This is an assumption.

Yes but a workable one. If people where in harmony modern society would cease to exist as we know it. There would be no reason for people to buy things, strive for the notion of progress, numb themselves with entertainment. Look around, look inside yourself. There are new units of information with their own agendas being introduced into your mind space every day cajoling you into a disharmonious state. Advertising, religious texts, personal development, fiction.

This is an observable and more importantly actionable fact.

This is the dynamic system that I was talking about, the fact that you are a conglomeration of competing mental entities, and if you look for the true self in there you can’t find it. It is observable and actionable, because once you understand it you understand yourself and others in a whole new light.

I think there needs to be some element of pain and internal conflict in order to motivate people. Why?

Here we go back to the ideas of Buddhism. The Buddha taught that suffering comes from craving and ignorance. Attachment to the world. There is suffering (pain) because you see things that you don’t have and you want them. Or you have an experience and you want to re-create it exactly so you try over and over again.

BUT.. how can you live in the modern world, be motivated to pursue goals that enrich you as a person, give you money that allows you to have some sort of social interaction with other human being etc.. if you don’t have this suffering. This craving is motivation. That is unless you are willing to give it all away.
How many “spiritual seekers” have wrestled with that one over the years.

The ignorance part is about not seeing the world as it really is.

o, it’s just one moment. And yes, I *am* trying to be difficult. It’s boxing. It’s chess. I am pushing you around the board, around the ring.

Yes that’s cool. There should be more of this on every site, including this one. Let’s put on the gloves and get to some insight.

Again, this is an assumption, not a fact. You can’t show me your “self”

Got me on that one. I don’t think anyone can actually locate their self, if they have on at all. But i think that it is important for people to keep some level of differentiation in their personality, some sense of me-ness.

I’ll tell you what the sign said, the sign said “KEEP ON MOVING”

AND

“We are all trying to find truth in man made fantasies”

something is out of harmony in everybody, all of the time.

This is an assumption.

You are a dynamic system.

This is an observable and more importantly actionable fact.

Isn’t pain beautiful,

Pain is beautiful, but that doesn’t mean I want to feel it. I don’t *want* to get punched in the face. But when it happens to me as a result of the choices I have made (stepping into the boxing ring, etc), then I ought not to run from it. I played several chess games today where I tried to only attack and not concern myself with defense. I lost more quickly and learned more quickly.

I think there needs to be some element of pain and internal conflict in order to motivate people.

Why?

Its one moment after another.

No, it’s just one moment. And yes, I *am* trying to be difficult. It’s boxing. It’s chess. I am pushing you around the board, around the ring.

Why does the self need to vanish into smoke

It does not “need” to…

The self is the core of you.

Again, this is an assumption, not a fact. You can’t show me your “self”

Believe me i have been down this road.

What did the sign say to the traveler?

Stop. Look only at this statement. It doesn’t matter what you disagree with. It matters that you see you have something inside of you that doesn’t agree. Something is out of harmony. I hereby prescribe reading the Bagavad Gita all in one dose, and then read it again until you get it. I heard Gandhi used to read it in prison and it gave him strength. I can see why.

Of course something is out of harmony, something is out of harmony in everybody, all of the time. You are a dynamic system. I agree that the most important thing is that people realize the elements that make them up, can identify them and then work out if they want to keep or reject that element.

I don’t see it as “best practice” to in hammer all of your internal states/programing into harmony…. Isn’t pain beautiful, Don’t u need friction to start a fire. I think there needs to be some element of pain and internal conflict in order to motivate people.

I’m not making any “point” and there are no levels. This isn’t a video game. This is life and it is happening to all of us all the time and right now. And you can choose how you want to experience it.

Life isn’t a video game, its all in how you perceive and react to events as they occur around. Its one moment after another.

No, it smashes the idea that you need to be an individual. In self-mastery, you master the Self until it vanishes in smoke

Why does the self need to vanish into smoke.. who wins when the self vanishes. The self is the core of you. Believe me i have been down this road.
Self mastery is a fantastic thing, mastering anything for the sake of mastery gives untold synergistic benefits.

Of course. But is a suicide run any less beautiful than the literature of the Samurai? No, both are amazing.

This is a point. Rewrite the sentence. Both the suicide run and the literature of the of the samurai are beautiful and amazing

Making it beautiful and poetic (or noble or just) is just another way for them to get people to adopt the ideology.

That, I believe, was the essence of Nietzche’s argument against Christianity as a slave religion, used to keep them dumb and happy. By so looking into that question though, Nietzche opened himself to the core experience of Christ Superman.

Then he died in a gutter of syphilis. Just one of many ways to live one’s life, all equally valid. What’s the matter here is the appreciation of one’s own suffering and perception of injustice. These are right feelings to have. They make the mortal moral. The mortal becomes immoral when you remove the “T” of the cross, and immortal when you add it back in.

I see your point, and at one level it certainly makes sense.

I’m not making any “point” and there are no levels. This isn’t a video game. This is life and it is happening to all of us all the time and right now. And you can choose how you want to experience it.

it makes you as an individual very strong.

No, it smashes the idea that you need to be an individual. In self-mastery, you master the Self until it vanishes in smoke.

However i still have something inside that doesn’t agree

Stop. Look only at this statement. It doesn’t matter what you disagree with. It matters that you see you have something inside of you that doesn’t agree. Something is out of harmony. I hereby prescribe reading the Bagavad Gita all in one dose, and then read it again until you get it. I heard Gandhi used to read it in prison and it gave him strength. I can see why.

However i still have something inside that doesn’t agree with people being used as pawns to make rich powerful wankers even more rich and powerful, fueled by the blood of their programmed robots.

Making it beautiful and poetic (or noble or just) is just another way for them to get people to adopt the ideology.

it could all just be about those in power in Feudal japan giving young men a reason to die for the warlord/Emperor , therefore increasing his power. Like indoctrinating fundamentalist fighters and suicide bombers.

It could be, but it is not.

Hey just remember with the way of the Samurai stuff that it could all just be about those in power in Feudal japan giving young men a reason to die for the warlord/Emperor , therefore increasing his power. Like indoctrinating fundamentalist fighters and suicide bombers.

Like to see where your train of thought develops from this post onwards.