Tim, you gotta see El Topo and Holy Mountain. They are easily findable on bittorrent.

Forget that, they finally get legit, restored releases on May Day (how appropriate):

Nice post, Tim. Off to Netflix for the Muppet Movie…

Yeah I totally feel what you’re saying here. One of the ideas I have been developing lately for the purposes of my own musical production (literal, not just figurative) is that basically Jesus is just an actor who is hired by the people who really know, with the “real shit” as it were to act intentionally as a figurehead and crystallize something within culture. I see that as being a kind of fundamental aspect of the Jesus story. And then what happens is you basically sacrifice that character and people’s emotional attachments to that character in order to transform them.

Make any kind of sense?

Tim, you gotta see El Topo and Holy Mountain. They are easily findable on bittorrent.

…basically Jesus is just an actor who is hired by the people who really know, with the “real shit” as it were to act intentionally as a figurehead and crystallize something within culture. I see that as being a kind of fundamental aspect of the Jesus story. And then what happens is you basically sacrifice that character and people’s emotional attachments to that character in order to transform them.

Make any kind of sense?

Absolutely. And makes me think not only of religious figureheads but of monarchs, presidents, presidential assassinations, and Zaphod Beeblebrox. They’re called figureheads for a reason, right? They are much like actors, in that they are acting on the direction of directors, acting out the writing of writers, bringing to life the visions of visionaries…

But with so many symbols and forms, and no grounding in the simple, underlying patterns and elements that tie them together and give them meaning - no useful frame of reference (or cross-reference?) to understand them, out there or within ourselves - it’s no wonder everyone is so aimless and confused about who they are, where they fit in and what they’re ’supposed’ to do.

I wrote something a little while back about my experience taking hawaiian baby woodrose seeds, where I basically left my body and looked at my whole life as if it were a play - completely objectively. And then I actually began to inhabit the minds of my friends and other people I knew, looking at myself the way they saw me.

That whole experience helped me realised two different things:
- firstly, that people are much more complicated than we first think
- but secondly, that people all fit into these general archetypal patterns

Most of the time, people are afraid to really “be themselves”, which is to say, they are afraid to give into the archetype of what they really are. I think this might be why it is sometimes difficult to understand the motives of others, because we keep expecting them to act within the bounds of their archetype, but they try and self-consciously go the other way.

I’ll see if I can dig up my ramblings… http://stirredherd.blogspot.com/2007/02/meaning-myspace-and-complete.html

Also, the lead actor is not necessarily the most important element to a production, just the center of attention.

Yeah I totally feel what you’re saying here. One of the ideas I have been developing lately for the purposes of my own musical production (literal, not just figurative) is that basically Jesus is just an actor who is hired by the people who really know, with the “real shit” as it were to act intentionally as a figurehead and crystallize something within culture. I see that as being a kind of fundamental aspect of the Jesus story. And then what happens is you basically sacrifice that character and people’s emotional attachments to that character in order to transform them.

Make any kind of sense?

Why is it that people don’t know what the part is that they were meant to play? And I think the reason for that is the fact that our culture tells us to place ourselves at the centre of the universe, and so we all end up thinking that we are the lead actor. But a play (or a musical) can’t work when EVERYONE is a lead actor.

I kind of disagree. I mean, the last sentence is true. But I think our culture (also) sends the (contradictory) message that we are not stars. Celebrities are the stars. We’re just the consumers, the spectators, and thus that’s the role most of us accept and settle for. Most of us don’t even see ourselves as contenders to actually be a part of the show. So we don’t even strive to reach our full potential, as ‘actors’ or otherwise. It’s hard to discover and play the role you’re meant to play if you don’t even believe you ‘have’ an important role to play.

Also, the lead actor is not necessarily the most important element to a production, just the center of attention. The behind the scenes crew, the writers, the visionaries, the artistic directors and so on are at least as important. Even supporting actors can steal a show, or have as much to do with the overall success of the drama as the ’star’. If we all played our roles as if we were the stars, and at the same time appreciated that everyone else, too is a star (familiar?), I wonder what that would look like? I honestly don’t know, but I suspect it would be good.

I think that one of the problems is that kids are never taught to understand themselves. At school or at home, or wherever. So we grow up questioning everything about the external world but find it hard to see what our place is in it. We can’t see ourselves properly and so we end up quite deluded about our place in the world. And the only solution to that is finding some way to look at yourself objectively. Sometimes psychedelics can help with this, or therapy. But our culture doesn’t spend nearly enough time concentrating on the archetypes, like those in tribal societies did through their stories and rituals. Musicals might be one of the main ways we can see the different archetypes.

Totally agree here. We have become lost in the endless barrage of outer forms, and not been trained to see their interconnections or the fact that they’re all variations on basic archetypal themes, and that it’s those we’re really responding to, without knowing it. But with so many symbols and forms, and no grounding in the simple, underlying patterns and elements that tie them together and give them meaning - no useful frame of reference (or cross-reference?) to understand them, out there or within ourselves - it’s no wonder everyone is so aimless and confused about who they are, where they fit in and what they’re ’supposed’ to do.

I think you just articulated why this is one of my favorite things in the world and makes my cry, every time.

Of course, I’ve always seen the crew as part of the thing. Sure, you don’t see them onstage, but they’re an important part of it. Things wouldn’t go on for very long if they weren’t around.

I just finished listening to your “Faking your own death” podcast. The Dark Crystal deals with a lot of the themes you talk about with the Skeksis and the other dudes that split of from each other and then History begins.

Why do you think people are scared of beauty?

Btw,

Hi Cadevo!

And there’s a generally accepted theory that /whatever you play in the Nativity, that shapes the rest of your career./

Oh man, is that true? I played the star. And by star I don’t mean Jesus. I mean the Star of Bethlehem. Me and my friend got very competitive over that part, but I won out in the end.

I was brought up C of E, like most people I know over here. That’s ‘Church of England’, which is a remarkable branch of Christianity in that everyone in the whole country is ‘in’, unless they specifically request otherwise. This inclusivity has tainted my view of religion ever since.

Anyway.

What it means is that most people I know have participated in a school Nativity play at Christmas time, at the age of around five. And there’s a generally accepted theory that /whatever you play in the Nativity, that shapes the rest of your career./

Hey, I was the narrator. The number of bossy divas I’ve met who played Mary is uncanny ;-D. And the narrator’s part in Joseph ATATD definitely has the best songs. We’ve got this crazy TV programme right now where they’re auditioning Josephs for the West End. C’mon, who wants to be Joseph? ‘I closed my eyes, drew back the curtain’? What does that MEAN, man? How did you see anything?

Hm. Maybe there’s wisdom in your words ;-D

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Easter_Play

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Outlaw
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civil_death

To be declared an outlaw was to suffer a form of civil death. The outlaw was debarred from all civilized society. No one was allowed to give him food, shelter, or any other sort of support — to do so was to commit the crime of aiding and abetting, and to be in danger of the ban oneself. An outlaw might be killed with impunity; and it was not only lawful but meritorious to kill a thief flying from justice — to do so was not murder. A man who slew a thief was expected to declare the fact without delay, otherwise the dead man’s kindred might clear his name by their oath and require the slayer to pay weregild as for a true man (F. Pollock and F. W. Maitland, The History of English Law Before the Time of Edward I (1895, 2nd. ed., Cambridge, 1898, reprinted 1968)). Because the outlaw has defied civil society, that society was quit of any obligations to the outlaw —outlaws had no civil rights, could not sue in any court on any cause of action, though they were themselves personally liable.

This also makes PERFECT sense then that I felt so strongly about needing to read the Gospels OUT LOUD because they are meant to be performed.

Passion Plays are not reenactments of the Bible, they are the original method in which the Bible was meant to be understood: as stage drama in which everyone actively and intentionally took part:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Passion_plays

When I started doing these reading out loud “performances” on my own is precisely when I started having massive synchronistic experiences around the character of Jesus within my life.

Passion plays are esoteric initiation rituals. Act out the story of Jesus with you and your friends. Be sure to have fun with it though - it’s a game. it’s a musical!

Except I don’t like Superstar - they kill Him off at the end. What’s that all about?

That’s cool about the muses though. I’ve been getting back in touch with mine of late.

You can trace “music” obviously to the muses in Ancient Greece - to which you can thereby connect devotional/courtly love with the poet’s dedication to the Muse, the Sufis, the whole nine yards. Not tightly wound connections mind you, but important thematic ones.

So it seems that part of what the musical genre is supposed to do is inspire divine participation with the ecstasy of devotional love to the muses… Which is why Jesus Christ Superstar is such a perfect musical: because the story of Christ, of all ancient “prophecy” was originally delivered within the context of interactive musical performance theatre. If Jesus was anything in “real life” he was a character in a hit musical in the desert who went on to crush box office records the world over!

What did you think of the dark Crystal?

Again I’ll bring up Jesus Christ Superstar, because it illustrates perfectly the point you’re making: not everybody can play Jesus in the musical. Because it would be BORING and God hates when things get boring. That’s precisely why he invented us.

I don’t buy that people don’t know what their part to play is. I think people just keep it buried because it seems unrealistic and impossible and they are scared to step up to bat. People who are kings know they are kings but say they don’t want to be when they know they really do and are simply scared. Lots of other roles to play before you can play Jesus though.

I think that one of the problems is that kids are never taught to understand themselves. At school or at home, or wherever. So we grow up questioning everything about the external world but find it hard to see what our place is in it. We can’t see ourselves properly and so we end up quite deluded about our place in the world. And the only solution to that is finding some way to look at yourself objectively. Sometimes psychedelics can help with this, or therapy. But our culture doesn’t spend nearly enough time concentrating on the archetypes, like those in tribal societies did through their stories and rituals. Musicals might be one of the main ways we can see the different archetypes.