thinking about this further, you might end up changing the system, but it will be because enough people have arrived at a critical mass of shared values as a result of internal change.

This is what these guys were all about:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Continental_congress

you could talk to people early on in their life, and maybe make some sort of desires inventory,

You need to do this constantly.

http://timboucher.tumblr.com/post/13515186
http://www.timboucher.com/journal/2007/08/29/intentaction-harmony/

let people learn skills for more than just one or two ways to make a living

Something like “ADULT APPRENTICESHIPS” has a nice ring to it. This of course closely connects to:

http://www.timboucher.com/journal/2006/07/15/open-source-teaching-clubs/
http://www.timboucher.com/journal/2007/09/17/creating-a-skills-bank/

Then people could switch jobs as one became boring.

Love this idea: you could have a pool of people who trade jobs the way some people trade cell phone contracts (which themselves resemble:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indentured_servant )

But how cool would that be if we had a labor pool of people who all had base skills in XYZ areas, and who could be plugged into jobs as needed and desired by employers who respected the shared value community models, and could even pay in complementary currencies, or at least partially!

Damn, the ideas are flowing. I can’t do all of this stuff myself. I need the help of everyone out there with all their ideas and energy. Find ways to make this stuff work on independent and small scales: make everyone money off it, abstract the business model out of it and teach others how to apply what you have learned.

thinking about this further, you might end up changing the system, but it will be because enough people have arrived at a critical mass of shared values as a result of internal change.

Something like that, but retooled to find one’s maximum enjoyment/work ratio through diversity and flexibility might be much more interesting.

I will have to learn more about your thought processes to see the value in this gap you speak of. I hope you will allow me to do that.

Haah! Ya, my statement was obtuse, sorry, what I would say in retrospect: “It appears that our views are quite divergent on this at the moment, I find that I have the most potential to learn in these types of situations.”

Let’s go talk to these hypothetical people. Let’s find out what they want and let’s work together to give it to them.

Yes, that is kind of what I am getting at. It would be neat, I think, if you could talk to people early on in their life, and maybe make some sort of desires inventory, and then let people learn skills for more than just one or two ways to make a living (including a semi-retired and retired category :>): just for fun say 10 or 20. Then people could switch jobs as one became boring. I think I got this ideas from Hakim Bey.

You cannot give someone freedom. As Lion Kimbro said to me today: You cannot wake up someone who is only pretending to be asleep!

that is a very helpful statement

No system needs to change. You need to change. That is, if you’d like to have things be different, you must start acting differently. Saying the system needs to change is asking everyone else to be different to suit you, which is bullshit.

I agree with this, it all starts with the individual if it is to be true change. I still wrestle with egg/chicken issues.

If the highway that brings much of your food to you breaks up, will you fix it?

I like this kind of thinking. What if we all said yes? Instead of waiting for someone else to come fix our problems, we sat down and marshalled the resources amongst ourselves to take care of them.

because there presently is a large gap in our thought proceseses here

I will have to learn more about your thought processes to see the value in this gap you speak of. I hope you will allow me to do that.

No it’s not if you are comfortable living in a cave, or a wood cabin without amenities or something like that.

I do not live in a cave without amenities. I live in a house with my friends. We drink and go to the movies and the grocery store.

that person may or may not want to be patching roads or picking fruit.

Let’s go talk to these hypothetical people. Let’s find out what they want and let’s work together to give it to them.

trying to give everyone as much freedom from dependency

You cannot give someone freedom. As Lion Kimbro said to me today: You cannot wake up someone who is only pretending to be asleep!

then the system has to be changed.

No system needs to change. You need to change. That is, if you’d like to have things be different, you must start acting differently. Saying the system needs to change is asking everyone else to be different to suit you, which is bullshit.

Why? Explain your reasoning.

If your roof starts leaking, will you replace it?
If the power goes out will you replace the neighborhood transformer?
If the highway that brings much of your food to you breaks up, will you fix it?
etc.

Seems self-evident to me, so this interchange becomes extra interesting to me, because there presently is a large gap in our thought proceseses here

No, it’s really *not* hard to break free from a “dependency-based society” - that’s what I’m saying.

See above. No it’s not if you are comfortable living in a cave, or a wood cabin without amenities or something like that.

the key point I’m trying to make with this piece is simply that: you can live outside the money-system and all the pointless and conflicting drives that most people live according to.

Yes, I agree absolutely. But if you still live within the comforts that the money system offer, you are doing so on someone elses back, and that person may or may not want to be patching roads or picking fruit.

If you are trying to give everyone as much freedom from dependency as possible then the system has to be changed. I think it could resemble something more like you keyed on:

part of our lives doing something like repairing pot holes, cleaning out sewers, throwing hay bales

If everyone lived this way, eventually no one could live this way.

Why? Explain your reasoning.

part of our lives doing something like repairing pot holes, cleaning out sewers, throwing hay bales

I like what you’re saying. This stuff is important and living the way I do has enabled me to take jobs like that when and where I want to and I have gained a lot from them!

Unfortunately most of us have been born into a dependency (dependency for our basic needs) based society, kind of hard to turn back the clock now.

No, it’s really *not* hard to break free from a “dependency-based society” - that’s what I’m saying. All it takes is pairing your life down to the essentials and creating recurring revenue streams to cover your costs. It’s stupid easy and I can teach people to do it.

The key though is in how you’re thinking about and approaching the world. That first needs to be reconfigured, which is what the SIX STRATAGEMS are designed to do.

The key point I’m trying to make with this piece is simply that: you can live outside the money-system and all the pointless and conflicting drives that most people live according to. And you don’t need to be a millionaire to do it: that belief is propagated by the money-system to keep you chained to those types of drives, and to believe that gaining more money is the only way to fulfill them. It is not. It’s not even a good or the most efficient way to achieve fulfillment in life.

I personally don’t see why everybody isn’t living this way

If everyone lived this way, eventually no one could live this way.

I think it works better at this time if we could spend part of our lives, living as you do (should one wish too live this way), and part of our lives doing something like repairing pot holes, cleaning out sewers, throwing hay bales or somesuch.

Unfortunately most of us have been born into a dependency (dependency for our basic needs) based society, kind of hard to turn back the clock now.