i have not lost the relationship with my client either. she has since contacted me and acknowledges my position regarding what happened.

frankly, my unconditional love for myself includes her safety and so i act in accordance with that.

it is a position that is tested regularly and it is well known in the psychology of therapy that feelings are transferred between client and therapist and vise versa and we as professionals are counceled on this in our training and support.

and julia, honour lasts longer too. if you do it right it lasts a lifetime.

i suppose i`m an honourable and righteous man. it is the clearest signal in the anglican message. being true to it can be difficult though.

this is the role he has chosen to enact in this world and if he wants something different he knows what he has to do. The rules are there to protect both parties and the progress of the profession as a whole.

This I think is a more elegant rebuttal to Lion’s points above, especially regarding the “40 year old virgin and the housewife who ain’t getting any” point. It doesn’t fucking matter if people are getting laid or not, or have been getting laid. The point is that people should live according to their intentions, because that is the fastest path to honesty and to the cessation of suffering. One of the ways in which we most effectively manifest our intentions is through the agreements we make with one another. And even if you have disagreements with the institution of marriage, it’s important to me to recognize the nature of that agreement and stick to it. Or else, if the agreement no longer suits either party, the agreement must be terminated.

But then, I also don’t see marriage as something to be entered into lightly with the understanding that if it doesn’t go the way you like it (ie, if you’re “not getting laid enough”), you should just end it. Marriage is raised above many other types of contracts in my eyes because it is a contract whose purpose is to act as a vessel for Love and for the bounty of emotions which other people enable us to experience within our lives. It’s not something you just throw away because you’re horny, have opportunity and you can’t control yourself.

The same is true for police depts. Immigrant communities suffer higher rates of crime because criminals know the residents are afraid to go to the police. When corrupt police are not dealt with this notion is reinforced.

I read an article about Pagan gatherings where they described the problem of policing themselves. It was hard won knowledge that every once in a while someone would claim to be part of their community in order to gain access to younger/significantly younger than legal girls/boys for sexual purposes. This damages their community. The freer than avarage sex has an intention behind it and preditory behavior isn’t the intention.

I don’t think it’s wrong to seek completion in others.

I’m not saying so much that it is “wrong” as that it simply doesn’t work. It always fails.

“Meaning” divorced from society (others) seems weak, to me.

I’m not sure where you’re deriving this out of what has been said so far.

When I hear this conversation, I hear “self” vs. “society.”

Could you elaborate on that as well?

The whole “nobility is independence” vs. “co-dependency.”

This I think is just wrong. We’re definitely not talking about that.

The brainwashing story says, “society is ripping you off, man; it’s just using you.”

Again, where is this coming from?

Living without restraints is fun in fiction and fantasy play, but when it comes down to real friends, known or otherwise, it’s just heartless.

Yeah, I don’t think we’re talking about living without restraints either.

because I have an open relationship with Amber,

If you’re not achieving completion in another person already, why would including more players in the picture help you do that?

have real arguments with the marriage/love system,

Love is not a system.

life deprived me for a couple decades of sex that I think I should have had.

So, “Life owes you sex” simply because you exist?

If the 40 year old virgin’s only opportunity is a married woman who’s not getting any at home, then clearly, to my judgment, they get to have sex.

“They get to have sex”? Sex is not a reward. And it should not be a matter of reconciling accounts. It is the primary act which humans are given to take part in the creative power of the Godhead itself.

The brainwashing story says, “society is ripping you off, man; it’s just using you.”

When I think of society as my friends, though, the arrangement suddenly doesn’t sound so abusive. Living without restraints is fun in fiction and fantasy play, but when it comes down to real friends, known or otherwise, it’s just heartless.

Myself, in alistair’s situation, I would have had the affair. (Though we don’t know yet whether he did or didn’t.) But that’s because I have an open relationship with Amber, have real arguments with the marriage/love system, and, oh yeah, life deprived me for a couple decades of sex that I think I should have had. (The “social karmic balance system.” If the 40 year old virgin’s only opportunity is a married woman who’s not getting any at home, then clearly, to my judgment, they get to have sex.)

get their own dose of the proud satisfaction and bragging rights that our society will award you for suffering

Hee, hee, hee. I’m just doing my best to keep men brainwashed.

and so the next few minutes ended our professional relationship, and being that she is married ended our physical one too.

hey, wait a minute! maybe he did bang her?!? What happened in those “few minnutes”? To end a physical relationship you have to have one no?

You can trace every element of the predetermined patterns of behavior in our romantic relationships directly to breeding, and controlling access to the supply of females. You may never reproduce, but if you’re living by society’s standards, you’re still walking the walk. The only reason we follow these rules is to keep the peace, and insure more breeding. All that “Be a Lady and be a Gentlemen” bullshit, is just a cleverly concealed way to distribute the sex within the pack. To be a monogamous man in our society is an admired thing only because we know it’s unnatural, and extremely difficult. We make the monogamous man a hero, and we guarantee praise to him, because we hope that other men will see him receive this praise, and strive to behave like that and get their own dose of the proud satisfaction and bragging rights that our society will award you for suffering, and avoiding your instincts… and not fucking my wife.
We will trick you into thinking that’s a desirable thing, because the alternative, you following your DNA and running around trying to fuck every woman you’re attracted to is dangerous. It’s threatening to me. You’re taking more than your share, and I’m afraid eventually you’ll get to my woman, or my daughter. Don’t be a scum bag, be a good man. Be a Norman Rockwell painting. Be an episode of “Walker Texas Ranger.”

The sexually frustrated man goes to bed every night with the satisfaction that even though he could, he never cheats on his wife. He is a good man. He is Russell Crowe in “Gladiator.” He is Nicholas Cage in “Family Man.” He takes satisfaction in knowing that he behaves just like his fake, media created, heroes. Heroes, who in real life, are probably fucking strippers and doing coke.

http://www.timboucher.com/journal/2005/01/14/joe-rogan-on-sex-porn-society/

so the next few minutes ended our professional relationship

You’re so cool. Honor is better than sex.

the coincedance.

a client admitted her attraction to me today.

i have been having similar feelings, and so the next few minutes ended our professional relationship, and being that she is married ended our physical one too.

celebacy has it`s merits.

the sheer noise of obligation in some people`s minds and fear of rejection makes the physical attraction a real issue between us.

it was very difficult to see her leave this morning.

We really don’t have ritual type stuff in our culture.

A culture is defined by its rituals. That there appears not to be any shows how deeply ingrained they are.

But I don’t know many people who want to live in a community.

So you don’t have any friends then?

I think we got into individualism, and then from individualism we went into commercialism.

But I don’t know many people who want to live in a community.

Even the intentional housing people don’t want to live in a community; They just do individualism really really close to each other, and occasionally eating with each other.

I don’t sense that pagan sense that I get when I hear Kiya talk about living in tribal Mali (Africa.)

“We’re gunna do what?!“

Britney Spears. It really leaves a gaping hole in our culture.

I’m not going to post a link to her vag shots, but it’s tempting for the purposes of illustration.

Also, I think this “stairway to Heaven” with sex & love is exactly what the Arthurian Legends and the Courtly Romances and Knights of the Round Table and Grail Quests are all about very directly, clothing it in symbolic form.

I think your totally right. What’s really a shame is that we’ve gotten rid of these ideas from our life for things like Britney Spears. It really leaves a gaping hole in our culture.

And this is so elegantly put:

I think there is kind of a stairway to heaven you can walk with sex drives. It starts with objectifying and idealism, then becomes crushes, loose sexual romantic love, purer romantic love, and then pure universal love, which doesn’t require sex.

The keyword being “pure universal love” doesn’t *require* sex: but it doesn’t necessarily need to negate it either. At that point sex can be a true celebration and divine event because it is not controlled or driven by anything but abundant joy.