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	<title>Comments on: Sovereign Identity</title>
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	<pubDate>Sun, 22 Nov 2009 18:27:55 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: speedbird</title>
		<link>http://www.timboucher.com/journal/2006/12/09/sovereign-identity/comment-page-1/#comment-26362</link>
		<dc:creator>speedbird</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 11 Dec 2006 16:40:32 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>I feel the cautionary tale of Belshazzar is somehow relevant (Chapter 5 of the book of Daniel, in case you're wondering.) And verse 6 is a /stonking/ example of that thing about ancient writing styles you were on about a few posts ago. I quote from an online KJV, 'cos it's just /so cool/:

*

'Then the king's countenance was changed,
and his thoughts troubled him,
so that the joints of his loins were loosed,
and his knees smote one against another.'</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I feel the cautionary tale of Belshazzar is somehow relevant (Chapter 5 of the book of Daniel, in case you&#8217;re wondering.) And verse 6 is a /stonking/ example of that thing about ancient writing styles you were on about a few posts ago. I quote from an online KJV, &#8216;cos it&#8217;s just /so cool/:</p>
<p>*</p>
<p>&#8216;Then the king&#8217;s countenance was changed,<br />
and his thoughts troubled him,<br />
so that the joints of his loins were loosed,<br />
and his knees smote one against another.&#8217;</p>
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		<title>By: guy</title>
		<link>http://www.timboucher.com/journal/2006/12/09/sovereign-identity/comment-page-1/#comment-26032</link>
		<dc:creator>guy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 10 Dec 2006 16:04:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.timboucher.com/journal/2006/12/09/sovereign-identity/#comment-26032</guid>
		<description>The gap is bridged without effort and without explanation by inhabitants of wilderness.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The gap is bridged without effort and without explanation by inhabitants of wilderness.</p>
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		<title>By: Tim Boucher</title>
		<link>http://www.timboucher.com/journal/2006/12/09/sovereign-identity/comment-page-1/#comment-25877</link>
		<dc:creator>Tim Boucher</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 09 Dec 2006 20:12:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.timboucher.com/journal/2006/12/09/sovereign-identity/#comment-25877</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;This â€œchristianâ€ siteâ€™s blurb is the opposite, fearful of the idea that each is his own king, or his own piece of god, thinking it best that kings lead masses of directionless oafs.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

I'm actually not sure how to bridge this gap either, but at the same time I feel like it definitely is bridgeable and I am beginning to see the outlines of how to do it. Give me some more time to mull this over. 

&lt;blockquote&gt;How is it that one can equate science as a belief system.?&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Oh god, seriously. Can we stop having this conversation already? It's so worn out that I just don't have the energy or interest in that subject any more.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>This â€œchristianâ€ siteâ€™s blurb is the opposite, fearful of the idea that each is his own king, or his own piece of god, thinking it best that kings lead masses of directionless oafs.</p></blockquote>
<p>I&#8217;m actually not sure how to bridge this gap either, but at the same time I feel like it definitely is bridgeable and I am beginning to see the outlines of how to do it. Give me some more time to mull this over. </p>
<blockquote><p>How is it that one can equate science as a belief system.?</p></blockquote>
<p>Oh god, seriously. Can we stop having this conversation already? It&#8217;s so worn out that I just don&#8217;t have the energy or interest in that subject any more.</p>
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		<title>By: skip sievert</title>
		<link>http://www.timboucher.com/journal/2006/12/09/sovereign-identity/comment-page-1/#comment-25852</link>
		<dc:creator>skip sievert</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 09 Dec 2006 17:12:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.timboucher.com/journal/2006/12/09/sovereign-identity/#comment-25852</guid>
		<description>BELIEF SYSTEM &#38; SCIENCE

  How is it that one can equate science as a belief system.?

A belief system is supported by nothing more than opinion.

Science is nothing more than the prediction of the next most likely or probable.

Any belief system is supported by nothing except imagination, while the next most probable is supported by observation of some phenomenon that can be recreated under the same conditions by anyone, at any time. This is science. This is how fact is established. 

One can imagine anything, however it can only become science when it can be measured, i.e. detected either directly or remotely. Failing this it simply does not exist. 

-----------------------------------
This interesting breakdown of the two was written by Dean Cameron recently. Dean is an advocate of the installation of a Technocracy or Technate for North America as envisioned by the Technical Alliance. 

I think it does a good job with that issue. I liked your comment fuj.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>BELIEF SYSTEM &amp; SCIENCE</p>
<p>  How is it that one can equate science as a belief system.?</p>
<p>A belief system is supported by nothing more than opinion.</p>
<p>Science is nothing more than the prediction of the next most likely or probable.</p>
<p>Any belief system is supported by nothing except imagination, while the next most probable is supported by observation of some phenomenon that can be recreated under the same conditions by anyone, at any time. This is science. This is how fact is established. </p>
<p>One can imagine anything, however it can only become science when it can be measured, i.e. detected either directly or remotely. Failing this it simply does not exist. </p>
<p>&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8211;<br />
This interesting breakdown of the two was written by Dean Cameron recently. Dean is an advocate of the installation of a Technocracy or Technate for North America as envisioned by the Technical Alliance. </p>
<p>I think it does a good job with that issue. I liked your comment fuj.</p>
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		<title>By: fuj</title>
		<link>http://www.timboucher.com/journal/2006/12/09/sovereign-identity/comment-page-1/#comment-25847</link>
		<dc:creator>fuj</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 09 Dec 2006 16:23:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.timboucher.com/journal/2006/12/09/sovereign-identity/#comment-25847</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;It can`t be measured , therefore it does not exist.&lt;/blockquote&gt;
Whoa. How did this rule come to be?

&lt;blockquote&gt;There is no accounting for belief.&lt;/blockquote&gt;
Depends what you mean by accounting. Values are essentially placeholders. But so are beliefs. A belief, like any idea not based on objectively viewable fact, has as natural a function in human cognition as does a scientific idea. You can think of subjective ideas as the unmissable realm between the absolute and the objective. The trick is to recognize them as such (see &lt;a href="http://www.highintelligence.com/OS%20012%20basic.html" rel="nofollow"&gt;OS012 &lt;/a&gt;)

Sorry if I interpreted your post incorrectly, Skip.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>It can`t be measured , therefore it does not exist.</p></blockquote>
<p>Whoa. How did this rule come to be?</p>
<blockquote><p>There is no accounting for belief.</p></blockquote>
<p>Depends what you mean by accounting. Values are essentially placeholders. But so are beliefs. A belief, like any idea not based on objectively viewable fact, has as natural a function in human cognition as does a scientific idea. You can think of subjective ideas as the unmissable realm between the absolute and the objective. The trick is to recognize them as such (see <a href="http://www.highintelligence.com/OS%20012%20basic.html" rel="nofollow">OS012 </a>)</p>
<p>Sorry if I interpreted your post incorrectly, Skip.</p>
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		<title>By: alistair</title>
		<link>http://www.timboucher.com/journal/2006/12/09/sovereign-identity/comment-page-1/#comment-25846</link>
		<dc:creator>alistair</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 09 Dec 2006 16:17:10 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>well, the can of worms is about to be opened...................

www.adventuresinlegalland.com

and i just finished reading an article in paranoia magazine about the strawman that we believe is our true identity in consumer society..........and entering into contracts with corporations that we believe have our best interests in mind. like the government.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>well, the can of worms is about to be opened&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.adventuresinlegalland.com" rel="nofollow"></a><a href='http://www.adventuresinlegalland.com'>http://www.adventuresinlegalland.com</a></p>
<p>and i just finished reading an article in paranoia magazine about the strawman that we believe is our true identity in consumer society&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;.and entering into contracts with corporations that we believe have our best interests in mind. like the government.</p>
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		<title>By: SubstanceM</title>
		<link>http://www.timboucher.com/journal/2006/12/09/sovereign-identity/comment-page-1/#comment-25835</link>
		<dc:creator>SubstanceM</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 09 Dec 2006 15:25:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.timboucher.com/journal/2006/12/09/sovereign-identity/#comment-25835</guid>
		<description>Contrasts with the recent comment you made about Jesus telling people they are god, god is within them. It made me think of the idea that if everyone is a king, then there would no reason for kingdoms, rulers. This "christian" site's blurb is the opposite, fearful of the idea that each is his own king, or his own piece of god, thinking it best that kings lead masses of directionless oafs. Seems like a big gap to bridge.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Contrasts with the recent comment you made about Jesus telling people they are god, god is within them. It made me think of the idea that if everyone is a king, then there would no reason for kingdoms, rulers. This &#8220;christian&#8221; site&#8217;s blurb is the opposite, fearful of the idea that each is his own king, or his own piece of god, thinking it best that kings lead masses of directionless oafs. Seems like a big gap to bridge.</p>
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		<title>By: skip sievert</title>
		<link>http://www.timboucher.com/journal/2006/12/09/sovereign-identity/comment-page-1/#comment-25834</link>
		<dc:creator>skip sievert</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 09 Dec 2006 15:08:55 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Its that free will concept right. ?

You are free to do whatever you like ;  you need only face the consequences. Your freedom stops at the end of your fist , if it makes contact with another.

People are afraid of freedom and responsibility , so they prefer to hide behind the prison bars which they build around themselves.

Religion tends to want to control with belief.  Belief is opinion.  It can`t be measured , therefore it does not exist.  There is no accounting for belief.  This is as it should be.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Its that free will concept right. ?</p>
<p>You are free to do whatever you like ;  you need only face the consequences. Your freedom stops at the end of your fist , if it makes contact with another.</p>
<p>People are afraid of freedom and responsibility , so they prefer to hide behind the prison bars which they build around themselves.</p>
<p>Religion tends to want to control with belief.  Belief is opinion.  It can`t be measured , therefore it does not exist.  There is no accounting for belief.  This is as it should be.</p>
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