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Bible Study Groups
I’m curious to find out more about the experiences of Pop Occulture readers in regards to the subject of Bible study. A friend of mine was talking recently about how he wanted to start a Bible study group among our circle of friends and I think this is a great idea. Has anybody here ever been part of a group like this? Was it a fruitful experience?
One of the main points I’m interested in with regards to it is: what was or what would be your agenda if you were to join such a group? Can you do it from the perspective of not having an agenda whatsoever? That is, can you simply sit down and talk about the Bible without having to worry whether or not you’re a Christian or if you believe in God or if somebody is going to try and force you into going to church?
Seems entirely doable to me, if you just approached it as a book club dedicated to the most popular book of all time. I don’t think you need to be specifically religious or spiritual to want to know more about the Bible. It is, after all, one of the pivotal works upon which our culture is founded.
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October 24th, 2006 at 6:32 pm
the angle that interests me most is primarily etymological. it would be cool to study word-for-word, in parallel, the most ancient available version and the most popular english translation (king james or whatever fundie ‘tards masturbate over) - with an eye for how the particular translation decisions were made, in the context of the translators’ worldviews, ideologies, and political goals; and, therefore, how far the resulting modern christian paradigms have diverged from the original metaphysics.
October 24th, 2006 at 7:32 pm
I hate to break this to you Tim , but you probably should join a book club and suggest to the members that you all read the Bible, or part of it.
They pretty well expect the people at bible study to believe in the subject, and I think you may feel like an interloper while there if you are not a literalist .
What your talking about is a Unitarian discussion group maybe.
I would just pick a church at random that holds a Wednesday night bible study or whenever , and go there and see what happens rather than intellectualize about it.
October 24th, 2006 at 7:58 pm
The only bible study group I’ve been involoved in has been from the perspective of the bible as being the literal dictation of God (and that it’s inerrant). I was a believer at the time, so I enjoyed it, but would not be willing to sit through such a study again.
If there were a group (online or otherwise) studying the bible as a work of literature, I’d be quick to join up. I’d love to study the bible from that perspective (an in fact am doing so on my own).
October 24th, 2006 at 9:52 pm
Is that really necessary?
Oh, no I have a group of friends who would be interested. I don’t need to find the people.
Yeah I’m planning on checking out some Unitarian stuff very soon!
Skip, I love your new “go try it out” attitude. Couldn’t agree more! I guess I’m just trying to maintain conversation and come up with interesting topics for people to think about at this point - hence the post about it!
October 24th, 2006 at 10:11 pm
I have always wanted to join a secular bible study.. But I have never been able to find enough people interested.
October 24th, 2006 at 10:26 pm
Hm, I don’t know if secular is really what I’m after. But secular would be included as well. I guess I wouldn’t want to focus it on secular concerns though, since that would obviously exclude a major potent factor of the book’s purpose. It would be like examining sex organs and what they’re for without ever talking about sex…
October 25th, 2006 at 6:11 am
I’d say it’s going to be a total gamble. The biggest concern I’ve had in similar situations is that a huge number of Christians take the bible as 100% pure litaral truth. Bringing up anything suggesting otherwise, and there’s a lot in there which pretty much demands it in a frank discussion, is about as much fun as kicking a puppy. And not doing so is as enjoyable as sitting around giving false smiles and thumbs up for an hour.
That said, it’s a huge treat to discuss the bible with Christians who have made an actual academic study of the material. My absolute favourite class was pretty much what you’re describing. A nice mix of Christians, agnosticics…..and I suspect closeted atheists as well. But in any case, just because the professor was such an amazing teacher, in the best sense of the word, it was hard to even really know who held any particular faith. Which is even more amazing given that it was about 40% lecture, and 60% discussion among us all as a group. So it definitly can be done, but I think it’s going to be highly dependant on group dynamics and a moderator to keep things rolling.
October 25th, 2006 at 7:14 am
of course not, sorry
October 25th, 2006 at 8:31 am
I grew up in a very religious home in which church attendance twice a week was the norm, plus Bible study groups. Unfortunately, I have never had any experience with a Bible study from the perspective you’ve described here. In fact, such a thing has never occurred to me, simply because, up until now, the term “Bible study” has always been synonomous with a gathering of already-convinced, church-going Christians who intend to pour more over all semantic aspects of the Bible. This was never something that I enjoyed, because the study and dialogue was invariably based on a series of spiritual, emotional and intellectual assumptions about all of the attendants….not to mention the Bible, itself.
It’s very interesting to see a different kind of (non-academic) Bible study suggested. Of course, I’m still a bit skeptical considering my own past experiences with Bible study groups, but I don’t doubt that a free, more objective study of the Bible could take place. I just think it would have to take place among people with the same goal in mind. Approaching the Bible from this standpoint would be incredibly fruitful, I think. And very, very interesting! I’d love to hear about how it turns out…
October 25th, 2006 at 9:33 am
Don`t expect to much in a discussion with the Unitarians Tim. They are a very nondescript as a group, except they focus on left politics. It may be to thin a gruel of actual intellectual porridge for you. They are mostly political flunkies really. Comical in a way.
An old joke,
A Unitarian is someone who when spreading their faith goes around ringing doorbells , but if the door is answered , stands there with nothing to say.~!~
As a group they are mostly caught up in one type of politicking or another.
In a way they are ultra conservative and don`t know it, mostly looking to the current system for answers instead of real alternatives.
October 25th, 2006 at 10:44 am
Secular study of the Christian Bible?
Are you o.k., man?
Quick somebody, get Timmy a nice cup of tea!
You asked for an opinion of your readers so here goes…
It has been my experience that playing with the shards left by the Enlightenment can still cause wounds, sometimes unexpected, unwanted, and unjust. The Abrahamic project is broken, alas, alas…
October 25th, 2006 at 11:37 am
Wow - that sounds like a great idea. I’ve had the experiences similar to “J.” - my parents are jehovah’s Witnesses. I’ve always wanted to talk about the Bible in a non-threatening context with people from all different persuasions. It would be a great experience to examine it in terms of literature, ethics, mystery, cultural context, etc. without the baggage of my previous Bible Study…..
October 25th, 2006 at 12:55 pm
I’ve been in several, including one gnostical and one centered aroun the botl. My first BS group (ha ha) was not fruitful, as it was not really a ’study group,’ but indoctrination sessions- I was unceremoniously booted for asking difficult questions. I started my own after that, just some friends in the library with no agenda. It p[retty much led to the realization that nothing I’d ever been taught doctrinarily was actually present in the book. Subsequent attempts have been a lot more interewsting, needless to say, as I acquired gematric skills, historical perspective, and so on.
October 25th, 2006 at 4:15 pm
Ditto. The book is actually magical, no wonder it screws up fundies so badly. After experiencing (something like) what happens in Revelations and Isaiah, I was scared to touch it for a long time: it’s bigger on the inside than the outside.
October 25th, 2006 at 5:20 pm
Tim,
I look at Bible study in pretty much the same vein as the comments I just made on your iconoclasm article. The key is who you take as your guide into the text, which is yet another tool intended to point toward something else.
I personally think that anyone who presumes to act as his own guide is a fool. Being in a group of similar fools doesn’t make it any better.
The only thing that seems unfoolish to me is to seek out someone who can actually teach you what you need to hear and then to accept his teaching — even if it doesn’t fit your prejudices and desire to shape things in your own image.
October 25th, 2006 at 8:05 pm
Go for it!
Many years ago, myself and a group of friends started a bible study. We were mostly newcomers to the Holy Writ. There was one person within the circle who at the time seemed to be fairly educated on on the subject of the Holy Bible, his parents were extremely devout followers of the Holy Bible, too. So he was nominated to be the head cheese. It was interesting for a few weeks, but soon I was turned off by many of his interpretations and he did not repond well to my questioning his interpretations. So I decided to no longer attend that Bible study.
Although I did not agree with much of what the head cheese proclaimed, I did learn a lot from the whole experience.
Tim, I really dig your interest in exploring the worship habits of various religious groups. It’s one thing to read a book on the subject, but to participate in an actual service or ceremony takes a person to another level of understanding. I once attended a Pentecostal worship service and even though I had a minimal belief in Yahweh, my core was shaken that night. The Presence in the sanctuary was so strong to me that I started crying without reason.
October 25th, 2006 at 9:14 pm
I’d recommend trying to start one of your own. Or do you really want to be a Bible School drop-out?
October 25th, 2006 at 9:20 pm
Christopher:
I’m not sure if this is serious or not. Nor am I sure why any of this would seem out of character to people who have followed my work long enough.
Corky:
So, the obvious question here then would be: did you come up with that opinion on your own or did somebody else tell it to you and you accepted meekly?
I think a “BS Group” would be pretty much the perfect name for it. Thanks!
October 25th, 2006 at 10:48 pm
To be honest, yes, someone else told me that.
But I didn’t accept it “meekly”, if by that you mean slavishly, without thinking it through. In fact, my instinctive reaction was to rebel against it. But I resisted the temptation to dismiss it out of hand, and in time I came to see the truth in it.
Now it’s your turn.
October 26th, 2006 at 9:35 pm
P- that’s it exactly, I think.
October 26th, 2006 at 9:45 pm
Man, I would sure love to see somebody put together a serious study of the Bible from a magickal perspective. Likewise, I would love to include that perspective in a more open-ended Bible Study group.
Which I have decided, after careful consideration, to refer to as “No BS Bible Study” which is totally BYOB: Bring Your Own Beliefs (and booze!). More to be announced if and when I get it off the ground successfully.
October 27th, 2006 at 9:29 am
Tim: people have, for instance check out James Morgan Pryse. His books are not much available online, but can be cheaply got in Kessinger reprints. He goes quite aways into the Greek gematria and so forth and was a big source for Crowley (who sucks much more
).
October 27th, 2006 at 12:26 pm
“Man, I would sure love to see somebody put together a serious study of the Bible from a magickal perspective”
Check the thirteenth century.
Otherwise, it’s been done, in buts and pieces, here and there…but it reaqlly is a monumentaql undertaking- and would have to be a labor of love, because where would you sell such a thing?
PS- might borrow the idea when the GU site is finally up. …would be a nice way to inaugurate it (which is hopefully soon, the DH is working on it for me.)
October 27th, 2006 at 2:29 pm
“Don`t expect to much in a discussion with the Unitarians Tim. They are a very nondescript as a group, except they focus on left politics. It may be to thin a gruel of actual intellectual porridge for you. They are mostly political flunkies really.”
Depends, really- I was in a great reading/discussion group with a group from a Unitarian church. The group included two Los Alamos computer scientists, some New Mexico cowboys, an art museum curator, a retired Yale literature professor (who helped start the Asatru Norse Neopagan movement in the U.S.), and assorted others and guests… we had some very interesting and provoking discussions.
“Man, I would sure love to see somebody put together a serious study of the Bible from a magickal perspective.”
Although not quite a complete study of the subject, have you taken a look at Aaron Leitch’s “Secrets of the Magical Grimoires”? He deals extensively with the Bible as a sourcebook of magical procedure and how biblical prophecy and Judaic religion emerged from shamanic and magical practices. Very worth having and reading.
October 27th, 2006 at 3:47 pm
No I haven’t seen that book, but it sounds awesome. The shamanic aspects of the Bible have intrigued me for a long time!