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Podcast 08: Election Day
In which I espouse my perennially unpopular viewpoints about the myths of our democratic institution and suggest that maybe there are better more useful ways we could impact the world and those around us that by shuffling little pieces of paper from place to place.
Articles With Similar Themes:
- Podcast 06: Self-Destructing Ideology
- Podcast 05: Beyond Belief, Pt 2 - The Power of Questions
- Podcast 02: Ah, To Be A Caveman Again…
- Podcast 11: Express Yourself
- Podcast 04: Calling
- Prev: Who Is Mike Jones?
- Next: Cultivating Culture
November 7th, 2006 at 12:51 pm
Tim, do you shun photography for fear it will steal yer soul? *ALL* voting machines are fake? Well … some may be suspect (e.g. Diebold paperless), but to implicate the entire system as broken is hyperbole. So too the “evil” label - not all who make that quip really believe the candidates are literally evil(!) lol
We have a decent level of domestic security, paved roads, and availibility of goods. For whatever reason a two party system is all that seems to work in the USA, but to describe them as “indistinquishable” goes too far as a generalization. In cases it’s true, but not on every level.
Consider whether it’s cynical apathy which has created this so-called “broken system?” Low voter turn out seems to me the cause. Explain to me the real reason Bush can get elected … even a second time? say it with me: “LOW VO TER TURN OUT!”
The masses are apathetic - for the most part - because perhaps we’re too lazy to figure out how the system works (?) Whatza reefer - end- dumb? Like voting, it’s a citzen’s responsibility to educate one’s self on these issues.
Elections are always troublesome historically, but it’s the main way we can deal with issues locally and nationally … even affecting the global stage.
One spiffy development is the online Federal Spending tracker, set to go live in 2008. This will allow anyone to see where tax $ goes, and through which channels. It’ll hopefully put more public pressure on elected officials to eliminate “pork,” and wasteful legistative “earmarks.” The question is who will care enough to lean what this all means.
The biggest cause for concern IMHO is the inroads made by big business to affect legislation. This HAS to change!
Now if’n yer not gonna vote, at least get out, go stand 400 ft away from the polling place of your choice, and hold up a “IF YOU’RE NOT OUTRAGED, YOU’RE NOT PAYING ATTENTION” sign, or something.
No, no we won’t quote Geddy Lee anymore … rather Mark Mothersbaugh:
“Freedom of choice
Is what you got
Freedom from choice
Is what you want.”
voting does, can, and will work!
November 7th, 2006 at 1:51 pm
What can I say? I have considered everything you’re saying very much in the past and I 100% radically disagree. Doesn’t mean I don’t respect you or your right to have your own opinion on the subject.
November 7th, 2006 at 2:18 pm
Actually, (and correct me if I’m wrong) from the stats that I’ve seen, it appears as though the second Bush win had the highest voter turn out in years.
The problem with the famous “democracy myth” which “whatacharacter” just espoused (among several others) is that the more people who turn out to vote, the more it reveals the inherent injustice of the system itself. Assume, in a democratic utopia of sorts, that 100% of the people the government has deemed fit to cast a vote turn up at the polls and vote. Assume further that there are four candidates running for the office up for grabs. The winner simply needs to attract about 25-26% of the votes in order to win, giving a slice of the population control over everyone else. Pardon my bluntness here, but how the fuck exactly does anyone find that to be a system which “can, does and will work”?
As far as trite accusations of “apathy” go, this just seems to be yet another instance of confusing hyped-up illusions with reality. Afterall, perhaps it could be said that rabid voting advocates are truly the ones apathetic to the reality of how things work, as they head to the polls to cast votes not just for candidates, but for legitimizing the entire system itself. Wising up to how things work in the real world of politics has nothing to do with apathy and everything to do with refusing to play along in a charade.
I hate Election Day. I hate all of the sloganeering, patronizing, repetitive”patriotic” rhetoric and obnoxious perpetuation of absurd myths. Voting is a sham and not simply because of the machinery involved. It is a sham because it is a system that is inherently injust and purposely manipulated to make “the people” feel as though they actually have some kind of say or control over their governments and supposedly “elected” officials. It is a day in which we espouse blatantly dishonest bromides, like “Politicians and institutional authorities work for you!” If you are still one of the hapless souls who believes this sort of elementary school fluff, then I’d encourage you to take a trip to your local congressman’s office and start telling him/her what you’d like done for you. Go down to city hall and start ordering around your mayor, police officers, etc, etc. See how far it gets you.
The truth is that Election Day is simply a day in which we celebrate our mass gullibility and collective desire to have our personal obsessions with our own “opinions” masturbated in some way. We so desperately want to believe that our opinions count for something and that the people running things are waiting on baited breath to hear about our glorious opinions and desires. Give me a break.
November 7th, 2006 at 2:24 pm
Election Day is essentially the same as celebrity award shows: they serve to validate our experience of media personalities who are endlessly marketed towards us as role models. We stay up late, hoping to see if our favorite actors and movies will take home this year’s Oscar, and then feel sleighted when they don’t. At least as far as presidential elections are concerned, Oscars work in roughly the same way: it is the Academy (aka, the Electoral College) which make the final decision. Even the words “Academy” and “College” carry similar connotations: the elite, the educated are entrusted to make the final decision.
November 7th, 2006 at 2:28 pm
I wrote mine as well as I too share similar views with Tim about voting. great podcast buddy. Keep it up!
November 7th, 2006 at 2:43 pm
Hey Bret, gonna go read your piece now. Always liked talking about this stuff with you.
One other random point for people to consider:
What is going to have greater impact: your writing some names on a slip of paper of who you’d prefer to see controlling you, or a corporation donating millions of dollars to both sides so that no matter who wins, they are thoroughly owned?
Nice quote from Bret’s piece:
http://ikantspell.blogspot.com/2006/11/voting.html
It certainly would be much more direct!
November 7th, 2006 at 3:08 pm
this is from the warren ellis comic, transmetropolitan
November 7th, 2006 at 5:47 pm
Well, I voted today and the heavens opened up and George Warshingtin smiled upon me, releasing cherub babies to bless me brow with laurels! haha!
Tim … you respect my right to an opinion, but would ya fight to the death for that right? haha!
Sure let me espouse more jargon and rhetoric. Now, never did I say the “system” works! I did I say however that voting can, does and will work … so, maybe not all the time I’ll concede, but sometimes, which is my point.
Tim and I live in a state with a democratic female governor, and two democratic female senators. How the hell did THAT happen?? voting.
Voting is the only way I’m gonna have a say in my property taxes, or if my region can ever get an effective light rail system.
People take up sides, and let the populace help decide.
After seeing some of the comments, I might suspect some, especially J., who view the mighty winds of election day as an injust system of hocus pocus, can’t see past the dirty stuff and really see the real “reality”
This coming from a strictly non-rabid voting advocate: voting is more than a system, it’s a social contract whereby we can have our say throught out the entire process (a huge voluntary commitment). It’s an obligation towards your “neighbors” and protecting society, not giving into political fatcats. This includes teaching “the next generation” about how their public opinion can sway the nation, and not allow others to make the decision for you.
Aha! you say … “But they already made the decision without me - I wouldn’t have made a difference.”
Well then after I tell you I see lot’s of examples on the local level where voting counts (preceded by letter writing campaigns and petition signing), you tell me how it can never work for the national elections? … or explain to me what DO YOU DO to have a say? Volunteering in soup kitchens doesn’t equal “having a say” (… but it couldn’t hurt)!
If it’s not voting, then I guess the next Revolution will decide wha hoppins … however unless my trite accusations of an apathetic population is wrong, I don’t see that happening anytime soon. I guess we missed our chance after the Gore debacle, and we’re firmly nailed in our corporate coffins, until Ceaser marches into Rome and delivers us from the clutches of the aristocracy.
So who votes? I’d say its mainly 2 groups that count: large interest blocs, and individual issue-educated free-thinkers who realize it’s a small contribution, but one, none-the-less.
Then tell me what might happen when the individuals are able to create a concerned citizen group en masse, and form a large interest bloc??? For me, this is the “system” that counts, and I’ll work toward.
I need to see some effort in some direction for youse palookas. Then I’ll stop saying “complain all you want, but by joining up with the majority of non-voters, you’ve abrogated the first simple step in making the change you want.”
or … if ya dont love me or my country enough to vote and advocate for your citizenry - even if it’s a protest vote - move to the USSR. haha!
November 7th, 2006 at 6:00 pm
zac - your contribution also might describe a bad Friday night out, a Rob Zombie flick … or not voting too …
It’s as if too many feel like all-alone drops-in-buckets who have no ability to affect change … this may be the saddest implication in all this.
worse than all the delusional corruption-supporting voters ????
November 7th, 2006 at 6:03 pm
Check this out, whatacharacter, and think about how it is used to create political parties and forge consensus so that you believe your opinions are your own:
http://www.conspiracyarchive.com/NewAge/Delphi_Technique.htm
PS. I don’t think revolution is the answer either. I think revolution is just as much a waste of time as voting. Maybe more! The answer isn’t political. Turn down the noise.
November 7th, 2006 at 6:05 pm
So, in other words, you should make the decision for everyone else, because you’re the arbiter of what’s good and right in the world?
November 7th, 2006 at 8:37 pm
Excellent - thanks for the link, I’m eager to read more, and I appreciate the dialogue here!
Secondly - only in completely other words. The two arguements aren’t of equal weight. However if you mean we are personal agents of interest, or effecting change, then yes we should have the freedom as individuals to affect public causes by being allowed to voice our nay or yeah.
This is the point, hopefully motivated by our own informed and enlightened consciences … which is why I haven’t figured out what you risk to lose by voting(?) The action speaks. The inaction is silence.
November 7th, 2006 at 9:01 pm
It is not a matter of “risk”. It is a matter of compromising my beliefs and authorizing someone else to act on my behalf who therefore has free reign to run rampant for however many years.
Voting is not action. As you said in that sentence, that “action speaks” - voting is speaking. In my opinion, speaking into the wind.
What part of what I am doing, or have said, do you believe to be silence? Perhaps what we need is actually more “silence” anyway - to turn down the volume on ceaseless argue, squabbling and political nonsense. Actions don’t “speak.” Speaking speaks. Actions are silent. Silence is what we need.
November 8th, 2006 at 3:28 pm
Rumsfeld resigns. Santorum is out. The Dems have the House.
Who says voting doesn’t matter?
Oh, that’s right… all the cynics.
See where cynicism gets you?
Nowhere.
Let me put it this way: Republicans wouldn’t feel the need to steal elections if voting weren’t relevant.
But now what? The Dems aren’t any better.
At least the system works… but is it too late?
November 8th, 2006 at 5:20 pm
Well, that’s part of my point. And I’m not cynical in the least. Cynical would be saying that everything is broken and there’s nothing we can do. I don’t believe that at all. I believe we should simply build our own playgrounds outside of the existing formal structures. I see that as entirely optimistic.
And so now what we will see will most likely be the Democrats modulating their message into a more “shiny-happy” face for everything that’s already going on. Everyone will be happy for a while until they realize very little has actually changed. The only thing that has changed is that we have voted into place a new marketing strategy for the same old agenda.
November 8th, 2006 at 5:39 pm
yeah, they’re out. and now they’ll have to face the music and accept justice for all the crimes they’ve committed and all the lives they’ve ruined and ended, right?
right?
o wait, no they won’t. they’ll get to retire into their million (and billion)-dollar fortunes and die contented of old age.
thank god this fucking election is over.
November 8th, 2006 at 8:01 pm
Best election comment, from Ran Prieur
November 8th, 2006 at 8:55 pm
I imagine a buncha dead trees… as people promptly forget to provide further care for their poor little saplings & trot off in a self -important ‘green’ glow in order to go purchase the latest flex-fuel, variable displacement SUV (because that is the environmentally responsible thing to do), now that gas prices are lower than their summer peak…
Now, here’s one for ya: imagine if people took personal responsibility seriously… planted & cared for a fruit-bearing sapling… voted & considered civic participation worth taking seriously… lived by the golden rule & minded their own shit… etc., etc…
November 9th, 2006 at 12:24 am
Tim, I appreciate silence as much as you do (perhaps more since I have a house of teenagers to deal with), but you sound like that Depressed Mood song “Words are very unnecessary They can only do harm … Enjoy the silence.”
Sadly silence avails shit. In this case, as an gnostioccultist, you are aware the power of words. Having a “say” and voting are very much actions of the will, and go somewhere and count somewhat. This is a very important subject - I know you agree, since you brought it up - and I am willing to run the risk of being labeled a “rabid voting advocate” to go on about it some more.
Political chatterboxes might annoy some with party rhetoric and nasty slinging, but since the days of the Greek agora, chattering, arguing, and vigorous debate have always been the way of the political marketplace. Admittedly its not always a place for weak stomachs, and a healthy perspective (and sense of humor) can help innoculate one.
Now, I’m not sure who is being more paranoid, but I hope that link on the Delphi technique wasn’t aimed at my feeble humor attempts (haha’s), misinterpreted to discredit or ridicule your views. If I was a “change agent” I’d surely employ more subtle and cunning artifices … haha. But while persuasion aimed at mind control and manipulation may work on some of the people some of the time, it doesn’t … well, you know the quote.
In light of the glorious non-violent revolution of the people of the USA, and the happy results of the day (bye-bye Rummy!) I’d encourage you and other protesting non voters to seriously consider INDUCTIVE logic.
While some politicians, strategists, polsters, correspondants, journalists, opinion editors, pundits, authors, professors, etc., may be evil, run amok, luciferian cabalsters intent of destroying the stuff, and breaking the system, there are more folks like us with their eyes open watching out.
Corruption happens. Love of money is always an evil root. However the sheer weight of people who value life (AND liberty, and pursuit of the stuff), will win out according to my odds. It’s this weight of people who share views that vote and see results that change society. It’s an important tool in our hands. It’s nice that you don’t presume to afflict others with your views … I imagine you’ll be closing your websites down now *winky smirk* (I realize you dont necessarily aim to change people’s material conditions, but tree planting is nice too, and I’d prefer to delve more into things of the heart and spirit anyway myself) …
Finally, state minimum wages have been raised, and other spiffy social reforms are in the works now that the House AND Senate AND committee chairs are in another party’s control. Who controlled that circumstance? No electoral college or activist judges, neither (to a marginal degree), money and name recognition in so many cases… rather voters did.
November 9th, 2006 at 10:21 am
I didn’t vote, for two connected reasons:
1) the whole they’re-all-crooks-controlled-by-the-millionaires thing, and
2) the realization that, to the extent that there is a difference between the parties and candidates, I
(a) don’t know which would make things worse and
(b) don’t think I have the smarts or the right to decide how other people’s lives should be.
November 9th, 2006 at 1:46 pm
So why not vote on local issues, referendums, propositions or Judges who want to legalize pot?
What evidence can you provide to show that millionaires control all politicians down to the local level? If you “don’t know- don’t think” on the other points, how do you have such smarts to make your #1 generalization?
November 9th, 2006 at 1:58 pm
Isn’t there old line to the effect that comedians can get away with telling the truth as long as they make their audience laugh…because otherwise the audience’d just kill ‘em? Methinks Scott Adams proves that bit of wisdom here: The Stuff In My Head (via Relaxed Focus)
November 9th, 2006 at 7:04 pm
Good point. I don’t think “millionaires control all politics down to the local level” and I apologize for making it seem like I did. I was referring more to corporate/millionaire influence at the national and to a certain extent the state levels. As for local issues on my local ballot, they all fell under the heading of “I don’t know what to put.”
Which brings me to the question of I’m smart enough to make the first generalization if I’m not smart enough to vote:
First, I don’t know if my first generalization about the millionaires is true on the national and/or state level, though this is what seems to be the case what with K Street lobbyists writing. Even though it seems really likely to me does not mean that I’m sure to the extent that I would help ruin someone else’s life through voting accordingly. To be short — I’m pretty sure, I’m just not sure enough.
Second, it’s not so much that I think that millionaires control everything that happens at the national/state level as much as they seem to have way too much influence, especially seeing that I personally would like them to have little or no influence anyway. I don’t really think in terms of grand conspiracies or corporations micromanaging every aspect of policy (I think that many issues we argue about couldn’t matter less to corporate officers in general). Rather, I just think that the millionaires and the representatives of the major corporations seem to have a pretty easy time making sure that nobody stands in their way.
I think we should vote for CEOs anyway.
November 9th, 2006 at 7:07 pm
Oh yeah, a message to anybody: Please don’t bother trying to guilt-trip me for not voting.
November 9th, 2006 at 10:16 pm
Haven’t had a chance to listen yet, but was skimming the comments, and right after reading this comment by Tim:
I hopped over to my own blog and this was the random quote that came up:
I thought it pertinent.
November 9th, 2006 at 10:25 pm
Weird, those two quotes seemed to fit together a lot better before I hit ’submit’ than they do now… Basically the common thread is that the system, and the voters who believe in and/or participate in it, are made up of extremists pit against each other and people having to pick between the two - neither one better than the other.
Meanwhile those of us who are sane (moderate, balanced)… are, or should be, busy actually doing things that matter - things that don’t just play into the perpetuation of the aforementioned insanity.