No, we are not getting drawn into another sidelined conversation about this

I will try and respect your vision for this board going forward Tim, and I hope that includes this bit:

I try not to leave out pondering any part of the world around us, including the state of our cultural institutions, from the sphere of work of the self. Consideration of others/exterior consideration/in as out, out as in and so on does not stop at the individuals with whom we come into contact, but also to those who know those individuals, whom we do not have direct contact with, and outward/word and upword. As you have already mentioned Tim, we still have to function in this world, and that includes trying to understand the social structures to which ourselves and others are tethered and how they might affect us and our loved ones.
I don’t know if we can affect any true change within the overall functioning of this world, or if we are even supposed to try in any physically tangible way. Nevertheless, I think it is useful to at least consider it as an individual and in conversation with others.

I understand that a detailed analysis of this subject is for the most part a distraction here, at least for the present.

Humans are basically good if not yoked too and hypnotized by the psychopaths at the top.

Your technocracy appears to me as another socialist system with more bells and whistles. Again, it might work just fine for us, if people actually were able to make conscious choices, but because we cannot, a Technocracy is subject to the same old subjectivity of mechanicalness.

Contrary to what you think, it is not a belief system. It is not political, or religious.

Technocracy which I did not mention in the last post, is another way. I choose it because it fits with what I know about history, philosophy and religion.

I am familiar with lots of other kinds of ideas.

This may seem crude to you, but it not only seems sophisticated to me, it also, in my mind, is probably the only real alternative that will work.

Thanks for the suggestions though Ted, but I like and value my current horizons.

I have paddled around in the back waters of ideas for many decades.

Science is simple and direct. Philosophy, Religion, Poetry, Art, are all very interesting and fun. A good secular humane system of culture insures personal freedom, and would promote responsibility. Technocracy will do that.

We have to adopt a new system soon. The Adam Smith 18th century economic model, that has its roots in the 22nd B.C. Sumer tradition, with the Hammurabi codes thrown in will no longer work.

Disaster looms. Money no longer functions as a good moderator. It insures that all choices are made wrong, and those wrong choices pile up.

Tim actually is taking things that were once considered occult and applying them scientifically. At least that is where he seems to be going…. Breaking that algorithm in order to open our minds up to taking in new data is what this whole thing is all about.

Very succintly put, Ted!

I just blogged an entry, constructing a rough outline of how I put this all in context you may want to check it out.

Its like you don’t really get what Tim is saying other than that its related to the occult somehow, so then you go back and think how the technocracy authors you admire treated the ocult and then you present some canned response of how you think they would have replied.

You seem really stuck in a type algorithm.

Tim actually is taking things that were once considered occult and applying them scientifically. At least that is where he seems to be going.

Try opening your horizons a bit. I mean this in a kind way.

A simple and direct method is generally the best.

Agreed. And?

Actually that is not what was there. The full phrase was, : Know thyself as a human being and not as a God. —- Along with another phrase, : Nothing too much.

The period of the occult in transferring knowledge is gone now. At one time you could be skinned alive or burnt for questioning authority. Now you can post real ideas on the internet without resorting to putting on layers and layers of extraneous information.

The occult served its purpose. Science and straight forward sharing information is a far better method to change society, than relying on outdated, confusing, and scam like concepts, to try and teach any ‘truths’

The occult always promises everything, and often delivers nothing.

Religion is occult personified. Religion is always based on bigotry.

A simple and direct method is generally the best.

So if you go 2x a week, you must attend for 7 weeks before you even begin to learn the form! Not for the impatient or faint of heart.

But you do get to learn proper form, controlled breathing, and wear the cool black uniform Fresh delicious green tea is served afterwards. The ID school is like going back in time - you go up creaky wooden stairs to a large old training room surrounded by weaponry and banners. They have the honor of performing the Lion dance every new year.

Of course there is much in the canonical scriptures which mention these archons of vain imaginings as well:

2 Corinthians 10:4, “For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strongholds; Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ.”

but even the tongue can be our worst enemy which “setteth on fire the course of nature” in its vainity. better to be used for blessing.

those blind spots are killers to, which is another reason, as you say, why we need other people, and community to belong to. If they care, loved ones help us see - or its the blind leading the blind.

diet and breathing of course are influencial, but I think the simple stretching and toning of our bodies are central to health and wholeness. I’ve done Taiji for awhile (Tim I’ll tell you about the Seattle Kung Fu Tai chi club sometime), and it’s interesting how staying on your feet can be just as beneficial to get down on the floor Yoga, and allows for simple self-regulation of the organs, rather than specific manipulation. Not sure what’s best, or if there’s a difference, for the body of the western european, but some is better than none if you have time for that sort of thing (plus push hands is cool - if I ever work up to that, then sword styles too).

Anyone ever take a free yoga class or anything?

How about before sleep trying out progressive relaxation, where you lie prone, feet & hands apart. Starting at one end of the body (heard it done from both ends) sense/feel the bones, sinews and skin of each small area gradually relax while moving up (or down) the body. I go feet, legs, body, hands, arms, neck, head.
Then just breath/pray and sleep.
Each area feels both heavy and light at the same time, and gives a good sense of your material structure and body awareness.

Jesus mentioned the certain breed of unclean spirits which *only* come out with “prayer and fasting.”

Fasting is proper as a type of emptying, and goes for habits as well as just food.
Supplication is likewise a “pouring out.”

Emptying is important for healing. This goes along with your “childs resistance to callousness.” While the child remains clean and innocent due to the constant emptying, releasing, reliance upon the most high, the calloused in contrast, gets tough, and dirty and scarred, by holding on, hunkering down, and not forgiving. The salt gets bitter and the sweet becomes rancid.

And it all comes down to sacrifice, and what are we sacrificing for?
That seems to be the next question. Ya gotta serve somebody …

It took quite some time of observation to finally witness this, as in me it is very subtle.

And I owe it all to Chinese balls… Thank You!

Haah. Mixed jeans.

Gurdjieff did a lot with movement, too– it kind of looks like a Sufi/Tai-Chi combo. There’s a big industry surrounding it right now, but I think ol’ Gurdjieff had a lot of good stuff to say.

Ya, I think he would laugh at the standardization (and Industrialization) of his “movements”. He knew that this type of thing would only flourish with the fluidity and liberalization of communication in his future so that people could see and understand the diversity outside of their own little isolated communities. Tim and others are now taking this idea, the habituation of non-habituation with resulting drilling down to and then strengthening of individual essence, to levels not previously possible on a larger scale. Perpetual resistance to godmitisation and growth through this freedom. Elimination of rolling resistance by changing the analog spirit shape from pyramid to sphere (that always helps to jog my vision).

The folks that take the old revolutionary ideas then ossify them are just following the same old path with just a modified language surrounding it.

Oh, that and the whole “everybody who doesn’t get this is stupid” thing.

Here’s a link:

http://www.gurdjieff-movements.net/

http://dearcomputer.nl/gir/?q=whirling...dervishes&s=4&b=Rip+Google%21
Google Image Ripper v.0.2.4

I guess these similar experiences we’ve had with the preprioception stuff, just goes to show how people should trust their instincts and innate wisdom about things.

I read the Alexander website and it looks like the Author systemetized some techniques I kind of discovered in more of a haphazard kind of hit or miss way.

Yeah, that is exactly how I feel about it: which leads me to invest greater “authority” in it, because these are things which can be universally uncovered for and by oneself!

maybe I will try to work on it and write about it also.

Definitely do so! Want to get as many people cracking this one as possible, as there really seems to be something there: something which naturally belongs to all of us.

One of my next big written projects here will be to connect all of this to circus symbolism, and sort of the forgotten Western traditions of developing proprioceptive awareness. Circus seems to directly connect to yoga, alchemy, bardic traditions, development of the theatre and sacred drama, prophetic traditions, street performers, modern music and pop culture, etc. Will probably be a multi-part series, which I will then connect back to my whole thing about life being a musical…

A lot of people at PTG seem to hate him. I guess Lash just wrote a book of which Derrick Jensen wrote a forward, so that kind counts against him in my book, but I am still curious about him.

I used them to work on my co-ordination, he used them initially to overcome a stuttering problem.

I think its really fascinating. I’d like to sort out a lot of this stuff too. maybe I will try to work on it and write about it also.

http://www.metahistory.org/JLLBoucher.php

Also, I found another good “awareness” developing exercise last night. I am going to start compiling these all together pretty soon. They are all very simple. This one consists of putting on the television or a movie and imitating it. Whenever a facial expression appears on any of the actors, mimic that expression. Do the same thing with body movements and postures. It helps develop emotional expressiveness and the ability to more closely feel the connection between physical states and emotional states.

But she is really interesting. She has synesthesia also, which in interesting thing in an of itself. To her All notes on the paino have a color and all numbers have a personality.

http://www.jonathans-stories.com/

What you are saying about habit formation and unconscious awareness rings a lot of bells, though I am not at the moment entirely sure how to sort it all out. But there is something there.

PS, I was *never* good at sports as a child, even though I was pretty active. I feel like this had a big impact on my social development, not being able to play along well enough in all the “reindeer games”…

JP: I think this sort of interpretation also partially solves the “myth vs literal” problem people were having about the gnostic symbolism at your workshop: if these things describe proprioceptive awareness, then they are both mythically/psychologically valid AND describe literal processes within the body as well. That seems to be the premise of Sansonese’s Body of Myth, though I might be putting words into his mouth. I have a tendency to do that!

And hey! guess what… just 2 weeks ago I too started to learn how to juggle… and it has been a wonderful experience. Paying attention to my increasing ability to notice the intricacies of coordination and movement has been a treat. I have wondered how it might be helping other aspects of my life, and now these posts give me tons to think further about.

I think I have some insights into what you have compiled here, but not in a systematized way, because I have a “learning disability” that’s probably genetic. My Mother and My Mother’s Sister seem to have it too.

For me it was diagnosed as ADHD, with my Aunt its diagnosed as ADD and aspergers. But what it is is that we have a hard time forming unconscious habits. It took me a long time to learn the multiplication tables, and to do math and learn how to drive. I am kind of a “spaz” in a lot of ways. I never brush my teeth the same way twice. I do lots of things slow. I had developmental delays in co-ordination. I was put in a special Gym class. I think I caught up later. I wrestled in High school and college. I think I learned moves slower and because of that wasn’t as good, though. I relied on strength and determination, cardio. but it wasn’t enough to give me a winning record. My coach assumed I never wrestled in highschool, but actually I had.

So a lot of things I do, I do like I am experiencing them for the first time, over and over again. I do have a lot of habits though. But it doesn’t come as easily to me. I do notice that in my interactions with people, even going through a drive through, I am very conscious of the other person and its hard for me to slip into an unconscious role. I notice things about all the people I pass on the street and get overstimulated. So I get nervous in crowds.

I think I have a window into what you are saying. But I think self mastery takes things to a new level and that is where self discipline comes in. So I think its worth it. I am pretty excited about it and applaud you on compling all this stuff and being a guinea pig and leading the way.

You’re on an amazing roll, Tim.

Congrats on the new living situation, too.

Peace.

I know exactly what you are referring to. It is a slow circular free-form rotation of all joints. I’ve started doing it too!

Hah, ya. I’ve started to incorporate other things too besides the joint rotations, like recently I have incorporated sumo type posturing, the extreme face contortions and posturing like the Kiwi rugby team uses to intimidate their opponents at the beginning of their games (from traditional Maori war moves) and more recently trying to imitate some of the subtle and beautiful eye, hand and finger, leg and toe movements of Balinese dance (like legong)

I find myself craving this type of movement more and more and sometimes launch into it in places like the shower and elevator.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tvVdjMxSZxg

this is good stuff.

To be a philosopher is to keep unsullied and unscathed the divine spirit within him, so that it may transcend all pleasure and all pain, take nothing in hand without purpose and nothing falsely or with dissimulation, depend not on another’ actions or inactions, accept each and every dispensation as coming from the same Source as itself - and last and chief, wait with a good grace for death, as no more than a simple dissolving of the elements whereof each living thing is composed. If those elements themselves take no harm from their ceaseless forming and re-forming, why look with mistrust upon the change and dissolution of the whole? It is but Nature’s way; and in the ways of Nature there is no evil to be found.

Philosopher = lover of Wisdom/Sophia