explains how there is actually only one being, existing in quantum superposition as all beings. Awareness as an individual is a result of the perspective provided by differentiation, which is enhanced through biological complexity (skin, senses, brains, etc…).

Brahman and atman…

Apparently Christ also said there is but one body, but Christians seem to interpret “body” as meaning the Church. I wonder if the original text refers to the body as a Temple, which would make more sense as the temple is a metaphor for the Cosmos as well as the Body.

Aha! Very good lead. I will try and track this down during the daylight hours: references to the body in the Bible. Seeing as Jesus was essentially a grain-god transposed, it would only make sense to look at the creation myths of cultures where the father god is dismembered and his body used to create the universe - which certainly is echoed in the whole Adam’s rib scenario - nevermind is blatant in the movie, “The Fountain.”

a race of super-beings who want to forget what it`s like to be all-knowing for a while

I have heard this lecture as well. Its a great one. Maybe what he means by “Race” could be better thought of in terms of running a race, instead of ethnic-race - that is, engaging into the practice of time, passing the baton from one form to the next….

the belief that we are all part of one witness is a tantalising one. alan watts tells a story about a race of super-beings who want to forget what it`s like to be all-knowing for a while and forget to go back to being super-beings again.

maybe that`s what happened to us………..

fuj, is there really anything outside consciousness?

Hehe, I thought my previous post made it clear that such a question would be meaningless if consciousness (which might as well mean “the stuff dreams are made of”) is synonymous with space.

It’s all the same experience. And I don’t mean that in an abstract mystical idealist way. I mean it very concretely. There is no fundamental difference between any of us.

Totally loving where you’re going with that! I’m trying to find this essay online by a female author who explains how there is actually only one being, existing in quantum superposition as all beings. Awareness as an individual is a result of the perspective provided by differentiation, which is enhanced through biological complexity (skin, senses, brains, etc…).

Apparently Christ also said there is but one body, but Christians seem to interpret “body” as meaning the Church. I wonder if the original text refers to the body as a Temple, which would make more sense as the temple is a metaphor for the Cosmos as well as the Body.

In my experience, mind and body occur [i]within[/i] consciousness.

Totally loving where you are going with these comments

in sessions i help my clients evaluate thier reality by finding out where the store thier experiences. for instance if i ask someone to point to cetainty, they will invariably point to an area outside of thier head somewhere, generally a point in front slightly above the horizon varying distances away.

we all locate our experiences in slightly different locations, but with similarities given personality types.

i can predict, for instance, if someone is prone to headaches or stiff necks by how they locate thier past experiences and how thier timelines move in relation to thier head, and also how they keep appointments.

fuj, is there really anything outside consciousness?

fuj, I totally agree that we are in [consciousness], but I don’t see the difference between mind and consciousness.

In my experience, mind and body occur [i]within[/i] consciousness. There is nothing outside of consciousness, whereas there is obviously something outside mind, and something outside the body (relatively speaking). The fish is the last to know water. The dreamer is the dream.

I’m not only arguing that it has a location, but that location is not outside the body.

Non-local does not mean outside the body. Space is non-local; it is everywhere and nowhere. On one level it’s in between bodies; on another it’s in between particles; on a baser scale, space is actually indistinguishable from energy (string theory). The only things we can say for sure about “stuff” is that it always appears to us as information, and it always appears to us [i]within[/i] consciousness.

Btw, space as consciousness does not entail awareness. Awareness arises from perspective, which is lacking in non-locality. Furthermore, non-local consciousness allows for paranormal phenomena. Materialist reductionism does not, or it has to resort to silly etheric connections and what not.

and if the synaptic events happen simultaneously or with a lag for the brain functions to do some editing, doesn’t that help the argument that mind is brain?

No, not at all. Especially if there is a lag. If there is a lag then it diminishes the argument that mind is brain

we agree that the brain appears to construct conscious awareness

No, I don’t agree to that. There’s no proof that “conscious awareness” even exists.

I agree there seems to be a disconnect

That I agree with.

why non-locality

Because it is a conceptual wedge designed (perhaps poorly) to help open up a crack between worlds…

I can’t have an awareness of your sense experience nor you mine.

You don’t have any proof of that beyond that you don’t think you’ve experienced it yet. Have you ever been to the moon? That doesn’t mean you can’t go there.

I can’t meditate long enough to reach a place where I can come into contact with someone else’s experience.

Part of my point is too that I don’t think we *need* to meditate to experience other people’s experiences - because there’s no such thing. It’s all the same experience. And I don’t mean that in an abstract mystical idealist way. I mean it very concretely. There is no fundamental difference between any of us.

Doesn’t that lead to a personal location?

I don’t know. Why is it so important that we have a physical location at all?

My experience of smell at least has a location inside my head

No it doesn’t. That’s not your experience. That is a synaptic firing which can be traced as occuring simultaneously to what you are describing as your experience.

If you join that with this quote I posted today:

The human brain appears to construct conscious awareness in an after-the-fact fashion. People perceive events about eithy milliseconds after they have occurred, just a bit longer than the blink of an eye. The brain appears to use this time lag to carry out fancy editing tricks.

That leaves us with an even greater impression of there being a disconnect. You could just as easily say that the neurons being fired during your experience of smell are actually your brain performing editing tricks associated with the physical mechanisms of smelling. Or you could say that your brain functions to protect you against the experience of smelling by altering it

I don’t know if yoga is about overriding the demands of the body. It seems more about grounding yourself in the here-and-now, which can have the effect of transcending the perceived mind/body barrier.

I don’t see how that’s different. Sounds like a different linguistic/conceptual costume on the same actor.

What it means is that we need a new way of thinking about metaphysics.

Why? We don’t even understand our old ways of thinking about metaphysics. And again, I don’t think what you’re describing about stimulating areas of the brain is any different from what yoga is meant to do - except it uses the technology of our bodies to do it.

Also, pointing to the part of the brain that lights up when you smell something is NOT equivalent to pointing to your sense of smell. It’s no different from pointing to your nose and saying that’s your sense of smell. Your sense of smell is your *experience* of smell and it can only be pointed to be its activation, its engagement. And it has no location.

Cognitive science and the philosophy of mind seem to [added] indicate that mind is an emergent property of the brain, or an epiphenomenon of neural activity.

Mind yes, consciousness no. Mind is thought; consciousness is mental space, which is more likely non-local. Current scientific paradigm has excluded the ultimate objective truth of our existence from its rulebook: the subjectivity of experience. At the end of the day, everything exists within conciousness. You cannot find consciousness; you are in it.

An interesting phenomenon to check it out if you haven’t already is muscle testing, a technique used in Applied Kinesiology. Example: hold your left arm out straight, and say “My name is _insert real name_. Then have somebody push down on your wrist forcefully. Resist this with upward force in your arm. Then repeat this with the same amount of force, but before the arm-push say “My name is _insert random name of opposite sex_”. You can also do it in the reverse order. Just pay attention to what happens when your arm is pushed.

an emergent property of the brain, or an epiphenomenon of neural activity.

Which means what exactly to one’s own life? Nothing, as far as I can tell