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	<title>Comments on: Knights Templar, Hawala &#038; The Origins of Modern Banking</title>
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	<pubDate>Sun, 22 Nov 2009 13:53:51 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Carnival Culture 05: Le Chevalier - [tmbchr]â„¢</title>
		<link>http://www.timboucher.com/journal/2007/10/12/knights-templar-hawala-the-origins-of-modern-banking/comment-page-1/#comment-95298</link>
		<dc:creator>Carnival Culture 05: Le Chevalier - [tmbchr]â„¢</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 Jan 2008 20:20:35 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>[...] The Knights Templar and the Knights Hospitaller (also, Hospitalier) were two of the most influential military/religious orders, founded to protect and care for pilgrims. The Templars became so wealthy and powerful that the Church eventually disbanded and persecuted them as a threat to Papal power, but not before they laid the foundations for modern banking: [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] The Knights Templar and the Knights Hospitaller (also, Hospitalier) were two of the most influential military/religious orders, founded to protect and care for pilgrims. The Templars became so wealthy and powerful that the Church eventually disbanded and persecuted them as a threat to Papal power, but not before they laid the foundations for modern banking: [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Julia</title>
		<link>http://www.timboucher.com/journal/2007/10/12/knights-templar-hawala-the-origins-of-modern-banking/comment-page-1/#comment-86174</link>
		<dc:creator>Julia</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Oct 2007 00:20:31 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Just in time and only $8,300. 

http://www.usatoday.com/news/religion/2007-10-12-papers_N.htm?csp=34

&lt;blockquote&gt;Hiroshima is then the natural culmination of these thought patterns.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Another new conspiracy theory! An embarassment of riches already! So, what's the outcome of our current thought patterns?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Just in time and only $8,300. </p>
<p><a href="http://www.usatoday.com/news/religion/2007-10-12-papers_N.htm?csp=34" rel="nofollow"></a><a href='http://www.usatoday.com/news/religion/2007-10-12-papers_N.htm?csp=34'>http://www.usatoday.com/news/religion/2007-10-12-papers_N.htm?csp=34</a></p>
<blockquote><p>Hiroshima is then the natural culmination of these thought patterns.</p></blockquote>
<p>Another new conspiracy theory! An embarassment of riches already! So, what&#8217;s the outcome of our current thought patterns?</p>
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		<title>By: Tim Boucher</title>
		<link>http://www.timboucher.com/journal/2007/10/12/knights-templar-hawala-the-origins-of-modern-banking/comment-page-1/#comment-86144</link>
		<dc:creator>Tim Boucher</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Oct 2007 15:15:50 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Wow, that's nuts.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wow, that&#8217;s nuts.</p>
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		<title>By: speedbird</title>
		<link>http://www.timboucher.com/journal/2007/10/12/knights-templar-hawala-the-origins-of-modern-banking/comment-page-1/#comment-86132</link>
		<dc:creator>speedbird</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Oct 2007 08:51:54 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Huh, that's why it's called handshaking... :-)

The algebra and geometry thing is certainly interesting. These things have subtle and powerful effects, like ideas about the shape of the Earth and its place in the universe. Y'know, there's a school of thought that reckons WWII was actually all about quantum mechanics vs. relativity. Apparently Einstein's geometrical theory of smoothly curving spacetime was viewed with deep suspicion by the Nazis, a kind of inferior science of an inferior people. Hiroshima is then the natural culmination of these thought patterns.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Huh, that&#8217;s why it&#8217;s called handshaking&#8230; <img src='http://www.timboucher.com/journal/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>The algebra and geometry thing is certainly interesting. These things have subtle and powerful effects, like ideas about the shape of the Earth and its place in the universe. Y&#8217;know, there&#8217;s a school of thought that reckons WWII was actually all about quantum mechanics vs. relativity. Apparently Einstein&#8217;s geometrical theory of smoothly curving spacetime was viewed with deep suspicion by the Nazis, a kind of inferior science of an inferior people. Hiroshima is then the natural culmination of these thought patterns.</p>
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		<title>By: Lending, Secret Societies, Canon Law - Pop Occulture</title>
		<link>http://www.timboucher.com/journal/2007/10/12/knights-templar-hawala-the-origins-of-modern-banking/comment-page-1/#comment-86096</link>
		<dc:creator>Lending, Secret Societies, Canon Law - Pop Occulture</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Oct 2007 19:13:51 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>[...] Role of the Knights Templar and consequent secret societies in the origins of modern banking [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Role of the Knights Templar and consequent secret societies in the origins of modern banking [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Tim Boucher</title>
		<link>http://www.timboucher.com/journal/2007/10/12/knights-templar-hawala-the-origins-of-modern-banking/comment-page-1/#comment-86081</link>
		<dc:creator>Tim Boucher</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Oct 2007 15:35:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.timboucher.com/journal/2007/10/12/knights-templar-hawala-the-origins-of-modern-banking/#comment-86081</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;      just think awhile about the emphasis on secret means for freemasons to identify each other securely.
&lt;/blockquote&gt;


See:

http://www.timboucher.com/journal/2007/09/15/freemason-electronic-data-handshakes-and-passcodes/
http://www.timboucher.com/journal/2007/09/14/manners-are-ritual-value-exchanges/</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>      just think awhile about the emphasis on secret means for freemasons to identify each other securely.
</p></blockquote>
<p>See:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.timboucher.com/journal/2007/09/15/freemason-electronic-data-handshakes-and-passcodes/" rel="nofollow"></a><a href='http://www.timboucher.com/journal/2007/09/15/freemason-electronic-data-handshakes-and-passcodes/'>http://www.timboucher.com/journal/2007...tronic-data-handshakes-and-passcodes/</a><br />
<a href="http://www.timboucher.com/journal/2007/09/14/manners-are-ritual-value-exchanges/" rel="nofollow"></a><a href='http://www.timboucher.com/journal/2007/09/14/manners-are-ritual-value-exchanges/'>http://www.timboucher.com/journal/2007...4/manners-are-ritual-value-exchanges/</a></p>
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		<title>By: speedbird</title>
		<link>http://www.timboucher.com/journal/2007/10/12/knights-templar-hawala-the-origins-of-modern-banking/comment-page-1/#comment-86073</link>
		<dc:creator>speedbird</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Oct 2007 15:02:20 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&#62; secret societies and the birth of modern science

I read a good book on this called 'The Invisible College', author Robert Lomas. But banking fits the profile too: just think awhile about the emphasis on secret means for freemasons to identify each other securely.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&gt; secret societies and the birth of modern science</p>
<p>I read a good book on this called &#8216;The Invisible College&#8217;, author Robert Lomas. But banking fits the profile too: just think awhile about the emphasis on secret means for freemasons to identify each other securely.</p>
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		<title>By: Tim Boucher</title>
		<link>http://www.timboucher.com/journal/2007/10/12/knights-templar-hawala-the-origins-of-modern-banking/comment-page-1/#comment-86071</link>
		<dc:creator>Tim Boucher</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Oct 2007 14:23:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.timboucher.com/journal/2007/10/12/knights-templar-hawala-the-origins-of-modern-banking/#comment-86071</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;It HAD to be Knights, Tim. Do you understand? The code of conduct, the ethics, the martial training, the ability to keep secrets, the integrity, etc. And also, it had to be a religion.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Wow, you're right. 100%. I have the book "The Rosicrucian Enlightenment" but I have not yet read it. It's one of the few researched links I've seen between secret societies and the birth of modern science &#038; the Enlightenment. But I've never seen anybody connect in a historically authentic way those guys to the origins of banking as well, the rise of the merchant class, and the modern system of nation states.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>It HAD to be Knights, Tim. Do you understand? The code of conduct, the ethics, the martial training, the ability to keep secrets, the integrity, etc. And also, it had to be a religion.</p></blockquote>
<p>Wow, you&#8217;re right. 100%. I have the book &#8220;The Rosicrucian Enlightenment&#8221; but I have not yet read it. It&#8217;s one of the few researched links I&#8217;ve seen between secret societies and the birth of modern science &#038; the Enlightenment. But I&#8217;ve never seen anybody connect in a historically authentic way those guys to the origins of banking as well, the rise of the merchant class, and the modern system of nation states.</p>
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		<title>By: speedbird</title>
		<link>http://www.timboucher.com/journal/2007/10/12/knights-templar-hawala-the-origins-of-modern-banking/comment-page-1/#comment-86070</link>
		<dc:creator>speedbird</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Oct 2007 09:44:19 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>This is an enormous subject. I mean, you start with the Templars and all of a sudden you've got the Grail legend, Good King Richard, nasty Prince John and the whole legend of Robin Hood who stole from the rich to give to the poor. And it's all about wealth...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is an enormous subject. I mean, you start with the Templars and all of a sudden you&#8217;ve got the Grail legend, Good King Richard, nasty Prince John and the whole legend of Robin Hood who stole from the rich to give to the poor. And it&#8217;s all about wealth&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Svenson</title>
		<link>http://www.timboucher.com/journal/2007/10/12/knights-templar-hawala-the-origins-of-modern-banking/comment-page-1/#comment-86067</link>
		<dc:creator>Svenson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Oct 2007 05:02:23 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>This post is gold. I'm not even sure where to start with it. 

Yes it feels like a direct hit to me as well. My head is kind of reeling from taking it all in.  I think we really need to think about religion as a social phenomenon in considering the origins of banking...

It HAD to be Knights, Tim. Do you understand? The code of conduct, the ethics, the martial training, the ability to keep secrets, the integrity, etc. And also, it had to be a religion. Not that musty old Christianity that turned away from science during the dark ages, but the new, fresh (400 years old as of the knights templar) faith that was studying things like math and science during the same time. It just makes too much sense.

I'm searching for words for the panorama of significance I see before me in all this, and its difficult. Religion was a necessary social precondition for the advent of banking systems though, I can see that. And Islam was a necessary catalyst, in the end it brought us fully into the enlightenment before it was surpassed:

&lt;blockquote&gt;At the same time, the integration of algebraic thinking, acquired from the Islamic world over the previous two centuries, and geometric thinking which had dominated Western mathematics and philosophy since at least Eudoxus, precipitated a scientific and mathematical revolution. Sir Isaac Newton's greatest claim to prominence came from a systematic application of algebra to geometry, and synthesizing a workable calculus which was applicable to scientific problems. T&lt;/blockquote&gt;

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Age_of_Enlightenment

The great mystery to me is, what was the religious orientation of the Knights Templar? I sense that religion was important because I believe that faith was essential to establishing the amount of trust that made the original hawala system work, (and thus the Knights system) but they were "heretics" in the sense that they turned from Christianity in cultivating a Muslim idea, which they obviously did in some secrecy. These knights must have had religious ideas that deviated from the mainstream religious thought of their times. Could this TRULY be the origins, at least ideologically of the Masonic belief system, where numerous religions are tolerated? That would be some interesting shit, seeing masons tied to the origins of banking...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This post is gold. I&#8217;m not even sure where to start with it. </p>
<p>Yes it feels like a direct hit to me as well. My head is kind of reeling from taking it all in.  I think we really need to think about religion as a social phenomenon in considering the origins of banking&#8230;</p>
<p>It HAD to be Knights, Tim. Do you understand? The code of conduct, the ethics, the martial training, the ability to keep secrets, the integrity, etc. And also, it had to be a religion. Not that musty old Christianity that turned away from science during the dark ages, but the new, fresh (400 years old as of the knights templar) faith that was studying things like math and science during the same time. It just makes too much sense.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m searching for words for the panorama of significance I see before me in all this, and its difficult. Religion was a necessary social precondition for the advent of banking systems though, I can see that. And Islam was a necessary catalyst, in the end it brought us fully into the enlightenment before it was surpassed:</p>
<blockquote><p>At the same time, the integration of algebraic thinking, acquired from the Islamic world over the previous two centuries, and geometric thinking which had dominated Western mathematics and philosophy since at least Eudoxus, precipitated a scientific and mathematical revolution. Sir Isaac Newton&#8217;s greatest claim to prominence came from a systematic application of algebra to geometry, and synthesizing a workable calculus which was applicable to scientific problems. T</p></blockquote>
<p><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Age_of_Enlightenment" rel="nofollow"></a><a href='http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Age_of_Enlightenment'>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Age_of_Enlightenment</a></p>
<p>The great mystery to me is, what was the religious orientation of the Knights Templar? I sense that religion was important because I believe that faith was essential to establishing the amount of trust that made the original hawala system work, (and thus the Knights system) but they were &#8220;heretics&#8221; in the sense that they turned from Christianity in cultivating a Muslim idea, which they obviously did in some secrecy. These knights must have had religious ideas that deviated from the mainstream religious thought of their times. Could this TRULY be the origins, at least ideologically of the Masonic belief system, where numerous religions are tolerated? That would be some interesting shit, seeing masons tied to the origins of banking&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: p</title>
		<link>http://www.timboucher.com/journal/2007/10/12/knights-templar-hawala-the-origins-of-modern-banking/comment-page-1/#comment-86065</link>
		<dc:creator>p</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Oct 2007 02:47:50 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>This is really intriguing to me. &lt;a href="http://www.lagunajournal.com/economic.htm" rel="nofollow"&gt;This fearmongering rant&lt;/a&gt;  says with no cite that hawala developed in response to the Templars' banking network, so that's another possibility.

I see lots of people asserting this link online, but no cites!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is really intriguing to me. <a href="http://www.lagunajournal.com/economic.htm" rel="nofollow">This fearmongering rant</a>  says with no cite that hawala developed in response to the Templars&#8217; banking network, so that&#8217;s another possibility.</p>
<p>I see lots of people asserting this link online, but no cites!</p>
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