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	<title>Comments on: Retro-Causality at the University of Washington</title>
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	<pubDate>Sun, 22 Nov 2009 21:14:34 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: zenbullets.com &#187; Blog Archive &#187; &#8220;Free Will Is An Illusion&#8221;, proved using Comic Book Quantum Mechanics</title>
		<link>http://www.timboucher.com/journal/2006/11/15/retro-causality-at-the-university-of-washington/comment-page-1/#comment-104673</link>
		<dc:creator>zenbullets.com &#187; Blog Archive &#187; &#8220;Free Will Is An Illusion&#8221;, proved using Comic Book Quantum Mechanics</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Apr 2008 22:25:43 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>[...] This is a demonstration of the Einstein-Podolsky-Rosen paradox, two particles which cannot communicate faster than the speed of light, somehow stay entangled, by some crazy sub-quantum force beyond our understanding. The best explanation that physics has offered to explain this phenomenon is that the two particles are linked by reverse causality, that they are sending messages to each other back in time to a point when they were still entangled. It&#8217;s called the Transactional Interpretation, and it seems to be the most consistent (i.e. paradox free) theory of Quantum Mechanics we have at the moment. Seriously, this is the best they&#8217;ve come up with. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] This is a demonstration of the Einstein-Podolsky-Rosen paradox, two particles which cannot communicate faster than the speed of light, somehow stay entangled, by some crazy sub-quantum force beyond our understanding. The best explanation that physics has offered to explain this phenomenon is that the two particles are linked by reverse causality, that they are sending messages to each other back in time to a point when they were still entangled. It&#8217;s called the Transactional Interpretation, and it seems to be the most consistent (i.e. paradox free) theory of Quantum Mechanics we have at the moment. Seriously, this is the best they&#8217;ve come up with. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: p</title>
		<link>http://www.timboucher.com/journal/2006/11/15/retro-causality-at-the-university-of-washington/comment-page-1/#comment-24980</link>
		<dc:creator>p</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Nov 2006 17:44:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.timboucher.com/journal/2006/11/15/retro-causality-at-the-university-of-washington/#comment-24980</guid>
		<description>Further reading:
Is Movement An Illusion? Zeno's Paradox From a Modern Viewpoint
hxxp://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/CDMTCS//researchreports/089walter.pdf

Counterfactual Computation may allow super-Turing hypercomputation (imo, bigger news than "the program didn't run"):
hxxp://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/CDMTCS//researchreports/107cds.pdf

&lt;blockquote&gt;It is vain to look in expectation, or believe ourselves in the hereditary possession, of a treasure, without so much as opening or suspecting even the casket in which it is shut up. &lt;strong&gt;The common elements of Nature obscure their Divine Original, and Chemistry and all our experimental physics drive it forcibly&lt;/strong&gt; without the means of Identification. Yet as the experienced Chemist knows how, by a skillful application of his art, to analyze the common elements, and distill them to a high virtue and strength of refinement, so the Alchemists long since have taught by a more subtle apparatus and artifice, and tests more cogent than all, to rectify the Universal Element, and compress its invisible vapor into a tangible Form.&lt;/blockquote&gt;
-Mary Anne Atwood</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Further reading:<br />
Is Movement An Illusion? Zeno&#8217;s Paradox From a Modern Viewpoint<br />
hxxp://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/CDMTCS//researchreports/089walter.pdf</p>
<p>Counterfactual Computation may allow super-Turing hypercomputation (imo, bigger news than &#8220;the program didn&#8217;t run&#8221;):<br />
hxxp://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/CDMTCS//researchreports/107cds.pdf</p>
<blockquote><p>It is vain to look in expectation, or believe ourselves in the hereditary possession, of a treasure, without so much as opening or suspecting even the casket in which it is shut up. <strong>The common elements of Nature obscure their Divine Original, and Chemistry and all our experimental physics drive it forcibly</strong> without the means of Identification. Yet as the experienced Chemist knows how, by a skillful application of his art, to analyze the common elements, and distill them to a high virtue and strength of refinement, so the Alchemists long since have taught by a more subtle apparatus and artifice, and tests more cogent than all, to rectify the Universal Element, and compress its invisible vapor into a tangible Form.</p></blockquote>
<p>-Mary Anne Atwood</p>
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		<title>By: p</title>
		<link>http://www.timboucher.com/journal/2006/11/15/retro-causality-at-the-university-of-washington/comment-page-1/#comment-24977</link>
		<dc:creator>p</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Nov 2006 16:18:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.timboucher.com/journal/2006/11/15/retro-causality-at-the-university-of-washington/#comment-24977</guid>
		<description>Oh, the rough gist of how the non-running QM algorithm works is by tying the probability that the Grover search algorithm ran to a particular possible output. If the program does not run, you know that that particular output was the correct answer. If the program does run, you get the partial information that it must be one of the other outputs. The chained Zeno effect tries to extend this effect to the entire space of output possibilities by keeping the algorithm from decohering (i.e. becoming unpredictably entangled with the environment) and is used here as an error-reduction technique, since otherwise the error would explode when trying to extend "counterfactual computation" (misleading term) to the entire set of possible outputs.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh, the rough gist of how the non-running QM algorithm works is by tying the probability that the Grover search algorithm ran to a particular possible output. If the program does not run, you know that that particular output was the correct answer. If the program does run, you get the partial information that it must be one of the other outputs. The chained Zeno effect tries to extend this effect to the entire space of output possibilities by keeping the algorithm from decohering (i.e. becoming unpredictably entangled with the environment) and is used here as an error-reduction technique, since otherwise the error would explode when trying to extend &#8220;counterfactual computation&#8221; (misleading term) to the entire set of possible outputs.</p>
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		<title>By: p</title>
		<link>http://www.timboucher.com/journal/2006/11/15/retro-causality-at-the-university-of-washington/comment-page-1/#comment-24976</link>
		<dc:creator>p</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Nov 2006 16:07:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.timboucher.com/journal/2006/11/15/retro-causality-at-the-university-of-washington/#comment-24976</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;Wow! â€œto search a region of space without actually entering that region of space.â€ - Arenâ€™t they describing intuition? &lt;/blockquote&gt;

No. We all (including professional physicists) need to be very careful when trying to intuit the results of quantum experiments. The amount of distance between the final machine readout and the quantum phenomenon that makes the algorithm work is HUGE, and the distance between our symbolic mind has to go to produce some narrative out of these readouts is perhaps even longer.

Read this (short, with easy math) article to understand how 'entanglement' and 'observation' are related, afterwards, you will hardly be able to read a single pop-sci article without getting angry at the absurd interpretations they come up with just because they

Quantum Mysteries Disentangled:
hxxp://www.flownet.com/ron/QM.pdf

Here is another short article explaining Bell's Theorem.
hxxp://world.std.com/~reinhold/bellsinequalities.html

Now, to understand a little how the quantum algorithm can "run without running" (try to) read this link, the example they use to illustrate the point should raise your eyebrows! (Since they provide adequate caveats, this is in fact a reasonable illustration of the phenomenon!)
hxxp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantum_Zeno_effect

QM is very interesting and teaches us a lot, but it is such an &lt;em&gt;indirect&lt;/em&gt; science, we cannot really trust our intuitions regarding it one whit.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Wow! â€œto search a region of space without actually entering that region of space.â€ - Arenâ€™t they describing intuition? </p></blockquote>
<p>No. We all (including professional physicists) need to be very careful when trying to intuit the results of quantum experiments. The amount of distance between the final machine readout and the quantum phenomenon that makes the algorithm work is HUGE, and the distance between our symbolic mind has to go to produce some narrative out of these readouts is perhaps even longer.</p>
<p>Read this (short, with easy math) article to understand how &#8216;entanglement&#8217; and &#8216;observation&#8217; are related, afterwards, you will hardly be able to read a single pop-sci article without getting angry at the absurd interpretations they come up with just because they</p>
<p>Quantum Mysteries Disentangled:<br />
hxxp://www.flownet.com/ron/QM.pdf</p>
<p>Here is another short article explaining Bell&#8217;s Theorem.<br />
hxxp://world.std.com/~reinhold/bellsinequalities.html</p>
<p>Now, to understand a little how the quantum algorithm can &#8220;run without running&#8221; (try to) read this link, the example they use to illustrate the point should raise your eyebrows! (Since they provide adequate caveats, this is in fact a reasonable illustration of the phenomenon!)<br />
hxxp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantum_Zeno_effect</p>
<p>QM is very interesting and teaches us a lot, but it is such an <em>indirect</em> science, we cannot really trust our intuitions regarding it one whit.</p>
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		<title>By: Tim Boucher</title>
		<link>http://www.timboucher.com/journal/2006/11/15/retro-causality-at-the-university-of-washington/comment-page-1/#comment-24972</link>
		<dc:creator>Tim Boucher</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Nov 2006 10:41:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.timboucher.com/journal/2006/11/15/retro-causality-at-the-university-of-washington/#comment-24972</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;does that mean that thinking about them made the phone ring? No: but thinking about them made the phoneâ€™s ringing /significant/&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Yes! And I sort of have another post on this tomorrow. 

&lt;blockquote&gt;he has no rational explanation for where hypotheses come from&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Whoa! Awesome - right there in the core of science!

&lt;blockquote&gt;nd self-supporting cycles are an important property of living creaturesâ€¦ &lt;/blockquote&gt;

YES! Feedback loops! Wait for my post tomorrow!

&lt;blockquote&gt;what else is an omen but an effect of something that hasnâ€™t happened yet?&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Very succintly put. Man, good stuff. Gotta go to bed though.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>does that mean that thinking about them made the phone ring? No: but thinking about them made the phoneâ€™s ringing /significant/</p></blockquote>
<p>Yes! And I sort of have another post on this tomorrow. </p>
<blockquote><p>he has no rational explanation for where hypotheses come from</p></blockquote>
<p>Whoa! Awesome - right there in the core of science!</p>
<blockquote><p>nd self-supporting cycles are an important property of living creaturesâ€¦ </p></blockquote>
<p>YES! Feedback loops! Wait for my post tomorrow!</p>
<blockquote><p>what else is an omen but an effect of something that hasnâ€™t happened yet?</p></blockquote>
<p>Very succintly put. Man, good stuff. Gotta go to bed though.</p>
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		<title>By: speedbird</title>
		<link>http://www.timboucher.com/journal/2006/11/15/retro-causality-at-the-university-of-washington/comment-page-1/#comment-24969</link>
		<dc:creator>speedbird</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Nov 2006 09:16:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.timboucher.com/journal/2006/11/15/retro-causality-at-the-university-of-washington/#comment-24969</guid>
		<description>So I've been thinking about all this time and science and serendipity stuff you're writing.

If you're thinking about someone, and the phone rings, does that mean that thinking about them made the phone ring? No: but thinking about them made the phone's ringing /significant/. In fact, it's no more than science: you choose to make observations based on hypotheses. Where do hypotheses come from? People making observations. One of the best bits of Zen &#38; the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance is where Phaedrus realises he has no rational explanation for where hypotheses come from. I'm inclined to agree with him - they're definitely trans-rational. Observations and hypotheses exist in a self-stoking cycle (there's cyclic time for you!). And self-supporting cycles are an important property of living creatures... lots of interesting connections to be made here. The Ouroboros is an interesting thing to ponder. A serpent with its tail in its mouth: what is happening?

It's worth noting that ancient civilisations had less of a problem with reversed cause and effect: what else is an omen but an effect of something that hasn't happened yet?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So I&#8217;ve been thinking about all this time and science and serendipity stuff you&#8217;re writing.</p>
<p>If you&#8217;re thinking about someone, and the phone rings, does that mean that thinking about them made the phone ring? No: but thinking about them made the phone&#8217;s ringing /significant/. In fact, it&#8217;s no more than science: you choose to make observations based on hypotheses. Where do hypotheses come from? People making observations. One of the best bits of Zen &amp; the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance is where Phaedrus realises he has no rational explanation for where hypotheses come from. I&#8217;m inclined to agree with him - they&#8217;re definitely trans-rational. Observations and hypotheses exist in a self-stoking cycle (there&#8217;s cyclic time for you!). And self-supporting cycles are an important property of living creatures&#8230; lots of interesting connections to be made here. The Ouroboros is an interesting thing to ponder. A serpent with its tail in its mouth: what is happening?</p>
<p>It&#8217;s worth noting that ancient civilisations had less of a problem with reversed cause and effect: what else is an omen but an effect of something that hasn&#8217;t happened yet?</p>
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		<title>By: Tim Boucher</title>
		<link>http://www.timboucher.com/journal/2006/11/15/retro-causality-at-the-university-of-washington/comment-page-1/#comment-24957</link>
		<dc:creator>Tim Boucher</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Nov 2006 01:13:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.timboucher.com/journal/2006/11/15/retro-causality-at-the-university-of-washington/#comment-24957</guid>
		<description>Wow! "to search a region of space without actually entering that region of space." - Aren't they describing intuition?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wow! &#8220;to search a region of space without actually entering that region of space.&#8221; - Aren&#8217;t they describing intuition?</p>
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		<title>By: Aditi Tahiti</title>
		<link>http://www.timboucher.com/journal/2006/11/15/retro-causality-at-the-university-of-washington/comment-page-1/#comment-24956</link>
		<dc:creator>Aditi Tahiti</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Nov 2006 00:51:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.timboucher.com/journal/2006/11/15/retro-causality-at-the-university-of-washington/#comment-24956</guid>
		<description>if &lt;a href="http://www.physorg.com/news11087.html" rel="nofollow"&gt; can work, I don't see any reason why this won't.&lt;/a&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>if <a href="http://www.physorg.com/news11087.html" rel="nofollow"> can work, I don&#8217;t see any reason why this won&#8217;t.</a></p>
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