There are a lot of other things I want to do. Acheiving mastery of my artwork is a big one though. You wrote about mastery a while back…

I don’t know man. I think what it is is that you are an artist and a really gifted communicator, so your little Honeymoon with Christ is just that much more powerful and colorful.

This, in a sense, is exactly my point though. In order to play ANY role within this musical or another one you like better, you must make of yourself the consummate artist and performer.

You must unite not necessarily with God, but with that role in its completeness, in its entirety, in its savagery, brutality and beauty. You must live your role so fully that it overwhelms you and destroys you and fills you with power beyond all your reckoning.

That is the whole point of this grand stage performance virtual reality soul musical called life. Choose your part and then play it to the hilt, because it is fucking boring and pathetic and a waste of everyone’s time to do any differently.

Why do you think Nietzsche went crazy and destroyed himself?

’cause he had the clap real bad and they hadn’t developed penicillin yet?

“The weaker vessel is driven to the stronger from a need of nourishment; it desires to get under it, if possible to become one with it. The stronger on the contrary, defends itself from others; it refuses to perish in this way; it prefers rather to split itself into two or more parts in the process of growing. One may conclude that the greater the urgency seems to become one with somthing else, the more weakness in some from is present. The greater the tendency to variety, diffeence, inner decay, the more strength is actually to hand.

The instinct to cleave to somthing, and the instinct to repel somthing, are in the inorganic as well as the organc world, the uniting bond. The whole distinction is a piece of hasty judgement.

The will to power in every combination of forces,defending itself against the stronger, and coming down unmercifully upon the weaker, is more correct.

N.B.-All processes may be regarded as “beings.””

See what he is getting at there and how I am relating this?

This is polarity, repelling and bonding is all part of the same game. I am focusing more oon repelling right now. I guess you are bonding.

You talk about how hard it is to bond and so forth. Well puting up resistance probably makes yeilding feel that much more powerful whrn you finally do.

Make it pure.

You don’t have to make *it* pure. It is pure. It is purity itself. You have to make yourself pure so that you become worthy of it. It has absolutely nothing to do with power. Why do you think Nietzsche went crazy and destroyed himself?

Hey, I don’t think I’m tough. I think I’m a wimp. I think becoming stronger is a good goal though. It’s very natural, its actually inevitable.

The main premise of Nietzche’s “Will to Power” is that every living thing has the basic drive to become more powerful. Really, the most liberal tie dye and hemp sandal wearing vegan pacifist, is motivated by seeking power. Massive revenge fantasies.

They are torqued off at Bush because he represents the strong. They want to bring the strong down. It gives them an orgasm. It has nothing to do with lifting up the weak. Its about kicking strong people in the balls.

I am not saying that represents you, but if you have a hold of somthing much more sold and profound than mere revenge fantasies, it would be good to seperate that element out wouldn’t it?

Make it pure.

There are other paths to becoming King. As far as I can tell you turned to Christ out of weariness.

I don’t know WHAT you’re talking about here!

Maybe people get tired of searching and then choose, rather arbitrarily even.

This was NOT an arbitrary choice. This came to ME

Do you really think all the “enemies” in the New Testament, the High Priests, the Romans, were just, like scared little boys inside? Like they just needed a hug?

They just needed some one to love them?

Yes!

But a lot of this talk about “Love” is just weakness. Its just giving up. Its allowing yourself to be swallowed up, by somthing more powerful.

Look, I know you’re sick of me riding you on this, but you are WRONG WRONG WRONG. This is the stupidest most farthest from the truth thing in the world. Love, weakness, “giving up” allowing yourself to be “swallowed” are THE SINGLE MOST DIFFICULT THINGS in the world you or anyone else could ever possibly do. It’s far more difficult than struggling against it and saying no and pretending like you are a powerful individual and that all good things come from you.

Do you really think all the “enemies” in the New Testament, the High Priests, the Romans, were just, like scared little boys inside? Like they just needed a hug?

They just needed some one to love them?

Do you think simultaneously as this was going, a few thousand miles to the North, The barbarian warrior tribes, they were just lost little puppy dogs inside that needed a hug, but no one ever gave them a hug, so they went and took over the world?

I had a really tough German Shepherd once, from Germany. She was a great dog but had bad hips. She was hard core, though. Most people have never witnessed a real German Shepherd. She was the kind of dog that, with the right training, would have busted through glass and stuff like that to get the bad guy.

She had a huge pain threshold. But she had the worst hips. The only time she got cuddly and affectionate was when she was having a hard time walking. When she was almost at the end of her rope from pain. Then for a moment she acted like Golden retrievers act all the time.

I would never wish that on her. I liked her better when she was an asshole. Because she wasn’t an asshole. She was just strong. She was hardcore. She got to a point where she became crippled and I put her to sleep. I didn’t want to see her a weak shell of her former self.

I hold out the possibility that you have a hold of somthing solid and profound. But a lot of this talk about “Love” is just weakness. Its just giving up. Its allowing yourself to be swallowed up, by somthing more powerful.

I think it could possibly be that we are on opposite paths but that they may end up in the same place. At this point in time, my path does not involve a lot of yeilding and submitting and crying.

There are other paths to becoming King. As far as I can tell you turned to Christ out of weariness. I turned to Christ out of fear of my own power.

Here are some lines from a book by Kurt Vonnegut:

Tiger got to hunt
Bird got to fly
man got to ask
Why, Why, Why?

Tiger got to sleep
Bird Got to Land
Man got to say he understand.

I remember the post just before your foray into studdying the gospels. It was the one on radical Questioning. I mean perhaps you were like Cat Stevens just before He became a Muslim.

Maybe people get tired of searching and then choose, rather arbitrarily even.

I don’t know man. I think what it is is that you are an artist and a really gifted communicator, so your little Honeymoon with Christ is just that much more powerful and colorful.

I didn’t have a blog when I became a Christian but I did preach sermons.

All Christians tell me the same thing though. I was never a Christian, because its so wonderful you would never turn from it.

Well…….

I feel like you’ve handed me the wrong muppett.

Then build the right one! That’s the whole point.

I really question that everyone must function primarily on the basis of the heart chakra. I think its over-emphasized.

Your word choice betrays you: you “think” its over-emphasized. If you were experiencing *it* directly you wouldn’t be saying that, trust me. You would be down on your knees crying and trembling before the awesome and terrible might of God. God will slay you with beauty and love before any other thing…

But be that as it may, I feel really open to all the beauty in the world. I feel like I am really affirming life. I say “Yes!” to life.

Great! But get back to me when you are breaking down and crying every day and every night because that beauty is too much and you feel like you don’t deserve it. And then after that get back to me when you accept the challenge of that love and decide to rule as King Solomon King Arthur King Aragorn did. It’s not about the heart chakra. That’s just a word. You’ll know when it happens. You won’t know before then.

I probabably don’t have a real beef with that as much as I do with Christianity in general.

There’s no difference. We’re all pointing to the same thing.

I have been reading a lot of Nietzche. I read a passage you might like. Its Nietzche’s take on Christ apart from Christianity, that he was all about helping people to deify themselves, than Paul really distorted it.

I think you’d like that passage.

But really though I sense you have this idea that I am seething with rage and just need to open my heart up to recieving love and everything will be all better.

I really question that everyone must function primarily on the basis of the heart chakra. I think its over-emphasized.

But be that as it may, I feel really open to all the beauty in the world. I feel like I am really affirming life. I say “Yes!” to life.

You seem to be too, in your mystical Christianity. I probabably don’t have a real beef with that as much as I do with Christianity in general.

I’ve recently had an experience relating to a scripture similar to the “seeds that fall be the wayside” Ted referred to above. (Sorry no research, I’ve had a long weekend.) It’s the one about the servants who were given money to manage in their master’s absence. The servant given ten Talents of Silver made money, the servant given five Talents made money and the servant given one Talent buried his Silver and told his master that he was afraid and wanted to make sure he was able to return the one Talent. The master berated him and took the one Talent of Silver and gave it to the man who had ten +. This has always seemed cruel to me. The man was trying to be responsible with what was placed in his care.

Recently a dept. at work that had been having problems hired someone new. She is a tool and a flunky and this decision on Mgmt’s part exposed their true motives and feelings towards the people who make that dept. work. Now people are leqaving like rats leaving a sinking ship. This is causing problems and making the whole program look bad and we could lose our contract over this. (Have our Talent of Silver taken away due to poor mgmt.)

Our contracting agency is not being cruel by demanding we uphold our end of the bargain. They’re describing the rules that govern this transaction. We must bear fruit or be pruned. This doesn’t mean that this is the only interaction with our contracting agency (aka God) available to me. It’s the one being referred to at this moment. I hope this isn’t too much of a sideways way of looking at the above exchange. I’ve enjoyed the vigorous give and take.

If you disagree, then disagree. Destroy me if you are a darkworker. Let rage envelope you. Don’t back down. Be a lion. Be a dragon. Don’t blow out your fire and run home.

But I just mean think I can see both sides of it instead of just the positive side. And probably you are right that Tim’s side is the more constructive side to focus on.

I really almost didn’t comment. I try to be respectful. It wasn’t really presented as somthing to debate about. So I kind of just said what about vs. 12, because to me it just seems so glaringly obvious. Then Tim asked what I thought then….

There is this huge revenge fantasy side, but that isn’t the point Tim was making and its his blog.

So, I enjoy this blog, from now On if Tim is creating a beautiful picture, I will let him go ahead and do it. If he is presenting somthing for debate, if I’m interested I’ll be game.

More like Pontius Pilate. Or Satan. See’s here’s the thing I almost didn’t say anything. Because why be a wet blanket? I really am not one of these people that denigrates Christians, even though a lot of former Christians do.

But now its a thing of I am Judas and I have it all wrong, I don’t understand etc.

So here are a couple things to consider: My interpretation of this passage is more elegant, it has a place for all the words in the passage. There is nothing in this passage I don’t know what to do with. I can subsume Tim’s interpretation into mine.

Those are consistent with characteristics of a superior understanding. They really are.

I am not denying Tim’s aspect, he’s focusing on. As far as the negative side, I should have let it go and not commented. He’s creating this beautiful picture, why rain on the parade?

Of course there has always been a dialectical aspect to this blog. But really though, I think what I am saying is threatening. So if its easier for you to think I am Judas and I just don’t understand, so be it.

I can subsume Tim’s interpretation into mine. I never denied his part of it. But my part must be bullshit in order for Tim’s interpretation to make sense.

I don’t deny tis wonderful, intimate relationship Christ had with his desciples.

I am just saying there is a two sided coin here, Ya’ll seem to be saying there is no coin just a rorsharch test inside a kalidescope.

I guess you don’t see the side where having this group of friends in the know, entails, wanting everyone outside the group to go to Hell. The revenge fantasy aspect of this is a huge theme. It just glaringly jumps right out at me.

There is a poisonous aspect to these parables.

Yes, and it is coming from within you. Just as my interpretation comes from within me. Which was the point of my “make the inner like the outer” thing the other day. Ordinarily I would let this go because I know I will not convince you, but this is central to my point here.

You need to watch this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ytNoiQ8LkS8

And this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jkje4FiH9Qc

Why is Judas so mad? Where does it get him? Does Jesus ever get pissed at him for it? No because he understands it’s the character Judas needs to play - but he also understands it’s only the character he needs to play for right now. The next time they perform this play, Jesus will step aside and let Judas write for himself a new part. In fact that movie is only barely about Jesus. It’s about Judas. He’s the hero. He gets resurrected. Jesus just passes on.

So is this passage just a big Rorsharch test, or like looking into a kaliedescope?

I don’t think so.

I do.

I think I am seeing a half that you don’t see or are not focusing on. I think its a half that is there. Its the half the Romans saw. The half the high priests saw. Its not illigitimate.

I think you’re right, but I think there’s some more fundamental difference in how you’re each coming at this conversation itself, not just the disagreements within the conversation. I think you have different motivations for having this discussion which are putting you more at odds than anything.

The way I sees it, whether it be the bible we’re talking about or all of Reality itself. You can always spin it either negatively (by focusing on negativity, or from a state of negativity) or positively (by doing the opposite), because there’s always both, and unless you make a choice which you’re going to focus on and emphasize, you’re stuck in the middle where everything cancels each other out.

So Ted, you seem to be spinning the story pretty negatively (you’ve said yourself on your own blog that you have a ‘history’ with Christianity, and that it didn’t end well, so I can understand why). And Tim is spinning it positively, because, well for one thing, he’s in love. Things spin themselves positively when you’re in love.

But that’s just the thing. when you’re in love, and everything starts spinning positively, everything becomes more positive. The inner reflects the outer and vice versa. ‘Positive thinking’ talk can be a whole lot of bullshit, depending on who’s doing the talking and how much of an idiot they are, but the essence of the idea IS legitimate, and I know this because I’ve experienced it again and again. I’ve experienced the flipside of it again and again too.

is all I’m sayin…

You know that prophet that came up to King David after he killed off Bathshebas’ husband and took her as his wife?

The prophet told him a story of this poor Guy that just had one lamb, and then this rich asshole that had everything kiled him and took it?

So then David gets all fired up, and the prophet says says “Its you.”

Then David is dumbstruck and repents?

Jesus is saying there are all these stubborn Motherfuckers out thre that will never repent. So he is saying “Fuck ‘em. He is going to take them only so far, get them to agree and leave it at that. They will agree with his parables and so hang themselves. If he got more explicit, possibly many of these assholes would repent like King David and then he would be forced to heal and forgive them and he doesn’t want to.

Plus a lot of what you are doing with this passage is of your own creation, its your child in a way.

I guess you don’t see the side where having this group of friends in the know, entails, wanting everyone outside the group to go to Hell. The revenge fantasy aspect of this is a huge theme. It just glaringly jumps right out at me.

There is a poisonous aspect to these parables. Like whispering death threats into peoples ears as they sleep.

So is this passage just a big Rorsharch test, or like looking into a kaliedescope?

I don’t think so. I think I am seeing a half that you don’t see or are not focusing on. I think its a half that is there. Its the half the Romans saw. The half the high priests saw. Its not illigitimate.

But I am not saying the part you see is invalid. Like Jesus playing the puppet master and giving the desciples muppets, that are a reflection of themselves, giving them the freedom to create themselves. I don’t deny that part.

That’s a beautiful vision. I probably shouldn’t have said anything.

But, maybe I am just being a jerk.

Not to be a jerk as well, but yes. You are! The point is you have Free Will. You make your own decisions. You literally choose which reality you want to exist in.

But like I said, there’s a reason Jesus spoke in parables because noone wants to hear that.

I know you are creating this free form artistic kind of thing, but still that passage is composed of real words with real meanings.

Created by people who were INSPIRED BY GOD but also still TOTALLY FLAWED HUMANS. And look at the fucking Bible. It is a collection of stories by different authors, groups and time periods. It never was meant to be a static thing. It was meant to be a game, a story, a mystery you enter into knowingly and joyously. It is the mystery of our existence here on this earth captured in the format of a musical. And what a musical it has been for the West to try and perform for so many thousands of years.

All religion is is poetry which people thought was so beautiful and meaningful that they decided to live their lives according to it. It is not something to be argued over. It is meant to be loved and lived in the fullness of your heart.

Throw the money changers out of the temple! The temple is the heart. The money changers are the part of you that keeps a record of wrongs and hurts and debts. I need to do a separate post on that…

I admit I have problems with Jesus. Things I seriously don’t like about him.

But he’s a character in a story! That’s the whole point!! You’re supposed to react emotionally! You’re supposed to become conflicted by the image of you he presents to you in reflection. And then you are supposed to sacrifice and to crucify that reflected image of yourself so that you can stand in the fullness of God and total awareness of yourself for all eternity.

See, Here is thing Tim. I didn’t want to be a wet blanket. I really liked your Jim Henson stuff, its a beautiful word picture. Creating the musical. I really liked it a lot.

So, You are creating beauty, so why be the Devil’s advocate about that? Right?

But Jesus has been around for a long time. There is a huge tradition, ancient texts there with the Bible. That verse 12 and the judgement behind it is just so glaringly obvious to me.

I know you are creating this free form artistic kind of thing, but still that passage is composed of real words with real meanings.

I admit I have problems with Jesus. Things I seriously don’t like about him. Not many people have that perspective. Fundamentalists, take all the harsh judgemental things he said to heart, Liberal Christians, just take just the nice parts. There are various justifications given for why they reject the ugly parts.

But, maybe I am just being a jerk. I don’t know. Why should you ask questions about this passage if its working for you with the schema you are creating?

Being one of the disciples and knowing secret wisdom is a nice word picture too.

I think it is the perfect time for this link…hehe

*This* is the true esoteric purpose of the Jesus story - a rallying point, a reference point, a bit of transcendent drama which we can all participate in and react to as though our opinions fucking mattered!

Because FUCK, lets make them matter! Let’s make what we believe resound from the Heavens! Let’s make it stand for all time if that’s what we really believe. You and me now!

But I won’t argue with you. If you feel you would like me to clarify, to really understand what I am saying I could go into more detail about the judgement side, of parables. But I won’t press the point, because you are emphasizing the pleasant and intimate side and that was your main point. I am not denying that part.

And what is this! This is bullshit! We are writing a musical here about how our lives can and should be. This is not hermeneutics! This is fucking free will. This is fucking being a king and a dragon because you WANT to be and MUST. It’s not about getting suckered into the same old pointless semantic games. Cause you and I know that path leads nowhere but up your own asshole!

> with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you

This goes all the way back to Belshazzar and the writing on the wall: ‘thou art weighed in the balance and found wanting’. My take is that Belshazzar found himself in a polytheistic society: accordingly, his kingdom was divided.

> Keep trying to solve the puzzle.

That’s why it’s called a ‘mystery’.

There is a not a lot of wasted words in the Bible. Basically you are cherry picking. That’s want liberal Christians tend to do. They disregard whatever they don’t like.

But I won’t argue with you. If you feel you would like me to clarify, to really understand what I am saying I could go into more detail about the judgement side, of parables. But I won’t press the point, because you are emphasizing the pleasant and intimate side and that was your main point. I am not denying that part.

Keep trying to solve the puzzle. Most folks arent aware there’s a puzzle. Most folks arent aware. Keep open, but tempered with discernment of spirits, coz there’s also a danger to be TOO open … who is it that guides into all truth?

alas poor poor Jimi,
my stratosphereocaster weeps for thee
you tried to both kiss the sky,
and chop it down with the edge of your hand
Voodoo child, or Gypsy boy new sun rising?
You decide

25For he that hath, to him shall be given: and he that hath not, from him shall be taken even that which he hath.

You basically are only telling the good news and not the bad news. Read further down the page about the sower and the seeds and the people that will have everything taken away.

its very elegant for somthing that was supposedly added later by ingnorant mean spirited people.

It’s more like Jesus says:

“Fuck! These people piss me off because they say they want to be saved and I am trying to help them, but they just won’t even listen to me. What the hell am I supposed to do? All I can do - obviously. That’s my whole purpose in being here. If I have to give up my very life so they can live, then I will do that. But there’s only one problem: I can do all that and yet I can’t do it all for them because it’s their choice in the end. They have to not just want it but get themselves out of the way.”

Nevermind the more perhaps useful point that nobody ever thinks of Jesus comments as being sarcastic or joking (like when I use abusive name-calling in my text to deliver semantic shocks). Just look at how poorly sarcasm comes across over the web. Now imagine how badly it gets mangled by being translated through several languages and turned into a religion!

Jesus calls Peter a rock because when he tries to walk on the water he sinks, not because he wants to “build a church” on him! It’s a joke!

Jesus has a lot of latent aggression… and almost a “Messianic complex”, you could say.

By telling these parables he is condemning these people to Hell. They understand the truth in their “spirit” or unconscious mind. Yet they don’t acknowledge it by repenting.

There is a very passive aggressive element to it. A lot of judgement.

It makes it so much harder to know how easy it feels when it’s going well too…

Also I’ve discovered that having access to “how things turn out” doesn’t necessarily make it any easier either. I think they cover that in Last Temptation.

But the Holy Spirit or whoever keeps telling me all I have to do - my only task - is keeping my heart open. And that’s really the only secret I can transmit to you. Keep your heart open. That’s hard enough. Everything else will follow. That’s all anybody means by Faith and that’s exactly why it’s so fucking hard.

It makes it so much harder to know how easy it feels when it’s going well too…