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9/11 Is Meaningless
I remember pontificating about this while tanked last night, but don’t remember all the details totally. The point was basically that 9/11 has no meaning. It doesn’t matter who did it or why. Meaning is always projected after the fact. Who controls the story about what happened controls the meaning and interpretation.
It seemed a lot deeper while messed up, but oh well.
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March 13th, 2008 at 12:51 pm
This morning I was listening to a podcast from a recent presentation at SXSW (“Managing the Media Blur”) in which someone said the only way to tell the difference between a civil war and revolution is to ask “who won?” Not that this does or doesn’t apply to 9/11 but the point seemed relevant to this just the same.
All other SXSW podcasts from this year can be found here, and previous years are available too if you dig a bit. Highly recommended.
March 13th, 2008 at 5:06 pm
It’s a good dividing line, at least for me personally.
I learned the night before 9/11 from my good friend (and CEO boss) that I would be losing my job the next day. Was told I could come in on 9/12 to pick up my stuff, as I asked not to be there on 9/11 when half the company was let go.
I woke up on 9/11 at my usual “work” time. Turned on the old boob tube and watched the Katie/Matt coverage from the first “report that a small aircraft hit the WTC” with no camera footage yet and on through the “finale” shot of the second tower coming down.
9/11 was a big turn in consciousness for me. It may be meaningless for some, but definitely not me.
March 13th, 2008 at 6:50 pm
Exactly Tim!
It is 11:00am in the morning here in Sydney and I am not ‘tanked’. Despite this potential cognitive impediment your observation is white hot in its clarity.
The proponents of holographic images, controlled demolitions and missiles do not control the larger story. This also goes for more sober explanations of ‘blowback’, etc.
Who has the greatest agency to project meaning on the event and who is deriving value from that meaning?
What meaning could be projected on 9/11 that would result in win/win for all?
March 14th, 2008 at 2:09 am
Eckart Tolle does a brilliant interview entitled “Even the Sun Will Die” which was recorded on 9/11. I downloaded the MP3 and have listened to it numerous times and commend it, partilarly in light of this post and its comments.
After work tonight (1 hour to go) I will be tanked at the local, discussing the meaning of it all, with like minds.
March 14th, 2008 at 4:59 am
The idea that our validations and meanings essentially post-hoc is mentioned in this article on religious morality I read recently. Admittedly, it’s a passing reference, but in context, it seems cognizant with the Buddhist idea of Dependent Arising; in terms of our experiences and perceptions (usually, IME) having more to do with causes and conditions rather than the raw experience itself.
On the other hand, the idea you’re suggesting is very much in line with the post-modern fallacy–that there is no ultimate truth. Hell, perhaps you were just in a Green mode last night. although Zac is the only guy I’ve seen who’s mentioned the Green-value meme / postmodernist connection, that I’ve seen.
Cheers for your efforts, Tim.
March 14th, 2008 at 10:14 am
No, I’m not saying there is no Truth. That’s obviously not “true”. If there’s no truth, then there’s no reality and no existence.
The truth seems to be that the towers did indeed fall down and that some sequence of events preceded it and followed it, and that actors were rushed on and off the stage. What it “means” though is irrelevant, or at least dependent on one’s own perceptual experience of it. And each person’s perceptual experience of it is colored by a whole host of factors: many of which are carefully controlled, designed and manipulated to implant directly or suggest certain interpretations - each of which is meant to trigger a chain of if > then causal sequences within the mind, which become cultural justifications for larger actions.
It’s the same thing with any event really: the Crucifixion or with stubbing your toe and shattering a glass of wine as a result. None of those events have any intrinsic “meaning” - except what we give to them. Probably the most important thing about something like 9/11 is that it is a SHARED REFERENCE POINT. Everybody experienced it. Everybody knows about it. Everything beyond that is negotiation of interpretations, like all life’s moments.
March 14th, 2008 at 10:36 am
I think saying 911 is “meaningless” is a way to sound all hip and post modern while still being non-controversial and politically correct.
March 14th, 2008 at 11:23 am
I don’t know what that statement is supposed to mean.
March 14th, 2008 at 11:23 am
You’re eating a bowl of popcorn and drop a kernel on the floor. Is that kernel happy to be spared a chomping death? or is it upset that it won’t be joining its brothers and sisters on their trip to the promised land? Take your pick.
In the end, all this theoretical poking seems nowhere near as interesting as the experience that lead to all this in the first place.
March 14th, 2008 at 11:56 am
What I took from 9/11 was that bad shit happens all over the place, and that it happened here as well. There’s wars and bombings all over the world, and we’re no different than the people to whom those things happen every day. Being the first attack against US civilians on US soil (which is how is it perceived by most people despite any conspiracy theories), it knocked us off our high horse, so to speak.
Isn’t that what the Tower card of the Tarot stands for anyway?
March 14th, 2008 at 12:42 pm
911 stopped being a living breathing thing and became a historical reference point. It’s meaning split off into infinity therefore it became relatively or locally zero. Now it’s a topic for historians to revive and make locally meaningful again via economic theory, social research, etc.
However, it’s not exactly meaningless if you’ve an Iraqi who lost your home and family, etc. It depends on perspective. The meaning for us now is the future because we have a future to look forward to. That meaning depends on your perspective too of course.
I don’t practice ritual magic (though I probably should) but from what I’ve read it seems to me this event and the future wrapped around it, is like some sort of eclipse ritual. A Sun cult (various Western powers) making war on a Moon cult (Islam). If I knew more about this subject I’m sure I would have a lot more to say.
March 14th, 2008 at 1:55 pm
ritual magicians should realise that thier banishing circles are never as strong as they hoped they would be……
the message i got from 9/11 was to stop consuming media.
it is a delivery system for terrible feelings that can never be satisfactorily rationalised.
the if > then operation always works. it is precise and accurate.
if i stop watching media that delivers awful feelings, then the awful feelings go away.
nice.
unless you need to have awful feelings that can never be satisfactorily rationalised, in which case………
March 15th, 2008 at 1:27 pm
What I said was extremely blunt and to the point. No ambiguity there. I think the “appeal” of playing around with the idea of 911 being meaningless, is that it seems kind of a cool esoteric way to look at it, without having to take any kind of a stance.
I find it annoying. Ran Prieur kind of followed this train of thought. At first he seemed like he was taking a position and then he kind of retreated into this train of thought.
Acts of violence/war etc. are not meaningless. They can be spun in various ways. But the dead people are still dead and some one is guilty of murder. Human lives are not meaningless.
There is a risk in talking about 911, if your position is that elements of the American establishment are behind it. Maybe its wise not to talk about it then.
But saying its meaningless is like saying nobody did it. Its like taking a middle position, in order to be all things to all people. Its like saying “I’m a rebel, a bohemian, an intellectual, a philosopher. Not part of the establishment, but not a conspiracy theorist either.”
So what? Its better to say you don’t know what it means or who is behind it (which if you take any time at all researching it, certian things become obvious, such as the obvious fact that controlled demolition was invlolved)
So anyway, nothing really against you but this viewpoint really annoys me.
March 15th, 2008 at 9:40 pm
http://ranprieur.com/archives/014.html
March 15th, 2008 at 9:47 pm
it was also a trance induction into a highly suggestable state whereby the next message becomes imprinted into the psyche……..
my hope is that we are the some of the ones still resisting the imprint.
March 16th, 2008 at 5:20 pm
This is what 9/11 means:
It means the beginning of the end of America.
It means the American experiment in democracy is over and it was a failure.
It means America has been ruled for a long time, not by people with American ideals but by a plutocratic oligarchy that has gotten everything it wanted and is now engaged in a downward spiral that will bring the World economy with it.
It means our country is now the “bad guys” whereas in WWII we were the good guys.
It means America is dead.
March 16th, 2008 at 5:21 pm
All this “multiple rerality tunnel” stuff is bullshit. In My humble opinion
March 16th, 2008 at 5:27 pm
I don’t mean to come across as so harsh, but 9/11 is not that hard to figure out on an intellectual level. but it is on a visceral level. But some one needs to call it as they see it.
Its not a UFO sighting. Its not bigfoot. Its the death of a dream. of an ideal. Its like a death.
Its somthing that should be mourned and moved on from. All this clever sounding metaphysical bullshit is the denial stage of morning.
Its like having a love one die and concluding that no one is dead because life is just a dream.
Its understandable but pretty stupid in the final analysis.
March 16th, 2008 at 5:52 pm
Like an eclipse! It’s real, not a phantom. Then it’s over and the world moves on. The priests who were able to predict eclipses and time their ceremonies to them got real power from that. My question is why do we find the replaying of natural phenomena so moving? It’s the intersection between the real and the spiritual that’s interesting. Why are we so moved by this ritual and not by other destruction. A few buildings are not really important. They were real estate white elephants anyway. Our reaction is what’s important and what’s been mined for power.
March 17th, 2008 at 7:43 am
if one sees that there are many more than one reality, then the political and economic reality that ted points out is but one of many realities that can be used to describe what occured on 9/11.
natural phenomena is moving because of the sheer volume of energy processed. millions flock to niagara falls to feel it. i have stood on a glacier in the alps and felt the rush of trillions of tons of ice slowly grinding the side of a mountain…..
…..and i have reached into the gentle pulse of a butterflies beating wings.
no matter what our “meta-filter” we will derive our own unique meaning from whatever event we percieve and , of course the dogmatic materialist filter will demand that everyone see the same thing, and that`s ok too……unless they are armed.
robert anton wilson`s tunnel realities are not airy-fairy hippy shit either. they are founded on quantum mechanical observations and korzybzki`s general semantics.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_semantics
korzybzki didn`t intend his work to cure pathology, merely to help people think more clearly and avoid traps due to ambiguity in language….though avoiding linguistic traps is part of a healthy breakfast.
March 17th, 2008 at 11:15 am
I can’t think of anything to say that wouldn’t be very impolite.
March 17th, 2008 at 6:21 pm
Don’t let that stop you! You’re among friends. If you can’t offend your friends who can you offend?
March 18th, 2008 at 2:06 am
he said impolite…..not offensive. though there may have been the suggestion or hint or threat possibly.
difficult to say, though one could infer.
very impolite…….impolitic possibly?
March 28th, 2008 at 12:33 pm
[…] I recently wrote something off-hand about 9/11 being “meaningless”, which I took a certain amount of flak over. Been thinking about it ever since and I wanted to update on that line of thinking. […]