Comments on: Reduce, Reuse, Recycle

By: skip sievert

skip sievert — Wed, 29 Nov 2006 01:02:04 +0000

The truth has a lively changing face.

By: Ted Heistman

Ted Heistman — Tue, 28 Nov 2006 22:18:44 +0000

I am kind of interested in this new development. I am a former Christian more in the sense of being a failed Christian I think. I don’t think Christians are full of shit really. I’ll be following your esoteric interpretation of the gospels with interest.

If you seek the truth you will have to take new directions if that is where the truth leads you. I am going through a similar direction change.

By: speedbird

speedbird — Tue, 28 Nov 2006 13:40:55 +0000

Well, beggar me, look what I ran into on Fantastic Planet:

Matthew 18:20: â€œWhere there are two or three gathered in my name, there am I in their midst.â€

Frankly this whole topic scares the crap out of me. Some Big Bad Ugly lurks at the bottom of it, I sense. My thinking on it is half-formed, as evidenced by my poorly expressed first post on this thread, which I feel really bad about. But running into something like that passage… which is kind of exactly what I’m trying to say… that’s just crazy.

By: alistair

alistair — Tue, 28 Nov 2006 13:22:06 +0000

controlling and changing are two different things though. but people do control and change others, for good and for bad. many times people ask to be controlled and look to be changed. there are entire industries providing these services and whole cultures devoted to control and change.

By: speedbird

speedbird — Tue, 28 Nov 2006 09:20:32 +0000

Skip… absolutely right, no-one can change anyone else. But people do change through meeting other people. My point is there’s a good way and a bad way this happens.

By: speedbird

speedbird — Tue, 28 Nov 2006 09:12:41 +0000

Not options, alistair, simultaneous activities…

but yes, you’ve begged the question of that random ramble I posted last night (apologies if it was a wee bit obtuse): this whole issue of causing change in the world seems to encapsulate two forces: a creative and a consumptive.

A candle burns… the candle is consumed and light is created. Wax melts and the melt-pool vaporizes and the vapour burns. Which happens first? It’s a meaningless question: they all happen simultaneously in a self-sustaining cycle.

So I sit and contemplate the ouroboros…

By: alistair

alistair — Mon, 27 Nov 2006 21:28:13 +0000

i think you can control another person. i think what mr. speedbird is saying that his four points are options. whether you should control others is a moral and ethical choice we all have to sort out for ourselves. as a parent i have to control my children or utter chaos will ensue………..especially when they are on chocolate.
tim, the passage you quoted above is particularly appropriate in my life at this time as i am facing some harsh criticism on several fronts. blog on brother……….

By: skip sievert

skip sievert — Mon, 27 Nov 2006 20:15:09 +0000

Well good. Maybe you are using the bible the way Jimi Hendrix used the Blues.

As a jumping off point for a creative experiment.

Jimi loved the Blues and could play them , It was his basis , but not his artistic achievement, which was his own thing, that he invented.

Mr. Speedbird , I suggest that you have a lot of control issue`s.
You can not control another human.
People always do what they want to do. Relationships can not be artificially made. All relationships find their own level. No thought required.
Good luck Tim.

By: speedbird

speedbird — Mon, 27 Nov 2006 19:12:15 +0000

Been missing the ‘blog, dude… good to see ya back.

As I mulled over your recent posts in the shower just now, two puzzle-pieces joined in my mind. And I think it’s kind of relevant to this post about internal / external life and privacy. It’s about individuality: it came to me that this ‘individuality’, distinguishing oneself from one’s environment and one’s fellows, is perhaps /necessary but not sufficient/ for value. That felt kinda right: like this thing about the free market I’ve had rolling around my head: the free market /can/ create wealth but /need not/.

The other puzzle-piece goes like this: what happens when one individual meets another? Several things (four, I think) are possible:

1. I do what I’m told, submit to the other
2. I give the other respect and try and learn about his/her culture
3. I do what I like, get on with my life
4. I try and bring something new to the relationship, change the other person.

Now this is a crossroads of no less than two contradictory sets of actions: do what you’re told vs. do what you like; learn about the other / do something new. But this is what’s cool: taken as a whole, those four things are merely what any /friend/ does.

Basically, you might be right: there is something very important hiding in the interactions between individuals (dinner with friends, anyone?)