the Pearl harbor Conspiracy.
I ordered the book — “alternative currencies for local communities” — and it’s been over a month in processing!
Madison WI had about $17,000 in script last I heard — like IthacaHours and there’s one here in Minneapolis.
Here it is:
http://www.lawresearchgroup.com/cart/p...hp?productid=155&cat=0&page=1
The guy who wrote it is serving hard time — solitary — in Waseca, Minnesota, a federal prison for his “anti-bank currency”
Fact is Drew we no longer need a banking system, and insurance system, a pay for health system. or a political system. Those are all made for the paper pushers .
These people you mention are unfortunate victims. I would consider many people to be. Why they believe in these abstract concepts of money, debt, value , is probably due to the mechanical nature of humans sometimes. Human gullibility.
Why would any one in their right mind, I mean not brain washed, work to make someone else be rich , and then get delegated into a lower class. ? Fire works ahead in America.
Sure I totally agree — but why are you making vague references to something you won’t take about?
What do you mean by “fire” works? What do you think people need?
I recommend Pyramid Power — I’m sitting in full-lotus. Healthcare is the #1 civilian cost and is the top political threat in China — the qigong societies.
http://springforestqigong.com
Paper money has always been enforced the military — so Archytas and Plato beat out the self-healing system of Pythagoras — using Freemasonic Technology.
The first paper money was in China and then a 10-based currency system enabled prostitution to “free” women from sacred sex bondage in Western Asia-Greece (as detailed in Professor Jack Weatherford’s new book on money).
So money is the oldest form of technology, evolved from Gold-Sun and Silver-Moon ritual sacrifice.
Technology is Tantra seen as a means to free women from domestic sex-bondage — through imperial materialism, started with the cold Femme Fatale technology of Nefertiti (read Camille Paglia’s tome, “Sexual Personae”)
I talk a lot about it in my book which is free on my site Drew. If you want a paper copy I can meet you and give you one or mail you one . Not hard to look up my other address, and related stuff on it. Be happy to .
You could probably even steal a copy at that certain store you mentioned earlier, or at the other one on Lyndale and 25th or whatever it is. You know the Arise store.
I can download it at the U library computer or I’ll look for it at Mayday.
Sorry — I say a lot of Veblen inspired analysis — which is totally out-dated. I downloaded the books and went through them. I see no “solution” — just lots of problem analysis. That’s cool but your problem analysis doesn’t include nonlinear stochastic feedback — I recommend the book “The Wealth of Nature” by Professor Robert Nadeau (2004).
Nadeau’s book was reviewed by the Economist and that rag did not even mention the main focus of the book - quantum chaos economics!!
So there’s serious denial. I call it the “Alchemy of DeNile.”