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Religious Prohibitions Against Preserving The Moment
Are there any? What religious system do they exist within? On what grounds do they rest?
The best Biblical example I can think of is the story of manna: there was always enough of it to eat from, but if you saved more of it than you could use, it would rot and produce worms.
Then there’s the graven images argument. In the movie Stargate they reference that as well: that writing had been forbidden.
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October 29th, 2007 at 4:26 am
CS Lewis riffs on this in Perelandra / Out of the Silent Planet, I’m sure.
October 29th, 2007 at 12:44 pm
Been a really long time since I read those. Can you give me a hint?
October 29th, 2007 at 4:44 pm
There’s a big long sequence with these people who live in a kind of Eden upon a floating island. Their life, they have been told, will be bliss so long as long as they don’t step off the island onto solid ground. There’s a long conversation with our protagonist about how this is like the desire for the colonisation of space - in fact, like any desire to hold onto anything at all.
Mind you, no-one ties theological knots quite like CS Lewis so this sort of thing has to be approached with a degree of caution.
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The whole graven images thing: somewhere there’s a passage about how people who make idols of wood and brass, that can neither see nor hear, become like them - they become what they behold, or something like that… but I wouldn’t know where to find it. Anyone?
October 29th, 2007 at 5:14 pm
Wow, I would love to hear that passage about graven images! Thanks
October 29th, 2007 at 9:10 pm
My Mom found this. There are a lot that are close but this is the best fit. The passage that clinched it was; “every founder is confounded by the graven image”. “people who make idols of wood and brass, that can neither see nor hear,” is in Revelations 9:20 but the context doesn’t seem to match your point.
Jeremiah 51: 16 When he uttereth his voice, there is a multitude of waters in the heavens; and he causeth the vapours to ascend from the ends of the earth: he maketh lightnings with rain, and bringeth forth the wind out of his treasures.
17 Every man is brutish by his knowledge; every founder is confounded by the graven image: for his molten image is falsehood, and there is no breath in them.
18 They are vanity, the work of errors: in the time of their visitation they shall perish.
October 29th, 2007 at 9:24 pm
Thanks! That’s a really interesting passage but doesn’t currently fit the thrust I am going for. (All hail human search agents!)
To tip my hand, what I am looking for is religious law precedents which could be adapted in the modern world to prevent or legally disallow all-encompassing surveillance upon an individual who is ascribed to that faith. According to canon law, I am officially Roman Catholic, so that tradition for me personally would be of the most use - but examples from other religions would be extraordinarily helpful as well to start new creative conversations around these subjects.
October 29th, 2007 at 9:51 pm
This is a good anti-mark-of-the-beast scripture but it wouldn’t hold up in court and most religions aren’t battle hardened enough to take it as their own. We’re still looking for other good ones for you.
Ezekiel 9: 3 And the glory of the God of Israel was gone up from the cherub, whereupon he was, to the threshold of the house. And he called to the man clothed with linen, which had the writer’s inkhorn by his side;
4 And the LORD said unto him, Go through the midst of the city, through the midst of Jerusalem, and set a mark upon the foreheads of the men that sigh and that cry for all the abominations that be done in the midst thereof.
5 And to the others he said in mine hearing, Go ye after him through the city, and smite: let not your eye spare, neither have ye pity:
6 Slay utterly old and young, both maids, and little children, and women: but come not near any man upon whom is the mark; and begin at my sanctuary. Then they began at the ancient men which were before the house.
October 29th, 2007 at 10:54 pm
This is the best we coud come up with. There’s not much in the Bible that would be a good point with a non-Christian. Canon Law might have possibilties and I’d be interested in what you discover about that.
Romans 14: 5, 22 + 23;
5 One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.
22 Hast thou faith? have it to thyself before God. Happy is he that condemneth not himself in that thing which he alloweth.
23 And he that doubteth is damned if he eat, because he eateth not of faith: for whatsoever is not of faith is sin.
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=rom%2014;&version=9;
This chapter seems to be talking about vegetarianism but I think it’s about showing you your own will and how to develop true free will in yourself and others. Basically, if I truly believe something destroys my relationship with God then it does. I’m not going to condemn you for your beliefs so don’t condemn me for mine. It’s not quite a legal principle but it’s a good start.
October 30th, 2007 at 1:39 am
Doesn’t matter. We’re just talking about civil authorities and jurisdictions of legal systems. I’m not interested in “convincing” anyone or changing anyone’s mind about it. I just want technicalities.
But underlying principles and interpretations obviously are tremendously helpful and otherwise personally valuable.
October 30th, 2007 at 3:00 am
Psalm 115 (after much searching!)
Their idols are silver and gold, the work of men’s hands.
They have mouths, but they speak not: eyes have they, but they see not:
They have ears, but they hear not: noses have they, but they smell not:
They have hands, but they handle not: feet have they, but they walk not: neither speak they through their throat.
They that make them are like unto them; so is every one that trusteth in them.
There’s other stuff around the topic: storing up treasure in heaven, all is vanity etc. Google sent me to 2 Corinthians 3 which is kinda interesting, telling against writing too much down. And of course ‘render unto Caesar’. That word ‘render’ has my head full of thoughts right now.
‘Become what you behold’ seems to be ascribed to McLuhan… oops. But I’m sure it’s a Biblical thread originally. I dredge up these obscure references from all over.
October 30th, 2007 at 12:46 pm
Sounds like robots! Maybe I’m only thinking that cause I emailed Marvin Minsky interview questions last night though.
In what sense, like ‘rendering’ graphics?
Thanks for the assistance!
October 30th, 2007 at 9:03 pm
Render
Middle English rendren, from Old French rendre, to give back, from Vulgar Latin *rendere, alteration of Latin reddere (influenced by prēndere, to grasp) : red-, re-, re- + dare, to give.
October 31st, 2007 at 5:51 am
> Sounds like robots!
Sounds like money… all the silver and gold in my pocket has eyes, mouth, ears, nose… and the paper stuff has hands and feet too.
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Render: the same word for ‘render unto Caesar’, rendering graphics, and or course /’rendition’ meaning ‘performance’/. Performance as ‘giving back’?… In computer terms ‘rendering’ to me means more generally any time that one form of information is converted into another on the fly, usually working the processor hard. Which begins to sound like ‘performance’. Playing a videogame is different to watching a video clip because the game is rendered on the fly. Listening to a live rendition is different to listening to a recording because it’s rendered on the fly… some extra action is taking place.
Never mind the phenomenal PC hijacking of ‘extraordinary rendition’…
So I’m beginning to think that rendering is really important.